I won't run a defender without EU. but now I might.

WAY better without EU. Defenders want to be far away from their targets. Boost gets them too close. Staying far away and barrel-rolling can get any arc you need.

Laugh all you want, I've never really loved EU on Defenders. My double list has always run defensive mods.

Same never played a game and wished i had EU.

I have, however, played games with Defenders where I dearly wished for a green 1-bank option.

Laugh all you want, I've never really loved EU on Defenders. My double list has always run defensive mods.

Same never played a game and wished i had EU.

I have, however, played games with Defenders where I dearly wished for a green 1-bank option.

That's the thing: By giving significant Greens, they've allowed the Defender to use its red Turns more often.

Now, I'm still a fan of White K + Boost shenanigans, but contrasted with actually having a turning radius, I like the cheaper option

Night Beast like new engine.

We completely forgot about normal Fighters for this upgrade. You're right on the Beast being the Normal Fighter for it

They wouldn't be too bad if you have some spare points to put them on the Fighters.

Mauler Mithel could use it with any stress elite talent ... as well as the Black Sq Pilots.

But yess ... its not THAT good on the huble Tie Fighter

It's not that good on anything.

It is what it is.

It's not that good on anything.

It's a 1 point multi-platform upgrade. It's pretty spiffy for its cost.

Contrast it to an R2 Astromech, and it comes out fairly favorably.

it's pretty good on bombers and defenders and (ofc) punishers ito greens gained

of course, "good" is relative. This is the imperial r2 astro/unhinged

Should have been: 2 Speed Hard turns to White manouvres. Helps a lot to Defenders and Bombers.

Should have been: 2 Speed Hard turns to White manouvres. Helps a lot to Defenders and Bombers.

Test it both ways, with different popular upgrades. I'd be willing to bet that you'll find adding the banked greens to the defender will help you out more often than giving it white 2 turns. The Defender is still overpriced, but this is a step in the right direction. Weaponized stress is a death sentence to a Defender, for either one of two reasons: it makes you predictable, or it makes you go really fast to GTFO to clear stress, putting you out of the fight for a minute so your opponent doesn't have to deal with your strongest force. Now stress is not nearly as crippling, from opposing weapons as well as opening its short turns into viable options in far more situations.

Should have been: 2 Speed Hard turns to White manouvres. Helps a lot to Defenders and Bombers.

I think Defenders need a way to ditch stress other than going straight more than they need to get rid of the red turns.

It's not that good on anything.

It's a 1 point multi-platform upgrade. It's pretty spiffy for its cost.

Contrast it to an R2 Astromech, and it comes out fairly favorably.

I've been thinking how much I love the theming. Rebels get greens by going slow, Scum by going fast, and Imperials by going curvey.

It's a 1 point multi-platform upgrade. It's pretty spiffy for its cost.

Contrast it to an R2 Astromech, and it comes out fairly favorably.

That's a good shout, actually. It's an R2 for TIEs, and just like the R2, it's better on some platforms than others.

I think its a well-designed upgrade.

It is hardly a fix for the Tie Defender. But it helps.

Rexler could take PTL or Defenders could use their turns and get rid of the stress in the same match

It helps Bombers somewhat.

I think it could even help an Academy miniswarm after k-turning.

Its not a big bang. But I think it has a greater impact then the rebel R2.

3x Oynx Squadron, 3x MK 2 Engines.

Can't wait.

Never heard ANYONE say that before, not even the TIE Defender advocates.

If I may, though:

Onyx Squadron Pilot - Twin Ion Engine MkII

Onyx Squadron Pilot - Twin Ion Engine MkII

Darth Vader - TIE/x1, Engine Upgrade, Advanced Targetting Computer

...of course, you could always drop the Onyx Pilots to Deltas and give Darth the MkII and an EPT as well (...Ruthlessness?)

Edit: Has anyone tried Vader with Engine Upgrade and Daredevil?

Mmmmmm possibly the best card to come out of this wave

3x Oynx Squadron, 3x MK 2 Engines.

Can't wait.

Never heard ANYONE say that before, not even the TIE Defender advocates.

...

For a 'generic Defender swarm' using this upgrade, I think the better option would be:

2x Delta-squadron w/ Flechette cannon and TIE Mk II

1x Delta-squadron w/ Ion cannon and TIE Mk II

...gives you nice control options, which is what you really need when running low-skill pilots, to help ensure you actually get the close-range shots you want (because you have a much better idea where the enemy will end up!)

