Hello All,

I have a player that wants to gain the advantages from some of the cybernetics in the game in the form of genetic enhancements. He's not min/maxing or anything and I'm generally inclined to allow it, but I'm having a difficult time coming up with appropriate rule system to avoid future problems with characters who will want to min/max.

Here's the concept:

The player wants the genetic modifications to cover the following:

Enhanced Strength: +1 Brawn (Identical to Cybernetic Arms)

Enhanced Agility: +1 Agility (Identical to Cybernetic Legs)

Enhanced Intelligence: +1 Intelligence (Identical to the Cybernetic Brain Implant without the built in Comlink and wireless access)

He's also looking at getting actual Cybernetic Eyes.

For the narrative in our story, I really don't have a problem with this as any character could get all the above through the base cybernetic rules and he's not abusing the system.

Here's some of what I've come up with for allowing genetic enhancements so far:

-- All genetic enhancements cost 5x that of their cybernetic equivalents.

-- A character Can NOT get a genetic enhancement to increase Brawn, then get cybernetic arms to further increase it. If this were to happen, the Cybernetic +1 would automatically factor into the characters natural enhanced strength and would provide no new bonus. I'm having trouble justifying this with the brain implant though...

I'm unsure how to place a limit on genetic enhancements... Many species in Star Wars use genetic enhancements for a multitude of different aspects. I don't really want to make a rule copying the cybernetic limit (though that would make some sense) or even limiting a total enhancement limit (total cybernetic and genetic enhancements equal to Brawn) because of the rather unlimited possibilities involved with genetic manipulation. Perhaps place a cumulative -1 permanent strain for each enhancement? Seems a bit much.

What does everyone else think?

Why make rules? Use the the cybernetics rules and just change the name from cybernetics to genetic enhancements and have the player describe in his description and background as to why and how he received the enhancements. He got his Brawn enhanced, then he is overly big in body size. He wants to get cybernetic arms, well guess what, you can but it's not gonna boost you in anyway due to the fact that the genetically enhanced limb is now gone due to the cybernetics replacing it.

Story telling would be the most important thing here, not rules.

Osprey has it right, just re-skin the existing Cybernetics and maybe add a premium in the form of Rarity (i.e.. cost) because it's so unusual.

Re-skinning is the way to go. As to why genetic modifications would count towards a PC's max cybernetic enhancements cap, the reason is that they make your physiology that much more unstable.

So once the cap is reached, your system will start rejecting enhancements, be they cybernetic or genetic. So min/maxing is out of the question.

Reskinning leaves the question of how Ion weapons interact with these obviously non-electronic enhancements.

Reskinning leaves the question of how Ion weapons interact with these obviously non-electronic enhancements.

That’s a simple one-line deletion, easily covered as part of a re-skin.

But you are right, it is important to cover this issue.

I'm kind of on board with just using the basic cybernetics cap for both cybernetics and genetic enhancements. As for the Ion issue, one idea I had is to take a page out of the Mass Effect series and make it so that any genetic enhancements use some form of micro cybernetic (I.E. Nanites or something) element. This is stretching things a bit since there are genetically enhanced species that wouldn't have this weakness, but it's the best thing I can think of.

I really don't like the base system rules for cybernetics and Ion damage. I just make the character take strain from Ion damage just like a droid. Personal house rule to just make life easier.

Under these concepts, any character with genetic enhancement OR cybernetics would take strain from Ion AND Stun weapons. What do you guys think?

Perhaps the increased cost of the genetic enhancements offsets the vulnerability to ion weapons? Just a thought...

Perhaps the increased cost of the genetic enhancements offsets the vulnerability to ion weapons? Just a thought...

Throw in a percentile for an accidental mutation of some sort could excuse that. The cheaper you go the more of a chance of being Quasi Motto you have.

Perhaps the increased cost of the genetic enhancements offsets the vulnerability to ion weapons? Just a thought...

Throw in a percentile for an accidental mutation of some sort could excuse that. The cheaper you go the more of a chance of being Quasi Motto you have.

LOL That definitely has interesting possibilities, but I'm not sure I'd want to go that route for a Star Wars game. I've got images of a horrendous mutation as a party member now... lol

Perhaps the increased cost of the genetic enhancements offsets the vulnerability to ion weapons? Just a thought...

Throw in a percentile for an accidental mutation of some sort could excuse that. The cheaper you go the more of a chance of being Quasi Motto you have.

LOL That definitely has interesting possibilities, but I'm not sure I'd want to go that route for a Star Wars game. I've got images of a horrendous mutation as a party member now... lol

Have you seen "The Clone Wars Bad Batch" or read anything about the Null ARCs? The Null ARCS are Legends of course, "Bad Batch" was a planned episode that never aired on TV.

Scale it to the amount, stuff like that happens when you play with genetics and can make for some good role playing, it can also curb abuse of altering genetics.

Anything from physical abnormalities to mental instabilities.

