Just reading the descriptions in desperate allies makes it sound like this is a much better way to go than "armored clothing" in terms of not attracting attention, but let's say a character wearing this combo walks into a cantina... what exactly would be the dice pool for an average sentient in the cantina to notice they are wearing armor? does that sentient have to be actively looking the way they have to for armored clothing? Does the banal clothing which is supposed to encourage a wandering eye to keep wandering affect the difficulty of the perception check? If the second skin armor is superior (possible because of tinkerer talent) would that add an extra threat to the perception check what about superior banal clothing. Of course an easier way to get an extra point of soak is to get a banal clothing version of a kamperdine custom tailored armored jacket (see far horizons page 44, note the book says "Tailored to each customers exact specifications..." specifying that "I want it to be banal"). Obviously you would give up the free advantage to charm deception and negotiation checks except deception checks to avoid being noticed, but maybe it would add a threat to the perception check to notice the character wearing it. Thoughts?

I haven't seen this piece of gear since I don't have DA yet, but if the description calls for a Perception check specifically I'd say that the person making the check would have to be actively studying the character wearing it. I may be nitpicking a bit, but Vigilance is for noticing things you weren't looking for, while Perception is for actively searching.

And some random NPC looking at the character would probably have a Cunning of 2 and no ranks in Perception, making it 2 green dice to notice something's off.

As for the Kamperdine jacket I think you may be reading too much into the description when you say that making it "banal" (I assume that by this you mean anonymous, or something that won't stand out) would remove its ability to generate an Advantage. You can quite easily rationalize that the Advantage in question comes from something other than the jacket looking fly, like added confidence becasue the wearer feels well wearing it or something similar. The jacket is so hideously expensive it would be unfair to a player who bought it to take away the Advantage just because he didn't want to look flashy.

I got my copy of Desperate Allies yesterday

anyways the descriptions are

Banal Apparel (Desperate Allies page 47)

Stealth equipmen can render a person literally invisible to the naked eye, but sometimes simply fading into the crowd offers a more elegant and effective solution. Banal apparel is specifically chosen to encourage a wandering eye to continue to wander, allowing the wearer to hide in plain sight simply by avoiding attention. Opposing characters upgrade the difficulty of any checks made to identify the wearer once

defense 0, soak 0, price 25, encumbrance 0, hard points 0, rarity 0

Second Skin Armor (Desperate Allies page 49)

Like most types of armored clothing, second skin armor offers moderate protection while still enabling easy movement and flexibility. Unlike most forms, though, this variant remains remarkably thin and can often even be hidden under a layer of looser, non protective clothes, making it almost undetectable. The lightweight nature of second skin armor, however, carries a correspondingly higher cost without offering a measurable increase in protection. Add [2 setback dice] to a character's perception checks to notice second skin armor on the wearer. Models include: Peparix Second Skin, Aylixe/Krongbin Undershield.

defense 1, soak 1, price 2000, encumbrance 2, hard points 0, rarity 7.

Kamperdine Custom Tailored Armored Jackets (Far Horizons page 44)

Kamperdine Clothing Specialists is a small boutique manufacturer of custom clothing items based out of the Core Worlds region. Specializing in the use of fine and exotic beast hides. Kamperdine can produce a stylish and rugged piece of clothing from the skin of nearly any known creature in the galaxy. Their line of custom tailored armored jackets are their most popular and most expensive product. Tailored to each customer's exact specification, no two of these highly sought-after jackets are alike. Kamperdine can create a jacket to perfectly fit nearly any sentient species that wears clothes, and their client list is a who's who of politicians, entertainers, military and government officials, and various other flavors of galactic VIP. A custom Kamperdine jacket makes an incredible first impression, and is a sign that its wearer is an individual of impeccable taste. Kamperdine jackets are rarely found on the open market, and most individuals who purchase one go to their graves in them. They must be order directly from Kamperdine months in advance of their desired delivery date. Kamperdine Armored Jackets are each tailored to a specific wearer. When worn by that wearer, they add [1 advantage] to any successful Charm, Deception, or Negotiation checks the character makes (the GM may decide that the bonus does not apply in certain situations, such as dealings over a comlink).

