It helps them, but it's not a Defender fix.

It does add 6 green moves to their dial, which means they get more from the upgrade than every other TIE ship.

It gives the Defender more options when stressed, both with self stress abilities (opportunist, push the limit) and with enemy stress mechanics (Rebel captive, tactician, R3-A2). So yes, for 1 point you have a decent chance of pointing the right way, something you didn't have with the Defender before.

The other thing is, Defenders didn't really have a lot of good options for modification slots anyway. Engine Upgrade is expensive on an already expensive ship, and gets the most out of PtL and Barrel Roll, which as we've already decided, I think is bad for a Defender.

Hull and Shield upgrade increase durability by roughly one sixth, for less than a sixth in points, which is not bad.

Stealth Device I've seen a few times, but never run myself, as I think it's best if you can focus/evade in the same turn.

Nothing else really benefits the Defender, so yes, I think the 1 point TIE Mk2 is a much better buy than the 3/4 point Hull/Shield/Stealth.

Again, not a fix, and certainly not something that will make Defenders competitive. But for those of us who love the ship and fly it anyway, this is a very good upgrade that gives the Defender more options.

Should have been: 2 Speed Hard turns to White manouvres. Helps a lot to Defenders and Bombers.

The white K-turn makes os that red hard turns are not that bad. It still takes 2 turns if you maneuvered incorrectly but you can still do . Also bombers only hav a single pair of red turns and that is the 2 hard turn.

However again I don't see how this really works. The most you get is a pair or 2 of green banks. So this is how it boils down to.

1 pair of green banks

• TIE Fighter
• TIE Interceptor
• TIE Phantom

2 pairs of green banks

• TIE Advanced
• TIE Bomber

3 pairs of green banks

• TIE Defender

So as for the card picture and for the advantage of having 3 pairs of maneuvers turn to green it doesn't look like it will help TIE defenders that much. The TIE Defender is an expensive ship (30 points or more, the most expensive small ship including Wave 7) So the way I look at it is great TIE defenders now cost a point more. It still takes 2 turns to do a hard and have an action. The green banks on the MA-3 Scyk interceptors don't help it and it has whit hard turns. SO I don't think the TIE defender will be seing much play even post wave 7.

Scyks are held together with twine and the prayers of Jawas. They're not really a good comp, as they're basically as easy to kill as a TIE Fighter.

The Defender's dial was a huge problem in the current game, as it made their hard turns almost completely impractical to use unless you could find other ways to modify their dice (Lone Wolf, Predator). Now, by adding more stress-clearing options, including a slow-playing 1-bank, they should be a lot more forgiving to fly while boosting the overall availability of their actions.

Really really keen to try out a PtL Rhymer with TIE Mk2. This could be a hell of a lot of fun.

Should have been: 2 Speed Hard turns to White manouvres. Helps a lot to Defenders and Bombers.

The white K-turn makes os that red hard turns are not that bad. It still takes 2 turns if you maneuvered incorrectly but you can still do . Also bombers only hav a single pair of red turns and that is the 2 hard turn.

However again I don't see how this really works. The most you get is a pair or 2 of green banks. So this is how it boils down to.

1 pair of green banks

• TIE Fighter
• TIE Interceptor
• TIE Phantom

2 pairs of green banks

• TIE Advanced
• TIE Bomber

3 pairs of green banks

• TIE Defender

So as for the card picture and for the advantage of having 3 pairs of maneuvers turn to green it doesn't look like it will help TIE defenders that much. The TIE Defender is an expensive ship (30 points or more, the most expensive small ship including Wave 7) So the way I look at it is great TIE defenders now cost a point more. It still takes 2 turns to do a hard and have an action. The green banks on the MA-3 Scyk interceptors don't help it and it has whit hard turns. SO I don't think the TIE defender will be seing much play even post wave 7.

The problem I have with Defenders is the same problem I have with StarVipers. Once I get stressed I have a hell of a time getting rid of it. 1 point to make that go away? I'm sold.

shrug

The #1 complaint about the Defender has always been the dial. This upgrade allows people to fly the Defender a bit more traditionally. I fail to see how that isn't an improvement for many who have wanted to use the Defender.

Myself, I don't necessarily need to use it. Besides, I really want to try out the Regional dual Defender list.

Should have been: 2 Speed Hard turns to White manouvres. Helps a lot to Defenders and Bombers.

This is what I was hoping for all softs green all hards white still 1 or 0 points would be better. the Idea of putting PTL on a Defender could now work well but I think it takes away from its greatest strengths 4 K White and 1 Sharp. I will play test it and try to see if I can build a Defender list but I still think it needs a fix like the Tie Advanced and A Wing.

shrug

The #1 complaint about the Defender has always been the dial. This upgrade allows people to fly the Defender a bit more traditionally. I fail to see how that isn't an improvement for many who have wanted to use the Defender.

