Purchases on Ebay are used for 2 reasons.

1. Finding something that is exceptionally difficult to get a hold of (due to being out of print, sold out, ect.) and have enough spendable finances to acquire something like it.
2. Trying to get something for a lesser price than what it would cost to purchase it from the retailers and distributors.

I would say that most of Ebay business is the latter not the former. Thus judging a value on the secondary (grey)market could be an inaccurate measure of the market. Also it may show that the demand is not as high so such a thing will not be needed.

Netrunner doesn't have that much of a secondary market and that is a card game. Even though the core set doesn't have 3 of each (the maximum number of a card in a deck) you still don't see that much of a deal with Aseops Pawn Shop or San San City Grid on the market. Most people will just buy the 2nd and 3rd core set and use the extra core cards for making multiple decks.

FFG doesn't play by the Wizzards of the Coast market model. The whole purpose behind random boosters is to make ever card sell-able. X-wing does have some random elements but that is in the dice and the occasional flipped up damage card. If you want the thrill of seeing a high rarity tier card coming out of a pack you are playing the wrong game.

If you want the thrill of seeing a high rarity tier card coming out of a pack you are playing the wrong game.

I didn't see a single person anywhere in this thread that asked for anything remotely like that.

NOBODY here asked for booster packs of random cards.

If you want the thrill of seeing a high rarity tier card coming out of a pack you are playing the wrong game.

I didn't see a single person anywhere in this thread that asked for anything remotely like that.

NOBODY here asked for booster packs of random cards.

but X-wing is still not a card game.

I've got 99 problems and FFG not selling card-only packs ain't one.

This post begins on something of a tangent, but it gets onto answering that question later on....

What pilot skill is John Galt?

He was shot down over the first Death Star, by the greenest Academy Pilot to survive powering up.

but X-wing is still not a card game.

Well, that's true.

But the fact that that is the going rate on ebay means there is. Otherwise, they wouldn't charge that much for it. Because they make their money selling cards at prices that a sufficient number of people are willing to pay.

If people weren't buying them for $6 they wouldn't charge that much.

If companies could charge the prices eBay charges, they would.

Count the number on eBay. There's what, 100 at most? That doesn't even make a dent in the number of units FFG shifts.

And you talk down to people while spewing incorrect garbage. And you think being "civil" makes it okay for you to do that.

You really didn't like being told to calm down after you started hurling f-bombs, did you?

I've also yet to see you expose anything as incorrect short of a few flights of semantic pedantry.

Count the number on eBay. There's what, 100 at most? That doesn't even make a dent in the number of units FFG shifts.

Do you think that amount reflects the number of people willing to pay? Or the number of people who have cards they're willing to get rid of?

You trying to pass off false statements with "Obviously that's not what I meant" isn't semantics. It's backpedaling.

You trying to pass off false statements with "Obviously that's not what I meant" isn't semantics. It's backpedaling.

If someone says "nobody will buy this" in common parlance that means that the number of people that would small to the point of neglibility. The same is true for pretty much every statement starting with "nobody will." You can say "nobody will eat this" to indicate that some food is highly unappetizing. If they then reply with "yeah well this starving homeless person will" that doesn't make the food any less unappetizing.

Similarly, pointing out a small amount of people willing to pay inflated prices for little cards does not make it a market big enough for FFG to exploit, and certainly not one bigger than their blister market. You're just nitpicking phrasing by taking it in the absolute literal sense rather than the colloquial sense. If all you've got left to defend your assertion that FFG can sell a non-randomised card for $2 (that is your assertion, no?) is to jump on anyone who says "nobody will buy this" by holding up a group photo of the More Money Than Sense club then maybe your position isn't as strong as you think it is.

Do you think that amount reflects the number of people willing to pay? Or the number of people who have cards they're willing to get rid of?

I'm going to assume you understand how market economics works and what a demand curve is for the next part.

The fact that there are cards listed up there in significant numbers means that number of people selling is somewhat more than the number of people buying. If there was demand for price gouged cards in excess of supply they'd sell out very quickly indeed. The people selling these overpriced cards on eBay are using a market skimming strategy, which I'll explain further on.

Groups like Team Covenant and a few others buy blister to split and sell the cards from and groups buying in bulk like this dominate the secondary market. People selling off their spare Autothruster barely register. Their supply cost is somewhat fixed by FFG. In order to turn a profit, they have to sell the goods for more than it costs to get them.

Take our StarViper. It's a specific case but the story is similar for other models. Worse even, as they come with fewer upgrade cards. It comes with the model, the tokens, the dial, Virago, Hull Upgrade, Autothrusters, Autothrusters, Inertial Dampeners, Ion Torpedoes, Accuracy Corrector, Calculation and Bodyguard.

