No, I mean Doesn't Understand The Difference Between "Offers For Sale" and "Forces Customers To Buy" Guy. Or possibly Doesn't Understand There Are No Must-Have Cards Guy. Or even Low Post Count And Has Nothing But Ngative Things To Say Guy.

I suppose that's better than being "Pay To Win Guy" or "Elitist **** Guy".

No, I mean Doesn't Understand The Difference Between "Offers For Sale" and "Forces Customers To Buy" Guy. Or possibly Doesn't Understand There Are No Must-Have Cards Guy. Or even Low Post Count And Has Nothing But Ngative Things To Say Guy.

I suppose that's better than being "Pay To Win Guy" or "Elitist **** Guy".

Pay to win? You must be thinking of Attack Wing. We don't have that here.

Sith have mercy...

That's.... that's my cat.

Is it your armchair too?

No, I mean Doesn't Understand The Difference Between "Offers For Sale" and "Forces Customers To Buy" Guy. Or possibly Doesn't Understand There Are No Must-Have Cards Guy. Or even Low Post Count And Has Nothing But Ngative Things To Say Guy.

I suppose that's better than being "Pay To Win Guy" or "Elitist **** Guy".

How about "Whiny Complaints Guy"? Or, "I Feel Entitled To Whatever I want Guy"?

No, I mean Doesn't Understand The Difference Between "Offers For Sale" and "Forces Customers To Buy" Guy. Or possibly Doesn't Understand There Are No Must-Have Cards Guy. Or even Low Post Count And Has Nothing But Ngative Things To Say Guy.

I suppose that's better than being "Pay To Win Guy" or "Elitist **** Guy".

How about "Whiny Complaints Guy"? Or, "I Feel Entitled To Whatever I want Guy"?

I don't think that X-Wing is "pay to win" when you can be extremely competitive with a build that was out since Wave 2 (or so, I forget exactly was in each wave) in the 4 B-Wing build. TIE swarm. Still good and been around since day 1.

So, hypothetical pack with a new named rebel Y-wing pilot, new tie bomber pilot and say 8 upgrades including some of the new ordinance from wave 7.

Whatcha willing to pay?

No, I mean Doesn't Understand The Difference Between "Offers For Sale" and "Forces Customers To Buy" Guy. Or possibly Doesn't Understand There Are No Must-Have Cards Guy. Or even Low Post Count And Has Nothing But Ngative Things To Say Guy.

I suppose that's better than being "Pay To Win Guy" or "Elitist **** Guy".

Given you have to pay for the game to play the game (or whoever's stuff you're using did) you kind of do need to pay to win. You can't play the game without buying any pieces.

So, hypothetical pack with a new named rebel Y-wing pilot, new tie bomber pilot and say 8 upgrades including some of the new ordinance from wave 7.

Whatcha willing to pay?

Two pilot cards and eight upgrades? Or in physical terms, two cards and eight little cards? That's significantly less than an MTG booster, which is the nearest comparable thing. People aren't going to pay much for that at all. Maybe people on this forum who are majorly into this game might, but I severely doubt that the FFG forum's userbase constitutes anything more than a small minority of FFG's sales base for X-Wing. Similar amount of design work needed as for a blister pack, vastly smaller revenue, possibly unviably low revenue.

I understand the desire for card packs: in a tournament you need to a copy of every component you want to use and FFG's model of a ship with its pilots and interchangable upgrade cards does create some silly situations where people buy TIE defenders for copies of Predator or StarVipers for Autothrusters. From a purely business standpoint this is good: you're selling more blisters, who cares why they're being bought?

However, FFG's past activity has suggested they don't have this "money is the only object" attitude. Remember the Maneuver Dials issue with Most Wanted? A good case was presented by enough people and they backed down it. Maybe if enough of the tournament community asked them to allow limited proxying (say, you need clear proxies and at least one copy of the real thing to prove rules text) they might change their mind.

