You couldn't be more wrong. If plasma torpedoes hit then their effect would possibly be better than proton torpedoes assuming that the ship has any shields remaining. That is quite a few asterisks to make it better than proton torpedoes. The plasma torpedoes has a higher probability of taking of 4 shields than the proton torpedoes but how many ships have 4 shields again? If you do 3 hits and it has well 2 shields then congratulations you have done equivalent of 3 face down damage but paid for 4 damage in squadron points.

The thing that really kills plasma torpedoes is the same thing that kills ion torpedoes. It has to hit and has no dice modification abilities. In a matter of fact it takes away dice modifications abilities which is one of the many reasons why missiles and torpedo upgrades are so underwhelming to begin with. Turning 1 focus result into a crit is not a significantly substitute to re-rolling any or all of your dice but it is better than what plasma torpedoes have. Getting that one extra hit over the evades, even if it just takes off a shield token is far better than watching a good green roll canceling your attack all together, and with the new defensive abilities a decent green roll can cancel an attack that has been rolled even a 3 hit attack.

Face it plasma torpedoes are too situational to be of any good. The best torpedo secondary weapon is well flechette torpedo because of its point value and its effect goes off even if it does not hit.

I understand your logic, but disagree with your conclusions.

For one thing, the Plasma is only 3 pts, but lets you roll 4 dice. If you have some way of passing an action to the ordnance owner, you end up ahead. That alone is worth it. Forget the extra damage that would hit a shield. It's 4 dice that does damage for 3 pts.

Think of the extra shield damage as the eyeball that turns into a crit. Yes, you can't modify the dice, which means you would do one less damage on average. If you get one hit through, it turns into 2 hits...if they have a shield. So....situationally, you have a built in damage modifier.

Well even more than that, the Plasma Torpedoes have a very important aspect that people are overlooking: nobody regenerates Hull points. R2-D2, IG-88A, and Miranda don't care how much Hull they have left when their Regen powers kick in, just so long as they don't have max Shield values.

So, you either use the Plasma first off for a stronger alpha strike against shielded targets like B-Wings or a Falcon, or set up a potent TL/F shot on a potent VIP, or you use it after someone has regenerated some shields to more efficiently deny their recovery. Everyone who has flown against Super Corran has probably seen him actually take a damage card and then pull all three shields back into place; the Plasmas make it a bit more balanced to knock them off in the first and second place.

R5-D8, WED droid(epic only) and Chewie(crew) recover Hull. Shield regen is more common though.

You couldn't be more wrong. If plasma torpedoes hit then their effect would possibly be better than proton torpedoes assuming that the ship has any shields remaining. That is quite a few asterisks to make it better than proton torpedoes. The plasma torpedoes has a higher probability of taking of 4 shields than the proton torpedoes but how many ships have 4 shields again? If you do 3 hits and it has well 2 shields then congratulations you have done equivalent of 3 face down damage but paid for 4 damage in squadron points.

The thing that really kills plasma torpedoes is the same thing that kills ion torpedoes. It has to hit and has no dice modification abilities. In a matter of fact it takes away dice modifications abilities which is one of the many reasons why missiles and torpedo upgrades are so underwhelming to begin with. Turning 1 focus result into a crit is not a significantly substitute to re-rolling any or all of your dice but it is better than what plasma torpedoes have. Getting that one extra hit over the evades, even if it just takes off a shield token is far better than watching a good green roll canceling your attack all together, and with the new defensive abilities a decent green roll can cancel an attack that has been rolled even a 3 hit attack.

Face it plasma torpedoes are too situational to be of any good. The best torpedo secondary weapon is well flechette torpedo because of its point value and its effect goes off even if it does not hit.

I understand your logic, but disagree with your conclusions.

For one thing, the Plasma is only 3 pts, but lets you roll 4 dice. If you have some way of passing an action to the ordnance owner, you end up ahead. That alone is worth it. Forget the extra damage that would hit a shield. It's 4 dice that does damage for 3 pts.

Think of the extra shield damage as the eyeball that turns into a crit. Yes, you can't modify the dice, which means you would do one less damage on average. If you get one hit through, it turns into 2 hits...if they have a shield. So....situationally, you have a built in damage modifier.

3 points might have been okay coming by itself. But with Extra Munitions coming out that 3 point is now more of a curse much like 5-6 pilot skill. Extra munitions is better with the more expensive bombs torpedo, and missile upgrades. With extra munitions on plasma torpedoes you only get a discount of 1 and that is not good at all. Proton torpedoes give you a discount of 2. So it is better with extra munitions. Extra munitions is only good for reducing the point cost of the second torpedo.

Plasma torpedo might be cheaper by one point but cheaper by one point even with doubles. If it were not for EM then it would be 2 points cheaper. But what would you use that extra point for? Munition failsafe? It would be reasonable as an insurance policy by like all good insurance policies there are deductibles and exemptions. Plasma torpedoes will miss more often that proton torpedoes and thus need the falesafe more. But if you miss you still fall behind by a full attack and you still don't get your target lock back so you are also behind by an action. Also you are not guaranteed the extra shield removal if you get a later chance as the shields might already be knocked down. It is only good if there are any shield tokens remaining after the attack. With most scum ships only having 1 shield and many imperial ships having none; plasma torpedoes will not be that useful even with a 1 point discount to put into a munition failsafe.