Under these concepts, any character with genetic enhancement OR cybernetics would take strain from Ion AND Stun weapons. What do you guys think?

I can see how this might make sense, especially since I came to this game straight from Saga Edition, but I personally like how ion weapons only affect cybernetics when they hit them, and that how they affect them is basically left up to the GM. I like wiggle room. I can interpret it as strain, but I'm not limited to strain as my only option.

For this reason, I wouldn't enact this house rule. If you want to keep things simple and keep action going and you can't think of anything regarding what happens when an ion weapon hits X cybernetic enhancement, just give them strain damage and keep it going. This creates a fallback option without forcing yourself to use the option in every circumstance.

Plus that, I have thrown ion weapons at my players exactly once. I haven't found them incredibly common, so it might be worth playing around with them a while before you make any changes to the rules.

Regarding genetic enhancements, I might just make it so that genetic enhancements trade vulnerability to ion damage for a heftier cost, and leave it at that.

Keep the cybernetic rules in place. Swap out the ion weapon immunity for some other minor penalty such as social stigma for splicing in wookie-DNA or whatever, or perhaps a single Setback Die on any rolls to resist disease or drug effects.

Under these concepts, any character with genetic enhancement OR cybernetics would take strain from Ion AND Stun weapons. What do you guys think?

I can see how this might make sense, especially since I came to this game straight from Saga Edition, but I personally like how ion weapons only affect cybernetics when they hit them, and that how they affect them is basically left up to the GM. I like wiggle room. I can interpret it as strain, but I'm not limited to strain as my only option.

For this reason, I wouldn't enact this house rule. If you want to keep things simple and keep action going and you can't think of anything regarding what happens when an ion weapon hits X cybernetic enhancement, just give them strain damage and keep it going. This creates a fallback option without forcing yourself to use the option in every circumstance.

Plus that, I have thrown ion weapons at my players exactly once. I haven't found them incredibly common, so it might be worth playing around with them a while before you make any changes to the rules.

Regarding genetic enhancements, I might just make it so that genetic enhancements trade vulnerability to ion damage for a heftier cost, and leave it at that.

The only rule I can find is on page 173 which states pretty flatly that if hit by an Ion weapon (or, more specifically, any weapon that affect only droids) cyberware ceases to function for the remainder of the scene or until repaired. Exactly how this affects the PC is left up to the GM, but as the example shows, if a character with cyber legs gets hit he should also not be able to walk. If there are any other references that loosen that rule, I would appreciate any references.

As for what Achalon mentioned, this is pretty much what our group discussed how to handle things with the addition of 3 advantage or Triumph can be spent to temporarily disable a cybernetic device if it's know about.

As for genetic enhancements, I agree with awayputurwpn, trade higher cost for any vulnerability to Ion weapons. I come from a long Shadowrun background so bio-ware (i.e. genetic modification) isn't a really big deal. It always costs more, has more limitations and still takes it's toll on the body (thereby limiting the number of modifications available). I would, personally, just use the number of enhancements a character can have is limited to Brawn, cybernetic or otherwise.

Have you seen "The Clone Wars Bad Batch" or read anything about the Null ARCs? The Null ARCS are Legends of course, "Bad Batch" was a planned episode that never aired on TV.

I have and it is worth it just for Anakin's reaction when he sees their ship. They have a WWII-bomber style painting of a girl on the nose. It's of a scantily-clad Padmé.

"That's not staying."

Have you seen "The Clone Wars Bad Batch" or read anything about the Null ARCs? The Null ARCS are Legends of course, "Bad Batch" was a planned episode that never aired on TV.

I have and it is worth it just for Anakin's reaction when he sees their ship. They have a WWII-bomber style painting of a girl on the nose. It's of a scantily-clad Padmé.

"That's not staying."

Knasserll, you know where that thread or link is, I think the OP may want to see it.

Duh, I found it... @Achalon, check out clone troopers that did not turn out right that are actually borderline canon. Then look at little Ani's face as he sees the nose art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wop0vjo40CA

The only rule I can find is on page 173 which states pretty flatly that if hit by an Ion weapon (or, more specifically, any weapon that affect only droids) cyberware ceases to function for the remainder of the scene or until repaired. Exactly how this affects the PC is left up to the GM, but as the example shows, if a character with cyber legs gets hit he should also not be able to walk. If there are any other references that loosen that rule, I would appreciate any references.

Yeah that's the piece of rules I was talking about. I agree that some cybernetic modifications make it plainly obvious what happens: a cybernetic hand or leg that is hit with ion is unusable, so give them the effects "Crippled" Critical Injury; a PC with cybernetic eyes gets hit in the face, take a page from the "Blinded" Injury.

But what about internal organs, brain implants, and any number of prosthetic replacements? Seems a bit cheap to say "Your brain stops working; you are now dead." Rather, I'd interpret such damage as strain damage (or possibly even wounds!) as the modification stops working and the body has to suddenly account for this fact.

