IIRC anything below a class 2 Hyperdrive in WEG was illegal on non-Imperial Ships, yet I can't find anything in EotE to suggest Class 1 and 0.5 drives are illegal in this system.

So.. is our GM using WEG splat to screw us over as players to fork out C6400 if we fail a negotiation roll and then an as yet unknown amount of credits to falsify the BoSS ship registration to get up to a 0.5 hyperdrive? Page 151 of the core rules sucks big time....

Seriously, this kind of thing needs official splat from FFG

It's irrelevant if that's how your GM wants to run it.

Yeah, that kinda thing really is up to your GM. There's really no mechanical issues regarding your hyperdrive, it's dependant on the travel time the gm alloys in the adventure design. x1,x.5,x20, really doesn't matter unless the GM is a N00B and isn't factoring in the players abilities and limitations into the adventure design.

The question "is our GM using WEG splat to screw us over" concerns me.

Is your GM a particularly adversarial one? Does he do things that feel like he's screwing his players over? More importantly, is he doing things that make the game not fun?

Challenge is inherent to the game; with no challenge, there would be no adventure. With no challenge, there is no character development. So if the GM is putting your PCs in challenging situations, he is doing his job! But if he's doing it in a particularly adversarial way, then that is unhelpful. It can lead to hurt feelings, bad gaming, and burn-out.

If your GM is legit screwing you and the other players over, then have a talk with him and tell him that it feels like he's being too adversarial and you'd like it if he was a little more on the players' side. But don't go looking for stuff to rules-lawyer him into submission. The GM arbitrates all rules in the game; it is pointless to try and argue rules. But you can ask him to make the game more fun.

I've had a few, "How could you do that?!?!" moments when my GM messed with me

He says, "It's my job!"

Seeing as he's my dad, this exchange happens far more often than just at the gaming table, though.

And I'm kinda convinced he's enjoying himself just a little too much with all the added opportunities he gets to mess with me since he became my GM...

It's irrelevant if that's how your GM wants to run it.

tbh,... thought so... we've decided via the Facebook chat window thingy not to fall into the trap of buying a .5 hyperdrive as he keeps suggesting 'You'll get there in half the speed' to which we will now reply with 'In the films it's a cut scene'

also he's factored in the ship maintainence book keeping 'rules' - next week, tongue in cheek, just as we start I'm going to place the PFRPG rules on the table saying 'Oh, sorry, I thought we were playing a rules heavy, feat taxing, book keeping RPG, not an abstract, plot driven, logo dice game... all in jest,,,, I seriously am hooked on EotE.

....and load up on sublight speed increase for ship combat, shields and upgraded turrets on the YT-1300 instead, not neccesarily in that order

The GM is well within his rights to set the campaign details. However, as a player you have the right to ask what those rules are before the game starts. Any GM that springs random rules on the players isn't worth playing with. It sounds like he told you in advance about the hyper drive so no harm, no foul. It also sounds like he's baiting a little by enticing you to get it. Nothing wrong with that since you may be providing him with several sessions of material by getting it. As the GM it can be fun to set the trap in front of the mice then place a delectable piece of cheese on it to see what the players will do. But I will reiterate that you should get all of these little non FFG rules down so that you won't be stuck I to a gotcha situation.

I think giving the players trouble for having a fast hyperdrive is a cheap shot from any GM. I ran a WEG campaign for 20+ years, and I never hassled my players over their hyperdrive multiplier. Apart from metagaming reasons (see "cheap shot", above) I think it's a weird thing for an Imperial inspector to care about or even notice. If a customs official comes aboard to inspect the ship he'll be looking for contraband, not a modified hyperdrive, and if the Empire boards the ship on a more serious charge a modified hyperdrive is the least of the PCs' problem. To me it just seems like the stereotypical scene where a cop busts someone for driving with a broken taillight.

Just my two cents, anyway.

also he's factored in the ship maintainence book keeping 'rules' - next week, tongue in cheek, just as we start I'm going to place the PFRPG rules on the table saying 'Oh, sorry, I thought we were playing a rules heavy, feat taxing, book keeping RPG, not an abstract, plot driven, logo dice game... all in jest,,,, I seriously am hooked on EotE.

Not to change the subject, but there's a WEG book that covers ship maintenance?

OK, this was bugging me so I busted out my WEG gear and checked a couple things.

Bear in mind it's possible your GM is doing something specific related to the campaign he is running, so the following may not be valid, but if he's just a noob, or grumpy old grognard, here's a solution that is in line with WEG while leveraging new materials....

In WEG, x1s were not illegal. They required additional licensing, but were not illegal by a long shot.

.5s were illegal, but we'll get to that.