However arguing about which bad upgrade is slightly better is like having a photo finish for determining who was 11th and who was 12th place in a race. Both are bad and HLC beat both set ups no matter what you put into it. EM, MF, it doesn't matter that 2 torpedo attacks = 2 HLC attacks and what extra effect the torpedo attack may have. The fact that you have to spend the target lock kills the ability. I say proton torpedoes is better because it has a better chance to hit. The bonus effects averages out with crit able to do extra damage if no shields are remaining and plasma being able to do extra damage if there are still any shield tokens left. Yet losing the target lock makes the best answer would be to not use either.

Stick to HLC, I am afraid post Wave 7, all the bombs missiles and torpedoes secondary weapons will not budge from their low underpowered point sink status.

Why spend 5 points and three slots for rec spec and deadeye when you could just spend three on PTL and have more versatility? Yes, the B-wing dial isn't very good for clearing stress, but it's not a good ship to put recon spec on either due to the one agility.

Deadeye/RecSpec is probably best on Nera with advanced torpedos due to the mechanics, but it does produce reliable damage and it can wipe out a fighter per torpedo, which IS worth the investment. As to why not PTL, you said it. B Wing doesn't shed stress very well without severely limiting its own options. Keyan eats stress, but he's the only B Wing which can happily stress itself.

3 points might have been okay coming by itself. But with Extra Munitions coming out that 3 point is now more of a curse much like 5-6 pilot skill. Extra munitions is better with the more expensive bombs torpedo, and missile upgrades. With extra munitions on plasma torpedoes you only get a discount of 1 and that is not good at all. Proton torpedoes give you a discount of 2. So it is better with extra munitions. Extra munitions is only good for reducing the point cost of the second torpedo.

Plasma torpedo might be cheaper by one point but cheaper by one point even with doubles. If it were not for EM then it would be 2 points cheaper. But what would you use that extra point for? Munition failsafe? It would be reasonable as an insurance policy by like all good insurance policies there are deductibles and exemptions. Plasma torpedoes will miss more often that proton torpedoes and thus need the falesafe more. But if you miss you still fall behind by a full attack and you still don't get your target lock back so you are also behind by an action . Also you are not guaranteed the extra shield removal if you get a later chance as the shields might already be knocked down. It is only good if there are any shield tokens remaining after the attack. With most scum ships only having 1 shield and many imperial ships having none; plasma torpedoes will not be that useful even with a 1 point discount to put into a munition failsafe.

I absolutely agree that Proton Torpedoes are better for the 1 pt, especially with Extra Munitions. I was going purely for cheap. You will get more hits with a Proton Torpedo on the average.

The bit about being a full attack behind.....I don't get. Let's say you roll and miss with your 4 dice. What would you have done anyways? Rolled an attack...which could've missed just like the you just did. You talk like if you roll your Torpedo and miss, you missed doing a "real" attack that would've hit. Except that "real" attack actually can miss just as much. Are you behind if you miss with a regular attack? If so, then you lose nothing, really. If not, then I don't understand the logic.

However arguing about which bad upgrade is slightly better is like having a photo finish for determining who was 11th and who was 12th place in a race. Both are bad and HLC beat both set ups no matter what you put into it. EM, MF, it doesn't matter that 2 torpedo attacks = 2 HLC attacks and what extra effect the torpedo attack may have. The fact that you have to spend the target lock kills the ability. I say proton torpedoes is better because it has a better chance to hit. The bonus effects averages out with crit able to do extra damage if no shields are remaining and plasma being able to do extra damage if there are still any shield tokens left. Yet losing the target lock makes the best answer would be to not use either.

Stick to HLC, I am afraid post Wave 7, all the bombs missiles and torpedoes secondary weapons will not budge from their low underpowered point sink status.

I will agree to disagree with you that ordnance is bad. Besides the ways to pass actions, it still is overall cheaper.

You also miss the whole point of this thread. It's not about Torpedoes on general B-wings. It's about Nera Dantels who can fire them 360. So....if you went with HLC on Nera, you can only fire forward arc. There is a HUGE difference there. That's one point where the Torpedoes are better.

For that matter, with a borderline roll, would you prefer to do 1 shield damage with the Proton torpedo's crit? Or would you like to failsafe your Plasma Torp to try and get more damage off before losing it?

That's a tough one. Might depend on playtesting and what else is in your list. If your opponents tend to target Nera, then take the Proton. If you have other threats that people go after, then Plasma is worth it more.

I have to agree with Chadwick there. Since the proton torpedo takes less preparation, (it is okay to fire it without TL+F) I would take it if it were the premier threat of the list. I think Plasma torpedoes either require TL+F or sacrificing a goat to the dice gods.

Proton does just fine, and I think Extra Munitions really made up for the biggest reason not to take them. Nera loves the silly things, especially with a Fire-Control System! However, I think I'd rather save a point and use Plasmas, take that point and give her Deadeye, and make someone else in the squad handy to give her a Focus (Esege, Garvin, and Kyle all Wave).

But! If you're looking to make Nera pretty self-sufficient, I think FCS, Protons, EM, and Predator will have you pretty solidly covered. Yeah that's 11 points of upgrades on a PS5 B-Wing, but you can't argue with her action efficiency and damage output. Normally Predator and FCS grind in the wrong direction, but it really makes both of those Protons work that little bit extra. Plus, whenever you swap targets and haven't started an FCS chain yet, you aren't just rolling dice and hoping. As much.

I like that a lot.

If you want to trim it down a bit, you can take off FCS. Yes, it is nice, but not fully necessary with Predator. Just evil for taking out generics with the double re-roll.

I'd take Nera with Ion Torpedoes and EM (+7) and possibly MF or Ion Cannon (EPT TBD). While the 360 arc PTs are nice damage for +1 you gain AoE Ionization.