I was wondering what people's opinions would be on having a sideboard for x wing? For those who don't know, a sideboard in magic is 15 cards that you can sub into your 60 card deck based on your opponent. So for x wing it could be something like 10-15 points that you choose with your list, and you can swap those upgrades for any other upgrades in your list when you see your opponents list.

It would mean phantoms could actually run something other than VI in every game, if their opponent has low ps ships, they could swap it out. Perhaps it would be nice to add in ordinance in some lists or swap your cannon to a different one based on a matchup.

I'm not saying this for what regional and up tournaments should be, but I think it would be a dun way to mix up local store tournaments to make them a bit different.

Problem is that MTG is played 'best 2 out of 3' and the games typcially play faster.
If you did a best 2 out of 3 for X-wing, a sideboard would be nice, but then you are looking at 3h rounds playtime. That's not going to work.

And you really can't sideboard before the 1st game. Imagine:

'I'm not taking VI because it's not needed'

>>'Ok because you don't take VI, I WILL take VI and now I have a higher pilot skill'

'Ok then I will change and WILL ALSO take VI'

>>'Ok then I will NOT take VI'

etc...

and if you say 'person with initiative chooses first' it will not work since because you change your squad, your point total can go up or down.

So it seems awesome, but I don't think you can implement it (in tournament scene anyway. In casual, sure)

Your not the first person to suggest something like this, but I just don't see it working out for X-wing where you can at a glance see what your opponent has.

In magic do you actually look through your opponents deck of 60 cards then sub in your counters or do you just see that he has a red deck and go from there??

I could perhaps see something like this working for torpedoes/Missiles

Say 10 points of free torps/missiles that you could add to what ever ship you have in your list...

Of course it would mess with MOV so I doubt something like this will ever happen

There have been a couple vassal tournaments where each player had two squads to choose from, and players knew their opponent's two squads. At the start of the match each player set a maneuver dial to a 1 or 2 maneuver that corresponded to each of their squads, and when both players were ready they'd reveal their choice. It was pretty interesting, and choosing an entire squad a little better than a set number of upgrades. You should try it at your store.

There have been a couple vassal tournaments where each player had two squads to choose from, and players knew their opponent's two squads.

I was going to mention this. I think it's a great way to run a tournament. It means you can bring that fun list you love but that has a hard counter that means you could never 100% win with it, which would lead to more variety.

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It also allows for two variations of the same squad with minor changes in upgrades/pilots. So it does the same thing as a sideboard, as well as allow for choosing between drastically different lists, like a Tie swarm and a fat falcon.

Bringing two squads isn't anything like sideboarding. That's like bringing two decks and doing no sideboarding.

Here's a way to do Magic-style sideboarding in a best-of-one X-Wing format:

Each player shows up with a written list of up to 150 points (just my suggestion) of ships and upgrades. Before each round, opponents share their lists with each other, and then go to different parts of the room (or wherever they can't see each other well) and then get 10 minutes (just my suggestion) to build their 100 point squads from their starting list.

This will add some time between game rounds and increases the amount of game components players need to lug around, so it's not a great idea for large events but will work just fine in small tournaments and casual play.

I thought of an different variant on this, but didnot implement it yet. I only play against my brother about once a week.

So my idea was, that each month, each of us selects a faction. Then, we both build a squad in secret and play against each other. We usually play until one of us concedes or gets tabled, but for that you'd have to play timed rounds.

After each round, each ship that survived has to be in next weeks squad. You could throw in more upgrades (say, add an Engine Upgrade when you had no modification before), or replace spent ordnance (even with different one), but other than that the ship stays. If you lost a unique one, then you are not allowed to take it in your squads this month any more.

That would mean, that if you have a good squad and not lost a single ship, you're getting to use that, but your opponent knows what you're flying. On the other hand, if you had a bad squad, you can start over.

I guess you could implement this in a league setting, but not in a tournament. Might help in creating new fun squads, and maybe there's one meta-braking squad to be discovered!

Bringing two squads isn't anything like sideboarding. That's like bringing two decks and doing no sideboarding.

