Stele with VI is PS9 so alongside vader you've got enough power to strip most ships of shields but then points start to get tight.

Yeah that was the problem I was getting. Vader + Rexlar tends to be right around 80 pts. Rexlar without HLC is a waste and Vader without EU and Predator really doesn't use him right.

Plus, I'd really like to fly Maarek with PTL and Mk2 as well.

This is what it looks like if you try to fit Maarek, Vader, and Rexlar in a 100 pts list...

Rexler Brath (37)

Push the Limit (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Darth Vader (29)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Maarek Stele (27)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If you give Vader and Maarek ATC, you have a total of 5 pts to spend, which I spent on VI, PTL, and Mk2.

Having two ships not wanting to spend TL I would use Vessery instead.

But what about the crits? Won't someone please think about the crits?!

If only there was an EPT/feature that allowed a high Ps pilot to "hold action" and take his shot at a lower PS step. Rexy would be a god among men.

If only there was an EPT/feature that allowed a high Ps pilot to "hold action" and take his shot at a lower PS step. Rexy would be a god among men.

It could be called Decoy or something.

EPT: Patience 1 point.

During the combat phase the pilot may shoot at any pilot skill equal or under his own modified pilot skill.

Edit: Not sure i want a straight swap, this is a little more specialized.

Rexlar Brath + PTL + MKII

Cmdr. Alozen + Decoy + ATC

Vader + Determination + ATC

It could work.

Fel's Wrath + MK.II Engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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wait

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wait

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just kidding

Regarding defenders, the predator vs ptl debate is worth having.

Predator allows use when stressed or taking another action. In terms of action economy, you always get a mini target lock.

PTL allows a full target lock or flexibility to do focus+br for example if you already have a TL (from not using it the previous turn, or you're Vessery). Without boost or evade, ptl can be worthless if you don't need to barrel roll nor target lock. Another problem with PTL is that you have to clear stress the next turn or you're not gaining action economy over the long run.

Now with MkII, PTL is more viable as you add 6 green maneuvers to the dial. It is ALSO worth using with predator because it allows you to do a red turn followed by a green bank instead of a red turn followed by a green straight. And it makes you a lot more resilient against rebel captive, tactician, and R3-A2.

Before MkII, running Vess+Rex wasn't great synergy because Rexlar wanted a focus, Vessery needed the other ship to TL, and PTL just wasn't viable with only green straights. Now it actually works pretty well if you give Rex PTL and Vess VI, both with HLC, prockets, and MkII.

It's still not ideal though and I'd rather run Vessery grouped with a TIE Advanced with ATC or Kenkirk with the Emperor.

I'm wary of taking PTL on ships that don't either have a turret or green turns.

I'm wary of taking PTL on ships that don't either have a turret or green turns.

While a fair concern, the defender is in the unique position of being able to completely turn around while stressed. The ability to then use the 1 bank to clear stress and slow roll like they love is an amazing boon. Defenders don't mind 1 banking, and I think the action economy they can gain is not to be ignored for sure.

The trick with PTL is to not do it every single time if you don't have access to hard turns and boost/barrel roll. Even with a turret, if you push every turn you are going to make yourself rather predictable and easier to block.

With a Defender, you can PTL in the joust, f***ing K-turn (all ships get stressed anyway), then shed the stress with a plethora of maneuvers. Or be crazy and K-turn again...

edit: ****... ninja'd

I just wish Vessery can take EU + MKII. I want to run him with PTL and EU instead of a HLC.

The problem with Engine Upgrade on a Defender is that their action economy is already terrible, with the stress that you often have to keep for multiple turns and how terrible PtL would be on one, that spending your one action on boost is probably a bad idea.

This in addition to you already being 4-5 points in the hole for flying an overcosted ship.

This is a welcome upgrade. An additional one point on a Defender to make it playable is a pill I'm willing to swallow.

The trick with PTL is to not do it every single time if you don't have access to hard turns and boost/barrel roll. Even with a turret, if you push every turn you are going to make yourself rather predictable and easier to block.