Defense 0, soak 2, Price, 6200, Encum 1, hard points 0, Rarity 7.

Armored Clothing (Age of Rebellion Corebook page 184)

Available in a variety of styles from the workaday and utilitarian to ultra fashionable, armored clothing is an excellent option for those who need light, flexible protection. Armored clothing typically consists of various hides and textiles woven with layers of energy-dispersion mesh. While bulkier than normal clothing, armored clothing can be tailored to fit any taste and still retain its effectiveness. Lighter types rely solely on the energy-dispersion mesh and the strength of the material to provide protection, but more advanced types offer additional protection in the form of strategically located plastoid or ceramic armor plates sewn into the clothing. Reasonably subtle, it takes a thorough search of an individuals person to detect that he's wearing armored clothing, an action that requires an Average [2 purple dice] Perception check. Models Include: Ayelixe Fabrico Armorweave, AKT Tuff1 Combat Jumpsuit.

Defense 1, Soak 1, Price 1000, Encumbrance 3, Hard Points 1, Rarity 6.

So "banal" is a game mechanic which means "upgrade the difficulty of any checks to identify the wearer once" and flavor text means "diverts attention" rather than just "not flashy"

Regarding the dice pool for Second Skin... I get that the positive dice are based on the cunning ability and perception skill of the person making the perception check, that much is obvious, but what is the difficulty of the incoming perception check? I mean the base difficulty. What about when the wearer is deliberately trying to blend into the crowd, would their deception/skulduggery skill be used to set the difficulty? Would/should wearing banal apparel on top of the second skin armor have any effect on that dice pool? What about wearing a Kamperdine Custom Tailored Armored Jacket that was specified to be "banal" when it was ordered. Obviously this has to have happened in universe since entertainers are going to at least sometimes want to avoid the paparazzi. Normally a Kamperdine armored tailored jacket would grant an advantage on a successful deception check, what if the wearer's deception is setting the difficulty (negative dice rather than the positive dice)?

Ah yes, I see what you mean. I thought that perhaps the item description would list a difficulty but clearly it doesn't. In that case I'd make it a check based on how many other people are nearby - just a couple would make it an Average check, while a busy crowd could be Daunting. And then upgraded once for the banal outfit. This is the sort of scenario where the GM just has to make a call and roll some dice. Sure, you could use the player's Stealth or Streetwise skill as a difficulty too, that's again up to the GM's judgement.

Not sure it's a good idea to assign "banal" as a quality you can assign to other types of armour and outfits. I'd let a player wear Second Skin armour underneath, but that would be the limit. If you choose to dress in clothes made to blend in, you dress in those clothes and not a suit of armour. I routinely assign my players setback dice to various social checks and attempts to blend in if they're wearing obvious armour in "civillized" locations like urban centres and the like, so that's just how I roll.

And on that note I wouldn't necessarily disallow someone ordering a banal Kamperdine jacket, but it would be a monumental waste of money in my opinion. The jacket is designed to look great and impress anyone you're talking to, so to voluntarily pay the list price and give up those bonuses would be beyond silly, in my opinion. Still, if a player wanted to throw away his hard-earned credits on a stunt like that, who am I to stop him? Likewise I wouldn't let the player wear a Kamperdine jacket and use Deception to blend in unless he or she was in a group of extremely well-dressed people. If you want flash you buy Kamperdine, if you want to blend in you wear Banal Clothing. Pick one, is what I'm saying.