Myself, I don't necessarily need to use it. Besides, I really want to try out the Regional dual Defender list.

I disagree. The #1 compliant is the fact that the Defender, especially the common pilots, are too expensive and missing an EPT slot.

I am pretty settled with the Defender's dial since it was released.

When I use Vessery, I use VI or Outmanouver. When I use Rexler, its VI or Predator.

For me, this fixes only Rexler + PTL for the DD list which makes it the DD MK.II list.

All in all, it fixes Rexler + PTL or Opportunist, which can be handy after stressless k-turning but your opponent has stress and so you are able to attack with 4 or 5 dice, get a stress and clear it while you have the chance to alter your bearing. At the same time it prevents you from using Engine Upgrade, Stealth Device, Hull upgrade, Shield upgrade.

So all in all thats no fix. It just adds a bit more possibilities.

Maybe some will use it at Soontir to make him a bit more unpredictable while even cheaper, for 33 points.

I can absolutely see him with 2 Bounty Hunters.

I disagree. The #1 compliant is the fact that the Defender, especially the common pilots, are too expensive and missing an EPT slot.

As far as I can tell the top complaints about the Defender are:

- How bad the dial is at ditching stress.

- The cost.

- Lack of the Evade action.

However you order them, the dial's difficulty in dealing with stress is going to rank highly in things that people dislike about the Defender. A 1 point upgrade that addresses one of the most common complaints about playing Defenders is a solid upgrade in my book. Being able to pull that red 1 turn, or shoot at a ship with Rebel Captive, or get hit by an enemy's stress effect and not being stuck without an action for the next few turns is a big deal.

. At the same time it prevents you from using Engine Upgrade, Stealth Device, Hull upgrade, Shield upgrade.

I've never used any of these on a Defender so it's an opportunity cost that I don't mind paying.

Really really keen to try out a PtL Rhymer with TIE Mk2. This could be a hell of a lot of fun.

Major Rhymer (26)

Push the Limit (3)

Extra Munitions (2)

Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)

Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Total: 45

It still takes 2 turns to do a hard and have an action. The green banks on the MA-3 Scyk interceptors don't help it and it has whit hard turns.

You're right that it still takes a minimum of 2 rounds to pull a hard turn and get an action but with the mkII modification you aren't stuck going straight on that second turn. I almost never end up going straight the first round after pulling a red turn in my Defender because I'll have to either forgo taking a shot or know that I'll end up in multiple arcs because my opponent expects me to go straight to clear the stress. With green banks as an option to clear stress, I'll be much more likely to be able to clear stress on that second turn.

I don't really get your point about the Scyk. Having white hard turns should make the green banks a little less useful than they'd be if those same turns were red. In any event, having the green banks definitely helps the Scyk. Without them the Scyk would have a much harder time recovering after pulling a K-Turn.

Regarding defenders, the predator vs ptl debate is worth having.

Predator allows use when stressed or taking another action. In terms of action economy, you always get a mini target lock.
PTL allows a full target lock or flexibility to do focus+br for example if you already have a TL (from not using it the previous turn, or you're Vessery). Without boost or evade, ptl can be worthless if you don't need to barrel roll nor target lock. Another problem with PTL is that you have to clear stress the next turn or you're not gaining action economy over the long run.

Now with MkII, PTL is more viable as you add 6 green maneuvers to the dial. It is ALSO worth using with predator because it allows you to do a red turn followed by a green bank instead of a red turn followed by a green straight. And it makes you a lot more resilient against rebel captive, tactician, and R3-A2.

Before MkII, running Vess+Rex wasn't great synergy because Rexlar wanted a focus, Vessery needed the other ship to TL, and PTL just wasn't viable with only green straights. Now it actually works pretty well if you give Rex PTL and Vess VI, both with HLC, prockets, and MkII.

It's still not ideal though and I'd rather run Vessery grouped with a TIE Advanced with ATC or Kenkirk with the Emperor.

Vader is still perhaps the best wingman for sexy mcrexy then.

Yeah you definitely want someone to punch through shields before Rex shoots.

"ALL THE CRITS"

I'd use Maarek to make it more critty, but he doesn't actually do more crits, just better crits. And again, you want someone to shoot before Rex

Stele with VI is PS9 so alongside vader you've got enough power to strip most ships of shields but then points start to get tight.

Stele with VI is PS9 so alongside vader you've got enough power to strip most ships of shields but then points start to get tight.

Yeah that was the problem I was getting. Vader + Rexlar tends to be right around 80 pts. Rexlar without HLC is a waste and Vader without EU and Predator really doesn't use him right.

Plus, I'd really like to fly Maarek with PTL and Mk2 as well.

This is what it looks like if you try to fit Maarek, Vader, and Rexlar in a 100 pts list...

Stele with VI is PS9 so alongside vader you've got enough power to strip most ships of shields but then points start to get tight.