Now, under WEG there was also only two ways to get to .5. 1) Buy some kind of homemade or stolen prototype on the black market (expensive) or 2) Modify your existing hyperdrive.

FFG resolves nearly all these problems for you though.

For starters, lets assume you have an x2 to start.

So, you get your Hyperdrive upgrade attachment getting you to x1. Not illegal to get that, so you're good, but if you get stopped you may need some extra paperwork. Depending on who you work for you may already have these. Assuming you aren't a legit medical transportation op running live organs, you may need some falsified documents. Which are found in Fly Casual at a reasonable base price and rarity. Get those and you're good to go.

Now to get to .5, you'll need to make some illegal mods to that attachment. Book tells you how to do that, no problems.

That leaves you with an illegal .5 and a license for a x1. Got a face in your party? Because customs won't arrest everyone with a modded hyperdrive without reason, they'd be arresting every other independent freighter captain in the sector. So to get caught with a modded x1 tricked out to be a.5 is gonna take more then a simple cargo inspection, theyll needva tech to take a look at it. Maybe it's just me, but if you got the inspector so ticked they brought a tech over, your Hyperdrive is probably just one of many problems you currently have.

It's irrelevant if that's how your GM wants to run it.

tbh,... thought so... we've decided via the Facebook chat window thingy not to fall into the trap of buying a .5 hyperdrive as he keeps suggesting 'You'll get there in half the speed' to which we will now reply with 'In the films it's a cut scene'

also he's factored in the ship maintainence book keeping 'rules' - next week, tongue in cheek, just as we start I'm going to place the PFRPG rules on the table saying 'Oh, sorry, I thought we were playing a rules heavy, feat taxing, book keeping RPG, not an abstract, plot driven, logo dice game... all in jest,,,, I seriously am hooked on EotE.

....and load up on sublight speed increase for ship combat, shields and upgraded turrets on the YT-1300 instead, not neccesarily in that order

Honestly the only time hyperspace speed really might factor in mechanically rulewise, and only maybe, is if you're doing smuggling mission, but that's not even like a hard and fast rule in every situation either. Really isn't a big deal typically.

To me it just seems like the stereotypical scene where a cop busts someone for driving with a broken taillight.

This is totally where I see this coming in. Inspector wants to give the heroes a rough time for whatever reason (cf. "Burn Notice" season 2), and can't nail them on some BIG things he (rightly) suspects they've done (like big smuggling jobs, or Rebel activity), so he dings them for every little thing he can just to make their lives more difficult, while simultaneously trying to turn the crew against each other in hopes that one of them will turn spy for him.

The "fun" in this situation comes after separation between player and player character is realized

For some games 2P51 that is true, but no one shoe fits every foot. Not everyone thinks hyperspace should be handled with added hand-waivium (or speed-of-plot if you would rather).

I, for one, track game time rather studiously so travel times are an important side note for me. I have Rebellion members and I have specific missions that I have planned that were done in EU where I plan on redoing with my party. Using the galactic timeline as a guideline I'm trying to keep the events rather close if at all possible. This has very little bearing on the PC's, but it's an important (to me) bit.

I don't run day by day in hyperspace, but there are a number of adventure seeds where time is a major plot element. Sure, you could always run it where the GM just dictates where and when you arrive, but that (for some) suspends disbelief a bit too much. Is it seen in the movies? No. But knowing it took the Falcon approximately 4 days to reach Alderaan make the fact Luke was able to learn the concept of blaster deflection a bit easier to digest. But as with ALL things, YMMV.

For some games 2P51 that is true, but no one shoe fits every foot. Not everyone thinks hyperspace should be handled with added hand-waivium (or speed-of-plot if you would rather).

I, for one, track game time rather studiously so travel times are an important side note for me. I have Rebellion members and I have specific missions that I have planned that were done in EU where I plan on redoing with my party. Using the galactic timeline as a guideline I'm trying to keep the events rather close if at all possible. This has very little bearing on the PC's, but it's an important (to me) bit.

I don't run day by day in hyperspace, but there are a number of adventure seeds where time is a major plot element. Sure, you could always run it where the GM just dictates where and when you arrive, but that (for some) suspends disbelief a bit too much. Is it seen in the movies? No. But knowing it took the Falcon approximately 4 days to reach Alderaan make the fact Luke was able to learn the concept of blaster deflection a bit easier to digest. But as with ALL things, YMMV.

Which is your decision but not a RAW mechanical rule which is what I actually said.

Fair enough, but if you are using RAW mechanically, hyperdrive multipliers are used every time a ship enters hyperspace. Time to destination is mentioned, though nebulously, in every core book and a more detailed chart for certain areas in Fly Casual.

If a GM wishes to not use that rule, it is his/her choice, but if using rules as presented, it's used quite often actually.