The primary reason for the banal kamperdine armored jacket is to get soak 2. Second skin armor doesn't have any hard points so you can't apply superior unless you first used the tinkered talent which is rather hard to come by. Now why might you really really want soak 2 from armor? So that you could take advantage of the improved armor master talent, while completely blending in (not drawing attention for wearing armor). I was a little afraid of wearing normal armored clothing because if you get searched at a door all it takes is an average perception check to determine that you were wearing armor and more importantly that you were trying to hide the fact that you were wearing armor. So my previous solution was a superior wing commander armored flight suit from stay on target. In that case you look like any other spacer wearing a flight suit (it's a utilitarian outfit with a legitimate purpose, keeping you alive in the event of a hull breach). And if someone notices that this particular flight suit is armored, well you weren't trying to hide it, and you've got a legitimate reason for wearing it, you're a spacer who didn't change out of his flight suit when you landed. Now it won't attract attention in a space port, but it will be memorable once you have attracted attention, and it will attract attention if you aren't in a space port. Now banal clothing over second skin is considerably harder to notice that you are wearing armor (at least 2 black dice harder), and the banal clothing means you aren't memorable in any crowd of common folk. With a banal kamperdine armored jacket you also get the benefit of improved armor master while hiding in plain site and not being memorable.

Oh and although I am the gm I dream of the day that I'll get to play a character named "Jacen Baurne" based off of Jason Bourne. Current plan is hired gun: demolitionist for the skill set, survivability, speed (rapid reaction) and and "last one standing" signature ability. Probably put spy:infiltrate on top of that and maybe either sharpshooter (2 copies of deadly accuracy for pistols and brawl) or commando.

If you want flash you buy Kamperdine, if you want to blend in you wear Banal Clothing. Pick one, is what I'm saying.

Actually if you want flash you by a "flare jacket"

Flare Jacket (Desperate Allies page 48)

Originally designed by a high-end clothes manufacturer for making literally flashy entrances, some organizations saw potential military use and contracted Ayelixe/Krongbing Textiles to produce a more intense version of their Personal Defense coat. Concealing several charges in seams throughout the design, the jacket can release a blinding and stunning flash of light, allowing the wearer a few seconds to make an escape. The internal power source is small and thus can take several minutes to recharge after each use. Once per encounter, a character wearing a flare jacket can trigger the charges as a maneuver. Each character within short range (besides the wearer) must make a Hard [3 purple] Vigilance check. Each character who fails is staggered for 1 round, plus 1 additional round per [3 threat]. Models include: Ayelixe/Krongbing Personal Defense Coat, Brennkeyes Syndicate flare jacket.

Defense 0, Soak 1, Price 1500, encumbrance 3, Hard Points 0, Rarity 8.

This sounds horrifically munchkiny.

The kamperdine jacket is supposed to be flashy and noticeable. Nothing 'banal' about it.

I think you're still missing the difference between the Banal Apparel and the Kamperdine jacket.

For the Kamperdine jacket, when it says "tailored to exact specifications", it means measurement-wise. You can still give them some input on the jacket, but they're still designing it to look as fantastic as possible. You're not getting social boosts for looking great if you ask them to make it look like you crawled out of the gutter, and in all likelihood, they probably wouldn't tarnish their reputation by making something look intentionally bland. So you're not stacking bonuses with Banal clothing, which is meant to make you not stand out.

Banal Apparel doesn't give you any extra boosts in hiding what's underneath. The Banal apparel just makes it so it's not as easy to pick you out based on the way you look, but people can still spot just as easily if you're wearing Second Skin armor underneath as if you were wearing normal clothing. So you still get both effects, but you're not increasing the default 2 Setbacks for spotting the Second Skin.