Bear in mind that while they demand the official components firstly so you actually buy the game, the rest of the reason is likely to prove the rules text to players who haven't seen that card before: free upgrade card proxying gives a sizeable window for fake rules text. If the purpose of the upgrade card's current distribution model was to maximise expansion sales they wouldn't have put two Autothrusters in the StarViper or four sets of ATC and TIE/x1 in the Raider. They'd have done one.

So, hypothetical pack with a new named rebel Y-wing pilot, new tie bomber pilot and say 8 upgrades including some of the new ordinance from wave 7.

Whatcha willing to pay?

I know this isn't exactly the question you're asking, but the reason I don't it's a good idea from FFG's perspective is that what you're describing is an Aces pack without the plastic. But the development costs on new content are pretty high.

In order to overcome that, I think they'd need to charge something like $15-20 to make it a good business proposition.

I don't think a card pack will happen, especially if you're talking about new pilots/upgrades made just for a card pack. But if there was a card only release I could see it something like this:

- Upgrade cards from previous waves, packaged as set 2 of everything from that wave.

- Each wave has it's own pack.

- Wave packs need to be 1-2 waves behind the current ship release. So only waves 1-4 would be available at this point.

- Cost $6 a pack, and only available through FFG's print on demand store, like they did with the SW rpg cards.

New pilots & upgrades need to keep in the Plastic & Paper sales model.

FAQs are free (for now). I feel things could get a lot worse with the monetization model they got going on right now, which is borderline exploitative without card only expansions.

They could have a monthly magazine that published fixes, FAQs, and new cards and charge 10 bucks an issue for. I'm pretty sure other games have done this

I do think they need to have cards up for sale that are separate from the models because of their habit of publishing fixes to existing models in new model releases. I can imagine the forums if the long awaited X-wing fix is packed in the Rebels new Epic ship (was't that the purpose of the Tantive?)

Things might get a little salty if that happened.

Sith have mercy...

That's.... that's my cat.

SMART too...

Sith have mercy...

That's.... that's my cat.

Is it your armchair too?

Ain't mine... mine is black with a big-ass-wolf beside it.

Peoples arguin on da forume againes about dumb stuff...

What we gonna do bout dat my loyal wolf champ?

YUP... good idea'ers!

Two pilot cards and eight upgrades? Or in physical terms, two cards and eight little cards? That's significantly less than an MTG booster, which is the nearest comparable thing. People aren't going to pay much for that at all. Maybe people on this forum who are majorly into this game might, but I severely doubt that the FFG forum's userbase constitutes anything more than a small minority of FFG's sales base for X-Wing. Similar amount of design work needed as for a blister pack, vastly smaller revenue, possibly unviably low revenue.

You are forgetting the cardboard needed for the pilot bases. which adds SIGNIFICANT costs to the package. Also, WOTC can afford smaller margins on a booster because they go for the volume sale. Partly why they were comfortable with the lower margin on the Falcon. Evidence suggests that the Falcon would be in the $40 SKU.

I don't think you will ever see small blister packs that only provide bases and cards, but I could see a point where FFG might decide to put out a one-off deluxe set for X-wing, which contains new pilots for most ships and a selection of hie cards to use them.

The purpose of the box is to be the second purchase (or early) for a new player, that gives them some cool cards to drool over that they can't currently play. That will likely lead to sales in the long run.

It allows them to insert fixes for a chunk of ships all at once (not necessarily a great idea). Veterans and newbies alike would be ok with it, and not having the ships in the box isn't really a hindrance to either set of players.

For the pack suggested - 10 cards plus the cardboard pilots for the base of the ship and maybe a couple tokens? I'd pay $5 tops.

It doesn't make sense to make a card-only pack when FFG can add in the plastic and charge triple that at MSRP...

While it sounds good in theory, I don't think they are going to sell tons and tons of card packs. Right now their business model includes people that actually play the game, PLUS people that want that little model for their desk, home bookshelf, whatever. While I play the game actively with about 10 people (weekly), I know of at least 2 that buy the boosters now and again for the model (and don't play the game). Of course those people don't buy in to play the game, they just want the cool desk thingy to talk with coworkers about and boost geek cred.