Either way, semantics. Game rules are a set of codified guidelines for a good interactive story telling. Use them, change them, ignore them or write new ones. Do what works for you and yours.

As for the OP, I too use the fact a x1 is restricted and a .5 is an illegal modification as well as using repair, refueling, docking and supplies costs. My party knew this and reacted accordingly. They have false credentials for the hyperdrive (just in case) and have access to the actual unit conveniently difficult to get to for inspections (there's a hidden access panel so as no the make their own lives difficult). Our player wanted a ship as fast as the Falcon, his character would just rather spend as little time in hyperspace as possible, preferring realspace.

I pretty much run it the way Ghostofman spelled out. If your GM is actually doing it to mess with you, let him know that his nit-picking and heavy handed approach feels adversarial is not appreciated and is lessening your enjoyment of the game. If he is not deliberately trying to be adversarial then, again, you need to let him know how it's affecting your enjoyment. Not all GM's intuitively know if what he/she is doing is upsetting the players unless they say something.

Either way, I hope things change enough, either way, for you and your group to get more fun from your sessions.

Fair enough, but if you are using RAW mechanically, hyperdrive multipliers are used every time a ship enters hyperspace. Time to destination is mentioned, though nebulously, in every core book and a more detailed chart for certain areas in Fly Casual.

If a GM wishes to not use that rule, it is his/her choice, but if using rules as presented, it's used quite often actually.

Either way, semantics. Game rules are a set of codified guidelines for a good interactive story telling. Use them, change them, ignore them or write new ones. Do what works for you and yours.

As for the OP, I too use the fact a x1 is restricted and a .5 is an illegal modification as well as using repair, refueling, docking and supplies costs. My party knew this and reacted accordingly. They have false credentials for the hyperdrive (just in case) and have access to the actual unit conveniently difficult to get to for inspections (there's a hidden access panel so as no the make their own lives difficult). Our player wanted a ship as fast as the Falcon, his character would just rather spend as little time in hyperspace as possible, preferring realspace.

I pretty much run it the way Ghostofman spelled out. If your GM is actually doing it to mess with you, let him know that his nit-picking and heavy handed approach feels adversarial is not appreciated and is lessening your enjoyment of the game. If he is not deliberately trying to be adversarial then, again, you need to let him know how it's affecting your enjoyment. Not all GM's intuitively know if what he/she is doing is upsetting the players unless they say something.

Either way, I hope things change enough, either way, for you and your group to get more fun from your sessions.

Additionally I MAKE it relevant. If travel time is always just a hand-waved cut scene with no impact on the events of the story, then hyperdrive class (and any upgrades bought) are meaningless. I find meaning and detail to be fun things that add depth and immersion to the game. So regardless of what PCs may or may not have spent their money on, travel time crops up in my game. Maybe it's simply whether or not they'll enter the penalty clause time for late delivery of goods, maybe it's whether their rival will make it to the planet ahead of them or vice versa. Either way, as a GM I consider these things - both before and, if they do so, after any special expenditure on a Hyperdrive upgrade. Doing so before makes it one more interesting option for customization. Doing so after rewards players for improving their situation. And in either case, makes the world more detailed and thus more immersive; as well as enables me as GM to be more neutral. When asked "do we make it to Lothal before the Imperial ship?" I can answer fairly, rather than just decide with no reason whether or not I want the players to succeed.

I totally agree knasserII, totally agree.

Also, time in hyperspace can have other in adventure reasons. The Orient Express as run aboard the Kuari Princess, find the killer before she exits hyperspace. Or the Clone Wars episode with the brain worms, or any number of other possibilities.

Regardless, they were included in the RAW for those who wish to use them.

It's irrelevant if that's how your GM wants to run it.

tbh,... thought so... we've decided via the Facebook chat window thingy not to fall into the trap of buying a .5 hyperdrive as he keeps suggesting 'You'll get there in half the speed' to which we will now reply with 'In the films it's a cut scene'

also he's factored in the ship maintainence book keeping 'rules' - next week, tongue in cheek, just as we start I'm going to place the PFRPG rules on the table saying 'Oh, sorry, I thought we were playing a rules heavy, feat taxing, book keeping RPG, not an abstract, plot driven, logo dice game... all in jest,,,, I seriously am hooked on EotE.

....and load up on sublight speed increase for ship combat, shields and upgraded turrets on the YT-1300 instead, not neccesarily in that order

Throw him a good wrench and tell him you've decided to just have someone be a good astrogator to help make up the difference. A triumph or 3 advantages and you shave 25% of your transit time, plus maybe have a hyperspace shortcut route you can sell. That only costs some xp, a 3 intellect and a 3 astrogation isn't much of an xp investment, but it can speed things up if it's that big a deal and at a real bargain.