The primary reason for the banal kamperdine armored jacket is to get soak 2. Second skin armor doesn't have any hard points so you can't apply superior unless you first used the tinkered talent which is rather hard to come by. Now why might you really really want soak 2 from armor? So that you could take advantage of the improved armor master talent, while completely blending in (not drawing attention for wearing armor). I was a little afraid of wearing normal armored clothing because if you get searched at a door all it takes is an average perception check to determine that you were wearing armor and more importantly that you were trying to hide the fact that you were wearing armor. So my previous solution was a superior wing commander armored flight suit from stay on target. In that case you look like any other spacer wearing a flight suit (it's a utilitarian outfit with a legitimate purpose, keeping you alive in the event of a hull breach). And if someone notices that this particular flight suit is armored, well you weren't trying to hide it, and you've got a legitimate reason for wearing it, you're a spacer who didn't change out of his flight suit when you landed. Now it won't attract attention in a space port, but it will be memorable once you have attracted attention, and it will attract attention if you aren't in a space port. Now banal clothing over second skin is considerably harder to notice that you are wearing armor (at least 2 black dice harder), and the banal clothing means you aren't memorable in any crowd of common folk. With a banal kamperdine armored jacket you also get the benefit of improved armor master while hiding in plain site and not being memorable.

Did you see the illustration for the Wing Commander Armoured Flight Suit in SoT? You're worried that bouncers will catch you entering a club in armour if you put on your subtle and discrete Armoured Clothing, but they're fine with the WCAFS? Your group must frequent some strange clubs, is all I'm saying. Armoured Clothing isn't illegal, it's just subtle. No one is going to arrest you for wearing it even if they catch on, especially not if those same people would be fine with you wearing an armoured flight suit. I think you're overthinking this a lot.

A few things... i'm sure that in universe someone (a high profile entertainer with credits to burn) has had to ask for a banal kamperdine armored jacket, simply so they could have an easier time avoiding the paparazzi. Anything that looked like you "crawled out of a gutter" would attract attention anyway (stunningly bad), the point is to look average not bad. Anyone doing a close inspection of the banal kamperdine armored jacket (inspecting it after you took it off would see the quality of its construction).

When you're wearing multiple armors they don'the stack, but you take the higher defense (in this case 1 from the second skin armor) and the higher soak (in this case 2 from the armored jacket).

Exactly what about this is munchkiny... you're not getting the highest possible stats? You could get nearly the same effect with lower cost by getting superior armored clothing. But with the proposed approach banal apparael over second skin armor plus a banal kamperdine armored jacket you're paying 2225 credits more to impose 2 black dice on the perception check for someone to notice that you're wearing armor or maybe if you're making an opposed deception check there is a difference of 1 threat/advantage if the roll means that they don'the see you. And you get to upgrade the difficulty of checks to identify you once. That doesn't seem broken or munchiny to me.

No regarding wcafs, wearing armor isn't illegal, never said it was, I was talking about the roleplaying/social effect of being discovered that you are trying to HIDE the fact that you are wearing armor. It says that you are expecting trouble, and that you don't want anyone else to know that you are prepared for trouble which suggests that you are planning to start trouble and it's a fairly easy roll for someone searching you at the door of a cantina to make. In that situation something illegal is probably happening in the cantina and they might think that you are there to rob or kill someone inside. Now if you're wearing a flightsuit and get checked at the door, it doesn't suggest that you are an assassin/thief all it says is that you are a spacer, it doesn't even say that you are expecting trouble, you're just wearing a flight suit that you didn't change out of when you landed on the planet. And a flight suit isn't going to _attract_ attention in a space port. Yes you'd be noticed but then dismissed as "just another spacer" in a city with a lot of spacers. And you are correct that I over think things, heck I get paid well in real life to over think things (i'm a computational scientist that specializes in uncertainty quantification, I spend most of my time doing mathematical/computational modeling to calculate error bounds on the quantity of interest that a simulator that someone else already wrote is calculating... it pays for me to be detail oriented)

Yeah, a lot of the Desperate Allies clothing options are problematic.

The munchkin aspect comes from the fact that it's trying to game the system to get the highest stats regardless of if it makes sense narratively. Banal isn't crummy or common, it's specifically designed to keep the eye moving. Whether at a fancy dinner or a crowded market, the clothing is meant to keep you unnoticed.

Now...

• Could a character wear the Kamperdine under the Banal or vice versa with the right fluff and GM approval?