3x Oynx Squadron, 3x MK 2 Engines.

Can't wait.

Never heard ANYONE say that before, not even the TIE Defender advocates.

...

For a 'generic Defender swarm' using this upgrade, I think the better option would be:

2x Delta-squadron w/ Flechette cannon and TIE Mk II

1x Delta-squadron w/ Ion cannon and TIE Mk II

...gives you nice control options, which is what you really need when running low-skill pilots, to help ensure you actually get the close-range shots you want (because you have a much better idea where the enemy will end up!)

I've played generic defenders with flechette/ion cannons before. What ends up happening is that you do almost nothing in the way of actual damage to your opponents.

I've played generic defenders with flechette/ion cannons before. What ends up happening is that you do almost nothing in the way of actual damage to your opponents.

Alas! If only Defenders equipped with Ion or Flechette Cannons were still able to attack with their primary weapons, so that the cannon represented added control without giving up the ability to do actual damage when needed.

Alas! If only Defenders equipped with Ion or Flechette Cannons were still able to attack with their primary weapons, so that the cannon represented added control without giving up the ability to do actual damage when needed.

That's the _actual_ Defender fix I'm waiting for. Something that sits in the cannon slot, is Defender only, and adds ionization to every primary weapon hit. And price it about 2pts under what it should be.

Don't get me wrong- the Mrk2 engine is a nice stopgap, but I look forward to something a bit more hardcore.

Alas! If only Defenders equipped with Ion or Flechette Cannons were still able to attack with their primary weapons, so that the cannon represented added control without giving up the ability to do actual damage when needed.

That's the _actual_ Defender fix I'm waiting for. Something that sits in the cannon slot, is Defender only, and adds ionization to every primary weapon hit. And price it about 2pts under what it should be.

Don't get me wrong- the Mrk2 engine is a nice stopgap, but I look forward to something a bit more hardcore.

I agree that would be a great addition to the Defender. But actually I was making fun of ParaGoomba Slayer for (apparently) forgetting that unless you're the Outrider, you get to pick whether to use a secondary weapon or your primary weapon with every attack you make.

3x Oynx Squadron, 3x MK 2 Engines.

Can't wait.

Never heard ANYONE say that before, not even the TIE Defender advocates.

...

For a 'generic Defender swarm' using this upgrade, I think the better option would be:

2x Delta-squadron w/ Flechette cannon and TIE Mk II

1x Delta-squadron w/ Ion cannon and TIE Mk II

...gives you nice control options, which is what you really need when running low-skill pilots, to help ensure you actually get the close-range shots you want (because you have a much better idea where the enemy will end up!)

I've played generic defenders with flechette/ion cannons before. What ends up happening is that you do almost nothing in the way of actual damage to your opponents.

I was happy with them. I usually only used them at range three to deny my targets the extra defense die. I'd be more likely to get a point of damage through and the stress or ion token was a bonus.

So defenders will go from 30 to 31 points, and this helps them how?

Well it won't help the jousting values that much. Arc dodging a defender was the same as arc dodging a firespray.

Should have been: 2 Speed Hard turns to White manouvres. Helps a lot to Defenders and Bombers.

The white K-turn makes that red hard turns are not that bad. It still takes 2 turns if you maneuvered incorrectly but you can still do . Also bombers only have a single pair of red turns and that is the 2 hard turn.

However again I don't see how this really works. The most you get is a pair or 2 of green banks. So this is how it boils down to.

1 pair of green banks

• TIE Fighter
• TIE Interceptor
• TIE Phantom

2 pairs of green banks

• TIE Advanced
• TIE Bomber

3 pairs of green banks

• TIE Defender

So as for the card picture and for the advantage of having 3 pairs of maneuvers turn to green it doesn't look like it will help TIE defenders that much. The TIE Defender is an expensive ship (30 points or more, the most expensive small ship including Wave 7) So the way I look at it is great TIE defenders now cost a point more. It still takes 2 turns to do a hard and have an action. The green banks on the MA-3 Scyk interceptors don't help it and it has whit hard turns. SO I don't think the TIE defender will be seeing much play even post wave 7.