Here's a way to do Magic-style sideboarding in a best-of-one X-Wing format:

Each player shows up with a written list of up to 150 points (just my suggestion) of ships and upgrades. Before each round, opponents share their lists with each other, and then go to different parts of the room (or wherever they can't see each other well) and then get 10 minutes (just my suggestion) to build their 100 point squads from their starting list.

This will add some time between game rounds and increases the amount of game components players need to lug around, so it's not a great idea for large events but will work just fine in small tournaments and casual play.

I've never played Magic. I was going by the description in the OP that has players bringing an 10-15 point of upgrades to swap into their squad. With that idea of a sideboard you could make two lists with all the same pilots but they're equipped with different upgrades. That seems much less time consuming than looking at your opponent's list options, then going off for ten minutes and reworking your list.

Keep your filthy TCG mechanics to your dang self.

I wouldnt mind a 2 list format. I would limit it to having to stay "In Faction"

One house-rule that I've seen in which the idea actually works? A variant of Escalation.

Essentially, it's played the same way as Escalation ever has, but your additions to your fleet between rounds isn't pre-determined, allowing you to counter-build other people in the league.

This again. To repeat my previous answers: HELL NO.

X-Wing and MtG are pretty much incomparable when to setting things up.

1. In MtG you play rounds as the best 2/3 and you MUST start each round with the same deck. Sideboards don't come into play until the second game.

2. In MtG you know NOTHING about your opponent's deck before the game starts. Even after the first game you may only know a small portion of your opponent's deck although a lot of preparation may give you a good idea what else in in a deck. In X-Wing EVERYTHING about the opponent's force is known at the start of the very first game.

3. In MtG a card is a card. That is certainly NOT the case in X-Wing where cards are far from equal is so many ways.

I also reject the idea of a "sideboard" in X-Wing because when you prepare to send your squadron out (build your list) you may have a good idea what it will encounter (the metagame) but when you finally DO encounter the enemy you do not get the luxury of retreating to pick up different things to use in the fight.

Now if FFG wants to do something sideboard like for ordnance I believe they could print out some stuff that could be used in one of two different ways. The thing is that I would not expect it to be very cost efficient in a general sense and only break even when on of the things it does can act as some kind of hard counter to a less common thing.

It may not be the same as MtG's Sideboard but I do believe that having a multi-list tournament is the closest thing that can really work. How similar the two lists must be to each other can be argued about from requiring no similarities (fly TIE Swarm and Fat Han as your lists) to something like saying both lists must use the same ship models or going even further and saying that X% of the points used by one must be in the other as well. You sit down at the table and hand your opponent your lists while he does the same and you both get a chance to briefly study them (no more than a minute or two) before you hand it back and each secretly decides which squadron will actually get played. This will certainly move things faster than having to "rebuild" a squadron every round out of some limited selection of piece as suggested early.

IMO if you are to do a sideboard...

You have 110-115 in points.

You show your ships/pilots, this stays the same each round.

You look at your opponent then decide what upgrades you will use. Once both sides decide upgrades then you reveal.

Downside is some lists like a Fat Han could really benefit. While a Interceptor list would be screwed cause they don't have as mush variety to choose from.

IMO if you are to do a sideboard...

You have 110-115 in points.

You show your ships/pilots, this stays the same each round.

You look at your opponent then decide what upgrades you will use. Once both sides decide upgrades then you reveal.

Downside is some lists like a Fat Han could really benefit. While a Interceptor list would be screwed cause they don't have as mush variety to choose from.

Yeah, that's the real problem with doing a sideboard. Some list really can't take advantage of it, while others can tailor their needs to counter their opponent.

IMO if you are to do a sideboard...

You have 110-115 in points.

You show your ships/pilots, this stays the same each round.

You look at your opponent then decide what upgrades you will use. Once both sides decide upgrades then you reveal.

Downside is some lists like a Fat Han could really benefit. While a Interceptor list would be screwed cause they don't have as mush variety to choose from.

Yeah, that's the real problem with doing a sideboard. Some list really can't take advantage of it, while others can tailor their needs to counter their opponent.

Another difference from MtG: Every deck can sideboard as easily as any other.

An Alpha-Strike fleet in this game benefits much more from a Sideboarding rule than a TIE Swarm...

Bringing two squads isn't anything like sideboarding. That's like bringing two decks and doing no sideboarding.