- Yes, but say goodbye to the benefits of the one underneath (other than defensive that is).

• Could a character create or have someone create a Banal Apparel Kamperdine Jacket?

- No, just like a character cannot have a Corellian Power Armored Clothing. It's nonsensical and full of cheese.

- However, it's very plausible that a GM could allow Banal Apperal to be made with the protective properties of the Kamperdine Jacket, for a cost. But again, it would lose the wondering eye benefit as the Kamperdine Jacket is specifically designed to show off.

I haven't seen this piece of gear since I don't have DA yet, but if the description calls for a Perception check specifically I'd say that the person making the check would have to be actively studying the character wearing it. I may be nitpicking a bit, but Vigilance is for noticing things you weren't looking for, while Perception is for actively searching.

Vigilance isn't for noticing things at all. Vigilance is reacting to things that are unexpected. Advantage on initiative may reveal information or the like, but otherwise nadda.

Perception is for noticing things, whether looking or not. It's even described as a "...passive, constant skill..." and even states "when he is not actively seeking."

Little off-topic but just thought I'd comment.

The munchkin aspect comes from the fact that it's trying to game the system to get the highest stats regardless of if it makes sense narratively. Banal isn't crummy or common, it's specifically designed to keep the eye moving. Whether at a fancy dinner or a crowded market, the clothing is meant to keep you unnoticed.

Now...

• Could a character wear the Kamperdine under the Banal or vice versa with the right fluff and GM approval?

- Yes, but say goodbye to the benefits of the one underneath (other than defensive that is).

• Could a character create or have someone create a Banal Apparel Kamperdine Jacket?

- No, just like a character cannot have a Corellian Power Armored Clothing. It's nonsensical and full of cheese.

- However, it's very plausible that a GM could allow Banal Apperal to be made with the protective properties of the Kamperdine Jacket, for a cost. But again, it would lose the wondering eye benefit as the Kamperdine Jacket is specifically designed to show off.

What does a jacket being designed to have protective properties have to do with it having a banal verses flashy appearance? The seem like independent axes to me.

As for narrative justification, sometimes célebrities wit credits to burn want comfortable clothes that protect them from harm and help them avoid the paparazzi. Narratively, (due to the size of the galactic market) they have had to get this request many times. These are celebrities who probably have multiple Kamperdine jackets. They got the banal ones because they liked the comfortable fit of the flashy ones so much and their protective properties.

Corellian power armored clothing that's a question of physical/engineering properties not styling, it's not an analogous example

What does a jacket being designed to have protective properties have to do with it having a banal verses flashy appearance? The seem like independent axes to me.

Nothing...except Banal Apparel has a defense and soak of 0...soooo...wan't that the whole point of the topic in the first place? Wanting the benefits of one, but the defense of others.

As for the rest, no one has said you couldn't do one or the other benefit wise. My point was just that Banal Apperal and Kamperdine Jackets aren't clothing "options," they are sets. Banal Stormtrooper armor wouldn't be Banal at all. It'd still be glaringly obvious as trooper armor, regardless of styling or paintjob. Kamperdine Jackets are specifically made with great care, superior materials, and obviously tailored to the wearer. Even if you ask them to make it look bland and normal it's still going to look well made.

Really though I just don't understand why, if you don't even want the Kamperdine Benefit, you don't just wear Taggeco Protector 1 Combat Armor (DC) under Banal Apperal.

• Defense 1, Soak 2, Price 5525, Encumbrance 4 (1 worn), 3 Hard Points, highest Rarity 7

• Special: Opposing characters upgrade the difficulty of any checks made to identify the wearer once.

Added Note:

I'm not trying to make any argument for or against anything. You asked for help on a forum, I tried to give my input. Overall, do what works best for your group. That's always the key to a fun campaign.

What does a jacket being designed to have protective properties have to do with it having a banal verses flashy appearance? The seem like independent axes to me.