I personally really like the idea of the aces packs. Alternate paintjobs with cards for ships? Hell yeah I'll pay full retail for those! If they sold off aces cardpacks for $10 instead of the whole thing for $30? I'm a whole lot LESS excited for those. I might buy 1 for the cards to be a completionist... but right now I've bought 2 of each of the aces packs. Because.

1. Selling card only expansions is a bad business idea and would be a detriment to FFG.

2. Selling card only expansions is a bad business idea and would be a detriment to FFG.

3. Selling card only expansions is a bad business idea and would be a detriment to FFG.

Not specifically at you Funk just a statement in general.

1.Selling aces packs with redundant ships causes resentment among a portion of the player base.

2.Selling Epic ships with Standard playable "Fixes" of tournament staples causes resentment among a portion of the player base.

3. Selling more and more obscure EU ships drives away a portion of the player base (or at the very least they just wont buy them)

Im not agreeing or disagreeing with the concept, I would of course like to have card only packs, at a reasonable price (50-75% of current blister prices) but I would merely point out that for the game to remain popular in the years to come they will need to print new pilots for existing ships.

As mentioned above, eventually players will get sick of having to buy redundant ships, so maybe they just start proxying rather than buying that 5th,6th,7th x-wing they don't need. In doing so FFG gets no money rather than some money, that to me is bad business.

I t just seems shortsighted of FFG to announce that they will never investigate the possibility of Card only packs.

Whatever anyone's opinion is surely they cannot deny that this is one of the easiest, simplest and speediest ways to expand the game would be through these packs.

Not specifically at you Funk just a statement in general.

1.Selling aces packs with redundant ships causes resentment among a portion of the player base.

2.Selling Epic ships with Standard playable "Fixes" of tournament staples causes resentment among a portion of the player base.

3. Selling more and more obscure EU ships drives away a portion of the player base (or at the very least they just wont buy them)

Im not agreeing or disagreeing with the concept, I would of course like to have card only packs, at a reasonable price (50-75% of current blister prices) but I would merely point out that for the game to remain popular in the years to come they will need to print new pilots for existing ships.

As mentioned above, eventually players will get sick of having to buy redundant ships, so maybe they just start proxying rather than buying that 5th,6th,7th x-wing they don't need. In doing so FFG gets no money rather than some money, that to me is bad business.

I t just seems shortsighted of FFG to announce that they will never investigate the possibility of Card only packs.

Whatever anyone's opinion is surely they cannot deny that this is one of the easiest, simplest and speediest ways to expand the game would be through these packs.

Every time this comes up, I wonder how we got this glut of unemployed business analysts. It seems that there's this assumption that the people running FFG just don't know what they're doing, and with just a few 'simple' steps, everything will be unicorns and puppies again. They've only done very well, and are making money hand over fist.

Fine, the alternative is high quality replicas...er, back ups.

The problem:

The bulk of R&D costs for this game are in the creation of the cardboard. But

The bulk of people's willingness to pay comes from the desire for the plastic.

There is a serious disconnect between what people are willing to pay for (say) the Defender + Predator and what it cost to develop that card. People are willing to spend $1 on the card alone, but will pay $15 to get that card + a nice plastic model.

Most Wanted included $45 of plastic (what it would cost at MSRP to buy the 2 Z-95s and 1 Y-Wing), but only cost $40. It cost $40 because _that's what it took to develop, playtest, etc the cardboard_. The plastic was thrown in to keep people from being upset.

So...

If I'm not willing to pay $15 for a card pack that has the same components as a card pack+ plastic, it simply won't be worth FFG's time to develop the card pack.

Having said all that: if and when they do a 2.0 version of this game, I expect a card pack for each faction, that will bring them up to the new ruleset. They'd probably only break even on it- maybe even lose a bit of money. They will do the thing that causes us to do the least amount of grumbling while still letting them stay in business.