Because these components are all fixed, anyone can get all of them by buying the StarViper from FFG, and for much better value. This limits selling options severely, especially when you look at the components more deeply and realise that a lot of them simply aren't going to sell at all. The people who will buy these cards are, by and large, people who aren't going to buy the StarViper. Furthermore, the people looking for singles on eBay are usually fairly well informed in the sense that they either know the game or are copying meta-lists, so they're not going to buy cards they likely already have or which they don't see as powerful enough to justify paying a premium for.

The model itself you need to cut a fair bit in price to get people to buy it without the cards. The tokens and dial usually go with that, as do the pilots (they're useless without the ship). You've then got to make up the rest on the upgrade cards.and turn a profit large enough to make this worth your time.

Virago's StarViper only and unique, so anyone with a Viper already has it and and anyone without a Viper can't use it. Calculation you could sell but it not being a meta-loved card I doubt people will pay much for it. How many people go in eBay looking for Calculation? The same can be said for Ion Torpedoes, it's expensive ordnance. Bodyguard and Inertial Dampeners? Scum only, and if you're playing Scum you're much more likely to use the Viper if you buy it. Hull Upgrade is common: both the Scyk and Imperial Aces have it. None of these cards are likely to make much. This leaves us with the Accuracy Corrector and Autothrusters. Both of these'll be in demand from Imperial Only players for the TIE advanced and the TIE interceptor.

Three cards that are likely to have decent demand. Three cards to make back the rest of that StarViper. You've got to sell them high because you won't make back the blister cost if you don't, and you've got to sell higher because breaking even is broadly speaking a wasted exercise. You've got no choice but to sell high. Here's where the demand curve comes in.

At a low price, a lot of people will buy your product. As you raise the price, the number of people willing to pay that much goes down. There will be a few people willing to pay an insane price, but they're so few that you make significantly less than selling it more cheaply to far more people. Good marketing involves finding the optimum price on this curve with respect to your supply costs.

The eBay sellers are using a strategy called market skimming: selling to that small percentage of buyers willing to pay a lot for cards. The vast majority turn away from the crazy prices but the small number willing to pay do and that allows the eBay sellers to make their money back. It's a small market but they're small sellers.

Even then, the cards sell slowly and the number of transactions is tiny compared to FFG's sales. X-Wing does not have the flourishing secondary market MTG has because the non-random distribution model doesn't lend itself to it: you don't get those huge Mythic Rare sales to subsidise all the cheap commons you're selling and you're capped in price in that if you charge too much people'll just buy the blister.

FFG, however, is mass market. They need a big market to operate. They can't skim because even though they'd make a lot per sale on $2 upgrade cards they number of sales compared to blister sales would be tiny because most people would not pay $2 for a card with some reference text on it. Nor would they pay $10 for 5 cards. In the LCGs there are 60 cards in the little Data Packs and far more in the big boxes. In X-Wing and Armada you're buying the model. This adds the perceived value you need for most people to buy them. Again, X-Wing is mass market, the elite tournament scene frequenting these forums really doesn't make up that much of it. You've got to think like the casual player that makes up most of X-Wing's market.

Sure, you'd buy packs like that or so you claim, but there aren't enough of you to make it commercially viable.

What I'm really looking forward to in Wave 7:

• The Hound's Tooth/YV-666 Light Freighter
• The Nashtah Pup
• Glitterstim
• Twin Laser Turret
• Cluster Mines
• Conner Net
• Extra Munitions
• Twin Ion Engine card

What I'm not looking forward to in Wave 7:

• K-Wing
• TIE Punterdictor
• Having to buy these ships (possible multiples of these ships) to get the upgrades I want to use elsewhere

I'm a very aesthetically driven player; I'll use the ships I like the look of, or that I like the theme for. I really have no intention of ever using a K-Wing or Punisher. It irks me to no end that some of the most promising upgrades in the wave will only be available with these ships (in fact, a lot of the upgrades in the Hound's Tooth/Kiraxhz pack are recycled cards from previous expansions).

This is my own problem to deal with, I know, but even so. I love flying Emon Azzameen. I'd love to give him multiple Cluster Mines or Conner Nets. That isn't going to happen though, not until they become available elsewhere.

So; yeah.

I'd be happy to pay for an X-Wing "Modifications" card pack, or a "Bombs" card & tokens pack, or even an "Elite Talents" pack. But I won't be shelling out for a ship I won't ever use just to get at these upgrades.

With bombs you kind of have to put them in ships because of the huge tokens they need.

Not sure about that one - I don't believe any of the bomb tokens (even the Conner Net) are larger than a Pilot Card.