Nothing...except Banal Apparel has a defense and soak of 0...soooo...wan't that the whole point of the topic in the first place? Wanting the benefits of one, but the defense of others.

As for the rest, no one has said you couldn't do one or the other benefit wise. My point was just that Banal Apperal and Kamperdine Jackets aren't clothing "options," they are sets. Banal Stormtrooper armor wouldn't be Banal at all. It'd still be glaringly obvious as trooper armor, regardless of styling or paintjob. Kamperdine Jackets are specifically made with great care, superior materials, and obviously tailored to the wearer. Even if you ask them to make it look bland and normal it's still going to look well made.

Really though I just don't understand why, if you don't even want the Kamperdine Benefit, you don't just wear Taggeco Protector 1 Combat Armor (DC) under Banal Apperal.

• Defense 1, Soak 2, Price 5525, Encumbrance 4 (1 worn), 3 Hard Points, highest Rarity 7

• Special: Opposing characters upgrade the difficulty of any checks made to identify the wearer once.

Added Note:

I'm not trying to make any argument for or against anything. You asked for help on a forum, I tried to give my input. Overall, do what works best for your group. That's always the key to a fun campaign.

I don't follow your reasoning, but that probably goes both ways, so I figured that I should try to explain _MY_ reasoning. I believe that "Banal" is appearance/styling, it's "average"/"nondescript" in that it's not noticeably good or bad, but more than that an "ensemble" whose appearance says [waves hand] "He can go about his business, move along" to the mind of anyone scanning the crowd. But as long as we're talking about clothing (in contrast to armor)...

Heavy Clothing (AoR core book, page 185)

Heavy clothing is just that - sturdy. well made articles of clothing built to withstand the rigors of life in the galaxy. While a thick hide jacket, reinforced mechanic's jump suit, or thick woolen cloak doesn't offer much in the way of protection from blast, bolt, and blade, it's certainly better than nothing. Most Rebels wear heavy clothing as day-to-day wear for its durability and style.

Defense 0, Soak 1, Price 50, Encumbrance 1, Hard Points 0, Rarity 0.

Note that this is clothing/apparel, i.e. definitively NOT armor, that provides soak 1 and specifically mentions a "thick hide jacket" which may be the nearest definitively-RAW analog to a "banal Kamperdine Custom Tailored Armored Jacket." Note that they're also described as "well made articles of clothing," i.e. they specifically mentioned high quality of construction, so "quality construction"/being-well-made doesn't set Kamperdine apart, at least not from a cursory examination but a close inspection of it while the person was not wearing it would. But I wouldn't count heavy clothing as "banal" per se because as mentioned it's a THICK hide jacket, it has a _noticeably_ heavy appearance, and _heavy_ can attract attention. Actually the nearest definitively RAW equivalent to a banal Kamperdine jacket is probably a "Catch Vest"

Catch Vest (Suns of Fortune, page 99)

Worn by many Corellians who live on the fringe, the innocuous catch vest has saved the lives of many free traders. Made of tightly woven energy absorbing fibers, the catch-vest is able to partially diffuse blaster shots. Indistinguishable from regular clothing, the catch vest is an excellent choice for those wishing to add some extra protection without advertising the fact. Catch vests have a soak value of 2 against damage from energy based weapons only; they provide only 1 point of soak against all other forms of damage.

Defense 0, Soak 2, Price 300, Encumbrance 1, Hard Points 0, Rarity 3.

which is definitively not "heavy" in appearance but it's only soak 2 against energy weapons, but I'm not sure that it could be described as "banal" either even though it is indistinguishable from normal clothing.The Kamperdine jacket is soak 2 against everything. The Kamperdine jacket (also described as a "piece of clothing" despite the use of the word "armored", the full quote is " Kamperdine can produce a stylish and rugged piece of clothing from the skin of nearly any known creature in the galaxy") is NOT described as heavy. From the description they could make a "rugged" nerf leather jacket and in terms of leather jackets you probably don't get more banal than "nerf" in the star wars galaxy.