Yeah that was the problem I was getting. Vader + Rexlar tends to be right around 80 pts. Rexlar without HLC is a waste and Vader without EU and Predator really doesn't use him right. Plus, I'd really like to fly Maarek with PTL and Mk2 as well. This is what it looks like if you try to fit Maarek, Vader, and Rexlar in a 100 pts list... Rexler Brath (37)Push the Limit (3)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) Darth Vader (29)Advanced Targeting Computer (1)TIE/x1 (0) Maarek Stele (27)Veteran Instincts (1)Advanced Targeting Computer (1)TIE/x1 (0) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder If you give Vader and Maarek ATC, you have a total of 5 pts to spend, which I spent on VI, PTL, and Mk2.

Same as me, I'll be trying it out today against a friend.

Stele with VI is PS9 so alongside vader you've got enough power to strip most ships of shields but then points start to get tight.

Yeah that was the problem I was getting. Vader + Rexlar tends to be right around 80 pts. Rexlar without HLC is a waste and Vader without EU and Predator really doesn't use him right. Plus, I'd really like to fly Maarek with PTL and Mk2 as well. This is what it looks like if you try to fit Maarek, Vader, and Rexlar in a 100 pts list... Rexler Brath (37)Push the Limit (3)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) Darth Vader (29)Advanced Targeting Computer (1)TIE/x1 (0) Maarek Stele (27)Veteran Instincts (1)Advanced Targeting Computer (1)TIE/x1 (0) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder If you give Vader and Maarek ATC, you have a total of 5 pts to spend, which I spent on VI, PTL, and Mk2.

Same as me, I'll be trying it out today against a friend.

Post a full report

There are those people that have been dedicated to the Tie Defender that have done quite well with it. While most are dismissing it, there are those that are getting good tournament results (and non-tourney results). I think that shows that it's not just some over-costed ship, but it might have a bit of a learning curve. I think the MKII engine just makes it easier to fly. I'm tired of seeing it called "an overcosted ship" and not a good ship. I mean, how many times does it have to place in a Regionals event to shake that title?

I think dual Deci's and Dual defenders are both very doable. As well as D/AD/AD. (where D is either the Defender or the Deci). I do of course prefer either flanked by two advanced. Ideally Maarek/Vader. (though likely with the defender, twin tempest.

The problem is statistical significance. You can have 100 Chirafels go into Regionals and have 30 make the top 8 (numbers made up completely) at the same time have a single Double Defender squad enter a Regional and make the top 8, and although 1/1 (there might be more double defender lists that have entered Regionals, but I've never seen or heard anything about them) is a higher percentage of attempts making it to the top 8, those 30/100 successes are more convincing because they're much less likely to be a fluke. Combine that with the fact that very few people make a serious attempt to get a good understanding of how Defenders fly, and it's easier for them to believe that a single positive result isn't really worth taking into account.

TIE Engine ?

Twin Ion Engine Engine ?

ATM Machine anyone?

Stele with VI is PS9 so alongside vader you've got enough power to strip most ships of shields but then points start to get tight.

Yeah that was the problem I was getting. Vader + Rexlar tends to be right around 80 pts. Rexlar without HLC is a waste and Vader without EU and Predator really doesn't use him right.

Plus, I'd really like to fly Maarek with PTL and Mk2 as well.

This is what it looks like if you try to fit Maarek, Vader, and Rexlar in a 100 pts list...

Rexler Brath (37)

Push the Limit (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Darth Vader (29)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Maarek Stele (27)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If you give Vader and Maarek ATC, you have a total of 5 pts to spend, which I spent on VI, PTL, and Mk2.

Having two ships not wanting to spend TL I would use Vessery instead.

Yeah I've used Vader to spot for Vessery before. (been proxying that X1 for a few months now). Honestly the big thing I found is don't bother with the mango, stick to the sniper.

Yeah that was the problem I was getting. Vader + Rexlar tends to be right around 80 pts. Rexlar without HLC is a waste and Vader without EU and Predator really doesn't use him right.

Plus, I'd really like to fly Maarek with PTL and Mk2 as well.

This is what it looks like if you try to fit Maarek, Vader, and Rexlar in a 100 pts list...

Rexler Brath (37)

Push the Limit (3)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Darth Vader (29)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Maarek Stele (27)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

If you give Vader and Maarek ATC, you have a total of 5 pts to spend, which I spent on VI, PTL, and Mk2.

Having two ships not wanting to spend TL I would use Vessery instead.

Colonel Vessery - Veteran Instincts, Twin Ion Engine MkII

Rexler Brath - Push The Limit, Twin Ion Engine MkII

Tempest Squadron Pilot - TIE/x1, Advanced Targeting Computer

Aggressive, shooty death.

Bravo to FFG for coming up with an engine upgrade that is different from both the R2 and Unhinged!