Unfortunately, this won't happen. FFG is too greedy, and would rather force people to buy $80+ expansions to get some must have cards.

Grow up. FFG hasn't forced anybody to do anything, except decide for themselves whether it's worth it to buy each expansion.

Other than hiding a few obscenely powerful cards in expensive expansion packs for models that aren't actually usable in competitive play, sure.

1. Selling card only expansions is a bad business idea and would be a detriment to FFG.

2. Selling card only expansions is a bad business idea and would be a detriment to FFG.

3. Selling card only expansions is a bad business idea and would be a detriment to FFG.

Not specifically at you Funk just a statement in general.

1.Selling aces packs with redundant ships causes resentment among a portion of the player base.

2.Selling Epic ships with Standard playable "Fixes" of tournament staples causes resentment among a portion of the player base.

3. Selling more and more obscure EU ships drives away a portion of the player base (or at the very least they just wont buy them)

Im not agreeing or disagreeing with the concept, I would of course like to have card only packs, at a reasonable price (50-75% of current blister prices) but I would merely point out that for the game to remain popular in the years to come they will need to print new pilots for existing ships.

As mentioned above, eventually players will get sick of having to buy redundant ships, so maybe they just start proxying rather than buying that 5th,6th,7th x-wing they don't need. In doing so FFG gets no money rather than some money, that to me is bad business.

I t just seems shortsighted of FFG to announce that they will never investigate the possibility of Card only packs.

Whatever anyone's opinion is surely they cannot deny that this is one of the easiest, simplest and speediest ways to expand the game would be through these packs.

As someone who is trying really, really hard not to get 2 more Imperial Aces packs (for a total of 4, grand total of 12 Interceptors), I think they are more interested in my portion of the user base. Along with the highly competitive players who will buy as much of the new ships to make the top squads.

As much as I prefer FFG to other game companies, I still know they are my dealer. And miniatures, especially cheaper repaints, helps them make more money than any card packs. If just that they can justify a higher price.

Unfortunately, this won't happen. FFG is too greedy, and would rather force people to buy $80+ expansions to get some must have cards.

Grow up. FFG hasn't forced anybody to do anything, except decide for themselves whether it's worth it to buy each expansion.

Other than hiding a few obscenely powerful cards in expensive expansion packs for models that aren't actually usable in competitive play, sure.

Obscene is the wrong word...3po is annoying but far from obscene...same with they x1 it's good...but so are a plethora of other cards.

How about we look at what they casual scene can do? You are aware only a tiny tiny portion of they people who hug models actually play competitively right? They game isn't beholden to they tourney circuit...sometimes I think this needs to be forcibly beat into certain posters skills around here...you can proxy in casual games, you know the format most games are played in?

I am sorry you have a problem with they epic packaging. I have been over this here a great many times. They x1 being packages with they raider was brilliant. Pushes people toward at least trying epic plus th eery make some extra dough in they process. They have packed enough titles and ATC s IM there for some people to sell off to people such as you who don't want to purchase they raider. I guess I can thank those who feel as you do for subsidizing my raider for me!! :-)

God I hate posting on my phone...how many times can it change the to they?

People are willing to spend $1 on the card alone, but will pay $15 to get that card + a nice plastic model.

I won't though if that plastic model isn't one I'm planning on using.

I don't play Rebels, so I'd never pay $30 for Rebel Aces or the YT-2400. But I'd pay a dollar for Proton Rockets.

So for FFG, it becomes a question of, do they make more money on people buying ships they don't want to get the cards they need, then they lose on people not being able to buy just the cards they want and refusing to buy the ships they don't want just to get them.

I assume FFGs has crunched the numbers and come to the conclusion that the former is the case.

Which just tells me that the number of people who don't care about their money outweighs the number of us that do to the point that it's worth it to FFGs to screw us.