Now, some banal apparel ensembles ("sets" as you call them, but I wouldn't call a jacket by itself a "set") must include a jacket, one that is not noticeably heavy. So pick one of those ensembles. It would take a very skilled tailor (e.g. Kamperdine) to mimic the appearance of one of those not heavy banal jackets while still providing protection. I mean someone "could" (as in it's physically possible) certainly also make a catch vest to order, but those seem (at least to me) to be mass produced, and finding someone who would actually take the time to have one make one match a particular style seems difficult, but a Kamperdine jacket is specifically made to order, and they are specifically findable.

I'm not sure RAW says one way or the other about whether a Catch Vest would interfere with the effects of banal apparel, I could see it argued either way. But in this case I tend to come down on the _strict_ side of things, and just say no.

So from MY point of view, the person would be paying 5900 extra credits (extra meaning more than a 300 credit catch vest) to 1. get the second point of soak to apply to everything instead of just energy weapons, and to 2. to make sure that the appearance of the jacket/vest does NOT disrupt the rest of their "banal" apparel ensemble. And they would give up the normal effects (+1 advantage on successful charm, deception, and negotiation checks) of a Kamperdine jacket for making it Banal.

And, again I don't see the logic (narrative or in terms of game balance) of disallowing that, while allowing someone to wear banal apparel over the Taggeco protector armor that you mentioned. Have you seen the picture? Other than an all temperature cloak, I wouldn't allow any clothing that a character was wearing over it to even hide the fact that they were wearing the armor, and even then they'd be taking setback dice just to hide the fact that they are WEARING ARMOR, and you can completely forget about it looking "banal." But that's just me.

Did I do an adequate job of explaining my "logic"? Were there holes in it that you disagree with?

BTW from the description of armored clothing,

armored clothing can be tailored to fit any taste and still retain its effectiveness. Lighter types rely solely on the energy-dispersion mesh and the strength of the material to provide protection,

I can see an argument for making in "banal" but it would still be easier to spot than the second skin armor.

Did I do an adequate job of explaining my "logic"? Were there holes in it that you disagree with?

I already said my two cents and there's no reason to really continue as I said before, it's whatever best suits the group.

I really don't understand why post a scenario to the forums for opinnions if you are already really set in your interpretation.

You may have last word if you would so like.

Did I do an adequate job of explaining my "logic"? Were there holes in it that you disagree with?

I already said my two cents and there's no reason to really continue as I said before, it's whatever best suits the group.

I really don't understand why post a scenario to the forums for opinnions if you are already really set in your interpretation.

You may have last word if you would so like.

Sorry, I meant no offense, my social skills are a little sub-par (a mild case of Asperger's, yes an official medical diagnosis, mild enough that most people tend to not recognize it as an inbuilt deficiency and instead think I'm deliberately rude) my primary reason for starting this thread was to ask about the difficulties for the relevant checks, since the text about that was more than a little lacking. I wasn't asking if it was an appropriate interpretation/good call. However, I do have an open mind and I am willing to be convinced that I make a bad call when there is a "good" argument (where "good" means one that I can follow), but I genuinely wasn't following your logic (I didn't and still don't see how your arguments support your conclusions, I'm not saying that they don't make sense, but rather that they don't make sense TO ME), which is why I was _genuinely_ asking for further elucidation. FYI having a mental impairment (such as Asperger's) is NOT synonymous with low intelligence, I score very high on IQ tests, but sub-par on "emotional quotient" tests.

You may have last word if you would so like.

This is the guy who made a 'Jason Bourne' specialisation that combined the best bits of half-a-dozen different specs.

Munchkins gonna munchkin.

If he wants his Powered Armour Banal Cortosis Kamperdine Jacket of Invisibility, nothing's stopping him. I just don't want that kind of cheese at my table.

Honestly, EoE is very easy to 'game'. The system assumes you're a grown-up who plays with common sense.