To the OP... I've just started playing EotE 3 weeks ago- there's me and another player, Pilot & Technician.. and now 2 NPCs to boost up thr crew and gaps in our PC skills

Core Rules? Check! Fly Casual? Check!

I HEAR YA BRO!! just go with it,,,, our GM is factoring in various other d6, d20 or player made splat, we discussed upgrading the Hyperdrive but went with sublight instead for combat purpopses.

page 151.... CURSE YOU FFG

You need to throw the GM the occasional curveball back to keep him on his toes.. me and my fellow player, we just wing it

It's irrelevant if that's how your GM wants to run it.

tbh,... thought so... we've decided via the Facebook chat window thingy not to fall into the trap of buying a .5 hyperdrive as he keeps suggesting 'You'll get there in half the speed' to which we will now reply with 'In the films it's a cut scene'

also he's factored in the ship maintainence book keeping 'rules' - next week, tongue in cheek, just as we start I'm going to place the PFRPG rules on the table saying 'Oh, sorry, I thought we were playing a rules heavy, feat taxing, book keeping RPG, not an abstract, plot driven, logo dice game... all in jest,,,, I seriously am hooked on EotE.

....and load up on sublight speed increase for ship combat, shields and upgraded turrets on the YT-1300 instead, not neccesarily in that order

Throw him a good wrench and tell him you've decided to just have someone be a good astrogator to help make up the difference. A triumph or 3 advantages and you shave 25% of your transit time, plus maybe have a hyperspace shortcut route you can sell. That only costs some xp, a 3 intellect and a 3 astrogation isn't much of an xp investment, but it can speed things up if it's that big a deal and at a real bargain.

Which is precisely why I'm boosting Astrogation, then Piloting (Space) for ship combat up to 5 ASAP followed and any other relevant talents. \uu/

For some games 2P51 that is true, but no one shoe fits every foot. Not everyone thinks hyperspace should be handled with added hand-waivium (or speed-of-plot if you would rather).

I, for one, track game time rather studiously so travel times are an important side note for me. I have Rebellion members and I have specific missions that I have planned that were done in EU where I plan on redoing with my party. Using the galactic timeline as a guideline I'm trying to keep the events rather close if at all possible. This has very little bearing on the PC's, but it's an important (to me) bit.

<snip>

I just wanted to commend on this. As a player I would be wary of playing in your campaign based on this little snippet alone. Saying that you have specific missions and an entire set in time series of events planned for the party sounds a lot like a plot railroad. It can be fun for some players to sit back and enjoy the story, but unless the GM is willing to be flexible it can cause a lot of inter player frustration as the players attempt to go left and the GM constantly tries them to go right to keep "his story" on track.

I'm not saying that you do this and I hope you and your players are all on the same page but I still wanted to toss out that warning.

Here's a good example. On a failed astrogation with a couple of Triumph our group ended up in the middle of nowhere but there was a clone war ship battle field sitting there. Several ships were still partially intact. We explored a bit but moved on because we had a time crunch on our mission. Later we had some free time to come back. We wanted to salvage a bunch of old battle droids to re-purpose them into a construction force for some homesteading work on a planet. But when we returned there was an imperial construction fleet complete with guards that were pushing the wreckage into the sun. This place had gone undiscovered since the war and all of a sudden it's being cleaned up. So we were pushed back to the right and blocked from going left.

I agree that the GMs job can sometimes be like herding cats, but sometimes as the cat you just really don't want to go that way.

LOL, thank you for the warning. I've been gaming more than 30 years and GM'ing 25+. The only 'railroad' in my games is the one the players lay the track to.

I have certain missions I know my players would be interested in personally and would find interesting and fun for their characters (I've gamed with them fo several years) and have ideas as how to entice the characters as well. As I said, I'd like to keep the timeline as close as possible, but if not it's all EU/Legends anyway. None of the missions are too close together and I allow a lot of freedom for personal character growth and individual side stories/main quest lines.

I didn't get into all that in my previous post as it was irrelevant to that topic.

I thank you for the warning though. I have had players leave my games in the past and will in the future, 'tis the nature of bringing different personalities together to share in something everyone has differing opinins on. Most of the time a common ground can be cleared and all can have fun, but not every time.

Thanks again and keep them comming. It always helps when someone is honest enough to tell you what their concers are, and may even give you a perspective you haven't concidered.

Also, for the record... everything that I ever read stated that .5 hyperdrives were strictly military, and highly restricted...

Also, for the record... everything that I ever read stated that .5 hyperdrives were strictly military, and highly restricted...

which was based on WEG and the EU... which Disney wiped out.

Yeah, while we can probably safely assume .5 is still rare, until someone in a new canon stamped source says .5 is illegal, it's just not something purchasable off the shelf...