But what about internal organs, brain implants, and any number of prosthetic replacements? Seems a bit cheap to say "Your brain stops working; you are now dead." Rather, I'd interpret such damage as strain damage (or possibly even wounds!) as the modification stops working and the body has to suddenly account for this fact.

For a cyber-brain upgrade hit by ion weapons, you could say that the PC suddenly feels dumber, and disconnected from the world. They might also lose access to certain memories or skills. I can see a whole host of side-effects from this that wouldn’t necessarily be fatal, and could provide good role-playing opportunities.

But that might just be my approach. YMMV.

Duh, I found it... @Achalon, check out clone troopers that did not turn out right that are actually borderline canon. Then look at little Ani's face as he sees the nose art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wop0vjo40CA

Ha! Yes, that's the one. The moment is actually near the start of the second episode (one of the links after the first one plays through) and yes, Anakin's face is great even despite the unfinished artwork. As the voices were recorded they theoretically have everything they need to go back and finish these episodes. I hope they will, one day. It would be nice to release the full set on Blu-ray.

The only rule I can find is on page 173 which states pretty flatly that if hit by an Ion weapon (or, more specifically, any weapon that affect only droids) cyberware ceases to function for the remainder of the scene or until repaired. Exactly how this affects the PC is left up to the GM, but as the example shows, if a character with cyber legs gets hit he should also not be able to walk. If there are any other references that loosen that rule, I would appreciate any references.

As for what Achalon mentioned, this is pretty much what our group discussed how to handle things with the addition of 3 advantage or Triumph can be spent to temporarily disable a cybernetic device if it's know about.

As for genetic enhancements, I agree with awayputurwpn, trade higher cost for any vulnerability to Ion weapons. I come from a long Shadowrun background so bio-ware (i.e. genetic modification) isn't a really big deal. It always costs more, has more limitations and still takes it's toll on the body (thereby limiting the number of modifications available). I would, personally, just use the number of enhancements a character can have is limited to Brawn, cybernetic or otherwise.

I agree with what you have said. We already have cybernetics rules so just reskin them (keeping the limits of both cyber and bio/gene ware) and give them a slightly different drawback. As its biological I whould say something like a set back dice on every heal check sa your body is more different than it should be.

Limit the amount of genetic enhancements a character can have, the more you tinker with your DNA the more chance of something going wrong.

Sterility should be mandatory, you wouldn't alter someone's genetics and then let it enter the gene pool uncontrolled. This could involve social stigma.

I would also consider severe long term side effects, as a reason why people opt for cybernetics. Rapid healing could result in tumours later in life, an enhanced brain might cause Alzheimer's after 40 years. Nothing that would effect the game life of your average character.

Could there be a risk that the enhanced tissue could be rejected, like an organ transplant?

You buy all these great upgrades but you need a constant supply of hard to find medicine X to keep on living.

Nanites could be an alternative without the drawbacks but has the vulnerability to ion.

Your player wants +1 agility.

That could come from an enhanced nervous system, it speeds up your reaction time but is vulnerable to electricity (ion)

You could always make an upgraded nervous system as a prerequisite for the other upgrades, otherwise the brain upgrade is like putting a Ferrari engine in the body of a skoda.

That way the cybernetics rules are a perfect fit, including ion.

I've seen the unfinished season 6 episodes, but I didn't know that they had those season 7 episodes. I just watched them all on youtube. I would love to see all those episodes finished (And I Loved that part with Anakin and the Padme Imagery). The Modified Clones are very interesting. Thanks for that.

I like what you guys have suggested.

Here's what I think I'm going to do:

Cybernetics and Genetics both use the basic Cybernetic rules with a few addendums/options.

1. Genetics multiply the cost by a factor of 5. I.E. - A genetic enhancement to increase Brawn +1 will cost $50,000.

2. Cosmetic or plain narrative enhancements are unlimited, (Changing hair or eye color, etc. - Basically anything that has NO game effect) BUT any enhancements that have a mechanical benefit use the cybernetic rules with a total enhancement and cybernetic limit equal to Brawn.

3. Base Genetic enhancements can choose 1 of the following two drawbacks:

A: Take a -1 per enhancement on all healing checks (i.e. a 5-pt stimpack would only grant 3 with 2 Genetic Enhancements) to a minimum of 1 pt (this way the characters always get some benefit from healing).

B: The addition of nanites fixes the healing issue, but creates a vulnerability to ion damage so the user takes strain from Ion damage from now on.

4. Typically, no character can get the same mechanical benefit from cybernetic and genetic sources (i.e. You can't get a +1 Brawn from Genetics then turn around and get a +1 Brawn from Cybernetics). I say typically, because logically I can see myself allowing this on the rare occasion, (But ONLY if it makes good narrative and logical sense AND is interesting without being overpowering) especially for NPC enemies.

This leaves me with a base set of rules to work with that are flexible enough for me to play with as a GM and will make the players happy but limiting enough to keep them from becoming overpowered.