With a Defender, you can PTL in the joust, f***ing K-turn (all ships get stressed anyway), then shed the stress with a plethora of maneuvers. Or be crazy and K-turn again...

edit: ****... ninja'd

I just wish Vessery can take EU + MKII. I want to run him with PTL and EU instead of a HLC.

My thinking is that if I'm not going to be using PTL almost every round and one of the actions that I'll probably end up taking when I do use it is a Target Lock, I'd just as soon take Predator.

Howlrunner

6x Academy Pilot

7x MK 2 Engines

97 points. Something on Howl, or a Black Squadron with DtF.

On Predator vs PTL, I'm firmly in the Predator camp for most circumstances, principally because of the moves that remain white even with the Mk2, the 3-turn and the K-turn. Interceptors and A-wings can make a green turn, and then boost, for a pretty substantial angle change on their guns. Defenders would only have a bank option to change direction, and no Advanced Sensors to help out. You also lose a bunch of the utility of that white K-turn. Sure, you can still use it while stressed, which is huge, but if you use it while stressed, it's not much different than a regular K-turn on an non-PTL ship. The white K-turn with Predator basically gives you 1.5 actions while K-turning, compared to 0 actions while K-turning if you used PTL a previous turn. Repeated K-turning is a tactic I like having in my back pocket, and I'd hate to be stuck doing it without an action. I don't think PTL is a bad choice, but I find myself taking K-turns and hard 3s too often to make me too comfortable with the stress.

On top of personal preference, if you run into weaponized stress builds, Predator keeps you punching pretty hard. PTL becomes dead weight.

Howlrunner

6x Academy Pilot

7x MK 2 Engines

97 points. Something on Howl, or a Black Squadron with DtF.

Why spend the points on the engines? I don't know that I've ever wished that my naked Academies had green 3 banks.

On Predator vs PTL, I'm firmly in the Predator camp for most circumstances, principally because of the moves that remain white even with the Mk2, the 3-turn and the K-turn. Interceptors and A-wings can make a green turn, and then boost, for a pretty substantial angle change on their guns. Defenders would only have a bank option to change direction, and no Advanced Sensors to help out. You also lose a bunch of the utility of that white K-turn. Sure, you can still use it while stressed, which is huge, but if you use it while stressed, it's not much different than a regular K-turn on an non-PTL ship. The white K-turn with Predator basically gives you 1.5 actions while K-turning, compared to 0 actions while K-turning if you used PTL a previous turn. Repeated K-turning is a tactic I like having in my back pocket, and I'd hate to be stuck doing it without an action. I don't think PTL is a bad choice, but I find myself taking K-turns and hard 3s too often to make me too comfortable with the stress.

On top of personal preference, if you run into weaponized stress builds, Predator keeps you punching pretty hard. PTL becomes dead weight.

One Case where it could be beneficial is when pairing him and a VI Vessery together,PTL would allow for a more Frequent switching of TLs. I would also like to bring up those times where when you don't need the reroll from predator and now you have that TL saved you can not push the next turn and still have the double modifier

I think it will mostly come down to what the rest of your list is as to which way you go (Yorr+FO, and Rexlar+PTL+Mk2 could be very intriguing)

Edit: Has anyone tried Vader with Engine Upgrade and Daredevil?

My go-to list before Scum came out was Boba Fett and Darth Vader. I usually put Engine Upgrade and Daredevil on Darth Vader and I liked it a lot. The one thing he was missing was the ability to deal significant damage, but he was quite the arc-dodger. With the TIE Advanced x1 title and Advanced Targeting Computer, I'd totally run an Engine Upgrade + Daredevil Vader again.

MKII engines on the basic Tie Fighter only adds the 3 bank as a green. How many times has that really been needed? Are you willing to spend 1 pt for it? The only time I see that as possibly being worthwhile is for Nightbeast.