I thought you couldn't stack armor?

I thought you couldn't stack armor?

You can't "stack" armor, soak is not additive, defense is not additive, but you do take the larger of each.

You may have last word if you would so like.

This is the guy who made a 'Jason Bourne' specialisation that combined the best bits of half-a-dozen different specs.

Munchkins gonna munchkin.

If he wants his Powered Armour Banal Cortosis Kamperdine Jacket of Invisibility, nothing's stopping him. I just don't want that kind of cheese at my table.

Honestly, EoE is very easy to 'game'. The system assumes you're a grown-up who plays with common sense.

Did you read that thread to the end? The motivation for designing the spec was to get an appropriate skill set, and talents were an add on. Donovan Morningfire pointed out that I was being too literal in translating what I saw on screen into talents and I down graded the talents and eventually scrapped the spec entirely in favor of the demolitionist which actually had a fairly good match in terms of skills. BTW, People in the thread were saying to choose an official spec based on skills, but the specs they were suggesting weren't a good match for skill set. I went back through every spec looking at skill lists and found the demolitionist matched fairly well (ideally it would be one skill different, but I decided it was close enough). I had previously discounted demolitionist based on the name (but apparently everyone else did too because no one suggested it). Admittedly I have a problem with being too literal, it is a deficiency hardwired into my brain (look up Asperger's). And the reason I had posted the Jacen Bourne thread was because I was worried that I had made it too good and I was asking for help in making the custom spec be not too good, but the answer I was predominantly just don't use custom specs which wasn't helpful because no one suggested a viable alternative

Not tryna argue with you, dude. Your table, your rules. EoE is very easy to 'optimise'. We've been playing since the game came out and a few characters are over 1000 XP. And I could create a starting character that could 'own' any of them in combat, easily. Because they created people living in a SW universe, not an MMO cipher designed for 'DPS'.

I think it's old ground, but no one specialisation will cover a veteran hero from a movie. There's no 'Batman' spec. You'd have to go into half-a-dozen specs to cover the things that James Bond can do on-screen. And as Donovan pointed out, just because someone drives a car in a movie doesn't mean they have Pilot/Planetary 5 and the Driver spec. Simply put, you cannot start out with Jason Bourne, nor should you be able to.

It just feels like a lot of what you post is ignoring the point. The whole point of a Kamperdine Jacket is to be flashy, not to protect you. A character wearing armour is saying one thing. A character wearing Kamperdine Jacket is saying quite another; that's why it's in the Diplomat's book. Someone wearing Banal Clothing is saying something else. Trying to stack the best qualities of everything feels as cheesy as all hell. You may as well ask for a blaster pistol that shoots lightsabers.

There are one or two outfits like the Second Skin that are designed for this specifically. But otherwise wearing different sets of armour at once is completely defeating the object and feels very munchkiny. Especially when the Kamperdine Jacket and Banal Clothing are designed for the exact opposite purpose. A flashy jacket that makes you noticed, that is somehow easily overlooked, is narratively ridiculous. Just dress according to the situation; wear a flashy suit to a party and armour on the battlefield.

I really think that banal clothing needs to be location specific. The outfit that lets you fade into the background on Planet X might make you a spectacle on Planet Y. Since banal clothing is typical very easy to locate and dirt cheap, you just buy it when you need it and then dispose of it afterwards.

"A custom Kamperdine jacket makes an incredible first impression, and is a sign that its wearer is an individual of impeccable taste. Kamperdine jackets are rarely found on the open market, and most individuals who purchase one go to their graves in them. They must be order directly from Kamperdine months in advance of their desired delivery date. Kamperdine Armored Jackets are each tailored to a specific wearer. When worn by that wearer, they add [1 advantage] to any successful Charm, Deception, or Negotiation checks the character makes (the GM may decide that the bonus does not apply in certain situations, such as dealings over a comlink)."

Doesn't sound very "banal" to me.