Here's a way to do Magic-style sideboarding in a best-of-one X-Wing format:

Each player shows up with a written list of up to 150 points (just my suggestion) of ships and upgrades. Before each round, opponents share their lists with each other, and then go to different parts of the room (or wherever they can't see each other well) and then get 10 minutes (just my suggestion) to build their 100 point squads from their starting list.

This will add some time between game rounds and increases the amount of game components players need to lug around, so it's not a great idea for large events but will work just fine in small tournaments and casual play.

I guess you've never seen a transformational sideboard then have you? You know, the decks that play one way to start with and then swap out ten or more cards to go with a completely different game plan. I'll give you that 80% of the decks contents may be the same but switching out some key cards can turn the deck into a completely different kind of beast. When game 3 comes around the opponent is stuck trying to figure out which deck he will be facing which is just like trying to figure out which one of two different squad lists you might be facing.

I've already pointed out the reasons X-Wing can't do a MtG style sideboard and the suggestion that you start with 150 points and then cut it down to 100 points is NOTHING like how MtG works. If you're just talking 150 points worth of components it may be even more absurd. Of course to be more like MtG you would only get 125 points to start with (15 card sideboard is 25% of the 60 card deck) but you'd then need to build without ANY information about what your opponent is playing instead of with perfect information.

I'm not sure how small an event would need to be if adding 10 minutes between rounds isn't going to have a noticeable effect. The complaints are generally there isn't enough time as is so cutting that to get in enough rounds will be really detrimental. Now if you have so few people that this is actually an option I'm not sure you can really call it a tournament and in a casual game you can just change squads between 'rounds' anyway.

StevenO, I think your first paragraph illustrates why a starting pool of 150 points in X-Wing is better than, say, 115 or 125. I think 150 points is a big enough starting pool to create significantly different types of squads, but not so drastic as starting with two completely different squads. (A swarm or a hammer-and-anvil are both possible from the same starting pool of 150 points, but changing factions is not.) This is because the points system in X-Wing works differently than the deck size in Magic. If it's possible to drastically change the character of a Magic deck with a sideboard of just 15 cards, then I think it's in keeping with the spirit of Magic-style sideboarding to allow a similar amount of flexibility in X-Wing, making sure to respect the differences in the way the two games weigh their components.

If it's not clear what I mean, I'll try to explain it another way. When sideboarding up to 15 cards in Magic, you can trade out 15 direct-damage spells for 15 highly defensive creatures. 15 cards may only be 25% of the total card count, but it allows for a significant difference in strategies. In X-Wing, you're bringing at most 8 ships, and more likely 2-5, based on the meta from the last year or so. Ships in X-Wing tend to cost somewhere between 12 and 50 points each, with many falling in the roughly 25-35 point range. In order to make significant changes to an X-Wing squad comparable to the level of flexibility allowed in Magic's sideboarding, I think you need something like 150 points worth of components (meaning ships and upgrades) in your starting pool, enough to shuffle around at least a ship or two, and not just cheap Headhunters and TIE Fighters or a few upgrades. Maybe 140 points is ideal. Whatever. It will take some experimentation to find the right number. I just think 125 is a bit too low to make any meaningful changes.

(I should note that I think the ability to make changes on the fly is a vital part of sideboarding. I have no objections to playing in a bring-two-squads format, but I wouldn't call that sideboarding. In keeping with RsRabin's original post, I'm trying to offer solutions to what's being asked. I'm not saying "have some potato salad" when being asked for extra ketchup.)

Actually, the sideboard idea is used for the rebels in the campagin that comes with the transport. The rebel player builds a list composed of 200 (?) points, and then chooses the right amount for the corresponding games. The imperial player builds his three lists (one for each round) without knowing what the rebel player will bring.

So you might want to look at the exact rules for that, but that's certainly similar to sideboarding (from what I took about that from this thread).

Saying it shouldn't be allowed because some lists won't benefit as much is the same as saying that Autothrusters shouldn't be allowed because now turrets won't fly with impunity. A 10-15 point side board would encourage more variety in our lists, not less. I thoughtthat's what everyone wanted. Or was it that you wanted more of YOUR type of list and LESS of the ones that fly well against them?