Juno may benefit from taking the MkII Engine. Previously you needed to decide whether you wanted her to be able to ditch stress or have maximum flexibility with her dial when you were choosing her maneuvers. With the MkII, the only reasons to set anything but a 2 speed maneuver are because you want to go really fast in a straight line or K-Turn.

Juno may benefit from taking the MkII Engine. Previously you needed to decide whether you wanted her to be able to ditch stress or have maximum flexibility with her dial when you were choosing her maneuvers. With the MkII, the only reasons to set anything but a 2 speed maneuver are because you want to go really fast in a straight line or K-Turn.

Cool! Now you have green speed 0 turns!

Stele with VI is PS9 so alongside vader you've got enough power to strip most ships of shields but then points start to get tight.

Yeah that was the problem I was getting. Vader + Rexlar tends to be right around 80 pts. Rexlar without HLC is a waste and Vader without EU and Predator really doesn't use him right. Plus, I'd really like to fly Maarek with PTL and Mk2 as well. This is what it looks like if you try to fit Maarek, Vader, and Rexlar in a 100 pts list... Rexler Brath (37)Push the Limit (3)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) Darth Vader (29)Advanced Targeting Computer (1)TIE/x1 (0) Maarek Stele (27)Veteran Instincts (1)Advanced Targeting Computer (1)TIE/x1 (0) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder If you give Vader and Maarek ATC, you have a total of 5 pts to spend, which I spent on VI, PTL, and Mk2.

Same as me, I'll be trying it out today against a friend.

Post a full report

Went 2-0 imp vs rebel my friend used 2 rookies keyan with SoT and sensors and Blount with MF and ion pulse missiles.

Vader and stele went in first with Rexler a little behind all three went straight for Kenyan reducing him to two hit points in the first exchange, keyan returned fire striping two shields from Rexler I took no other damage, next round Vader and stele killed a rookie while rex one shot Blount his missiles never fired.

In the end I lost three shields total.

Next he replaced Blount with a third rookie and we went again my list didn't change, this time I took out a rookie with my first volley return fire dropped Vader to two hit points, Next round I killed a second x-wing and took no damage third and final round saw farlander dead and we called it there.

Vader lost three hit points but the others were untouched.

PTL brath is a beast I used PTL to focus and TL every turn which gave me alot of offensive power, but because it was five hit point ships I didn't use his power because they died before I could spend the focus I had.

Using one banks to clear stress through the two games was simple and let me keep at range where defenders thrive.

MKII engines on the basic Tie Fighter only adds the 3 bank as a green. How many times has that really been needed? Are you willing to spend 1 pt for it? The only time I see that as possibly being worthwhile is for Nightbeast.

I can't think of any specific instances in my head, but I'm sure there have been times where I would have preferred a green 3 bank over having to do a 2 green bank to bleed off stress.

It's worth a point IMO.

This upgrade is making me think about using my defender as something other than eye-candy. And at 1 point, the price is right to really open up your dial, at least for me

MKII engines on the basic Tie Fighter only adds the 3 bank as a green. How many times has that really been needed? Are you willing to spend 1 pt for it? The only time I see that as possibly being worthwhile is for Nightbeast.

I can't think of any specific instances in my head, but I'm sure there have been times where I would have preferred a green 3 bank over having to do a 2 green bank to bleed off stress.

It's worth a point IMO.

But is it worth 7 points?

MKII engines on the basic Tie Fighter only adds the 3 bank as a green. How many times has that really been needed? Are you willing to spend 1 pt for it? The only time I see that as possibly being worthwhile is for Nightbeast.

I can't think of any specific instances in my head, but I'm sure there have been times where I would have preferred a green 3 bank over having to do a 2 green bank to bleed off stress.

It's worth a point IMO.

But is it worth 7 points?

I guess we could argue all endlessly about whether this upgrade "fixes" the Defender or not, but my real question is this:

Is the Mk. 2 Engine the best Modification card for the TIE Defender? Is it a situational upgrade that you would sometimes want, sometimes not? Or is it good enough that there's no reason to take anything else?