I think Conner Net is, Cluster Mine definitely is, and they need to leave some space around the outside. Furthermore, punchboard is thick.

I could see a Supplies box with lots of non-unique upgrades in it, say, a copy of every previous non-unique mod, punchboard tokens for bombs and Extra Munitions, maybe a few new cards if they want to push it a bit. The problem here is you'd probably need to package a few waves worth of content in it, so they'd likely be annual at best.

I think Conner Net is, Cluster Mine definitely is, and they need to leave some space around the outside. Furthermore, punchboard is thick.

I could see a Supplies box with lots of non-unique upgrades in it, say, a copy of every previous non-unique mod, punchboard tokens for bombs and Extra Munitions, maybe a few new cards if they want to push it a bit. The problem here is you'd probably need to package a few waves worth of content in it, so they'd likely be annual at best.

Cluster Bombs is three separate tokens which are placed together, if I recall correctly. Hopefully we'll find out for sure today! The Conner Net is certainly the biggest game token so far.

Anyway, a supplies box is a great idea. I know FFG like using upgrade "hooks" for people to purchase specific ships, but another source for rare upgrades would be welcome as well.

Might have to wait for the next Aces box, though...

If someone says "nobody will buy this" in common parlance that means that the number of people that would small to the point of neglibility.

Yes, but that's STILL wrong. I wasn't even nitpicking in the first place. Because not only was the thing you actually said wrong, but the thing you intended to say was also wrong.

Yes, but that's STILL wrong. I wasn't even nitpicking in the first place. Because not only was the thing you actually said wrong, but the thing you intended to say was also wrong.

No, it's not. The suggestion that FFG could market a successful product consisting of five half size, non-random X-Wing upgrade cards for $10 is ludicrous. They'd be laughed out of GenCon.

There's no such thing as a mass market tabletop miniatures game. The entire hobby is niche to begin with.

X-Wing's what, number 2 globally now? It's way bigger than its tournament scene and it can't afford to skim markets like eBay blister splitters do.

X-wing can be found in Barnes and Noble. What other miniature game can be found in such a large, and mainstream venue?

If you want the thrill of seeing a high rarity tier card coming out of a pack you are playing the wrong game.

I didn't see a single person anywhere in this thread that asked for anything remotely like that.

NOBODY here asked for booster packs of random cards.

But won't they feel random or arbitrary to you?

You don't think they would package all the best cards together do you? Then only the "good" pack would fly off the shelves. Leave out any single upgrade from this model, and you'll upset the people seeking that card.

They would have to evenly distribute the "best" cards into as many packs as they could.

Your pack of 5 cards will then be Autothrusters, Saboteur, Enhanced Scopes, Swarm tactics, and Homing Missiles.

Want 2 autothrusters? Receive two saboteurs. Worth every penny?

Or for $10-15 you could have had Virago, Hull Upgrade, Autothrusters, Autothrusters, Inertial Dampeners, Ion Torpedoes, Accuracy Corrector, Calculation, Bodyguard, and a model ship with pilot cards and tokens.

That is a good point - however, B&N is dying a slow and painful death so that might not be the best example. I've only ever heard of people buying from B&N if they are having a crazy sale or as desperation for multiples or otherwise hard to finds (Falcons, Firespray many months ago)

I first saw X-Wing Core in Target and that piqued my initial interest. I've not seen a core set there in quite a while though and never any kind of expansion.

But won't they feel random or arbitrary to you?

You don't think they would package all the best cards together do you? Then only the "good" pack would fly off the shelves.

Well, my personal preference is for them to just allow you to order individual cards from their online store.

But barring that, I would think thematic packs based around specific ships would be the way to go.

"Here's the TIE Interceptor Upgrade Pack. Comes with Royal Guard TIE, Autothrusters, Shield Upgrade, Push the Limit"

"Here's the TIE Advance Upgrade Pack. Comes with TIE Advance 1X, Advanced Targeting Computer, Proton Rockets, Twin Ion Engine Mk.II"

"Here's the TIE Bomber Upgrade Pack. Comes with Extra Munitions, Plasma Torpedoes, etc, etc."

X-wing can be found in Barnes and Noble. What other miniature game can be found in such a large, and mainstream venue?

That is a good point - however, B&N is dying a slow and painful death so that might not be the best example. I've only ever heard of people buying from B&N if they are having a crazy sale or as desperation for multiples or otherwise hard to finds (Falcons, Firespray many months ago)

I first saw X-Wing Core in Target and that piqued my initial interest. I've not seen a core set there in quite a while though and never any kind of expansion.

It is still higher exposure than any other miniature game.