Think about it, at least for the US Nationals there will be up to 24 regional champions. That means you will probably be facing a regional champion the first 2 rounds minimum, and if you survive those rounds you probably will be playing against a continuous gauntlet of regional champions until the end of swiss.

Is this really a reward? You're basically starting your playoffs at round 2.

Should big events like Nationals/Worlds maybe be set up World Soccer style (Groups, each regional champ in a different group, round robin, cut to top elimination) so all the champs aren't knocking each other out of contention?

Edit: I simulated an 7 round swiss with 200 people and 24 BYE's (US Nationals) and if it's top heavy (each off-record match up, higher record wins), There will be 2 8-0, 12 7-1, and 34 6-2. If the cut is top 16, this means only 2 of the 34 6-2's move on. Looking at that, if pairings are correct, there's a good chance that 12 of the regional champions will start round 3 with 1 loss, and if they end up playing each other, 6 champs will probably be knocked out by round 4!

I'd like to hear your thoughts!

It is effectively a free win at the next level up tourney isn't it?

In that case yes, it is a reward.

Think about it, at least for the US Nationals there will be up to 24 regional champions. That means you will probably be facing a regional champion the first 2 rounds minimum, and if you survive those rounds you probably will be playing against a continuous gauntlet of regional champions until the end of swiss.

Is this really a reward? You're basically starting your playoffs at round 2.

Should big events like Nationals/Worlds maybe be set up World Soccer style (Groups, each regional champ in a different group, round robin, cut to top elimination) so all the champs aren't knocking each other out of contention?

I'd like to hear your thoughts!

I'm no expert (even remotely) on competitive anything.

But I can't see why if the event is supposed to be the premier event featuring the best of the best, why should anyone get any advantage for anything.

The champion should have played in every round.

Just my uniformed and ignorant opinion.

It is effectively a free win at the next level up tourney isn't it?

In that case yes, it is a reward.

Yes, but all the other champs get it too, and if pairings are based on standings, all champs face each other the second round (with some exceptions of those that get a perfect MoV first round). So you start the second round against another champ, and so on. See what I'm getting at?

The "Super Byes" will pair you up with either another super bye player or a player who won their first game with an MoV of 200-0. Although this will pair you with another "good" player, you still get a win and 200 MoV pts without having to completely dominate an opponent.

I have always thought that if you were going to lose just one game during a tournament, it would be better to lose your first one to put you in the lower half of the standings to make the next few opponents possibly easier. But I think many people could find flaws in this logic, especially if you happen to lose a second game.

The "Super Byes" will pair you up with either another super bye player or a player who won their first game with an MoV of 200-0. Although this will pair you with another "good" player, you still get a win and 200 MoV pts without having to completely dominate an opponent.

I have always thought that if you were going to lose just one game during a tournament, it would be better to lose your first one to put you in the lower half of the standings to make the next few opponents possibly easier. But I think many people could find flaws in this logic, especially if you happen to lose a second game.

That's exactly how it turned out for me at Regionals. I got tabled my first game, started dead last the second round, and made 6th after cut. I don't know how successful I would have been if it had been the opposite the first round lol

So for regionals me and 2 friends had byes while the other didn't. We had to play higher tier builds. Our buddy without the bye got to play goodies builds that he beat that really upped his mov. Honestly I wouldn't use my bye next time just so I could have a chance of getting an easy match up.

It would be better if it were a last round bye. Like, play the first round or two... do well, and once you are in the finals THEN take your bye and declare victory!

It would be better if it were a last round bye. Like, play the first round or two... do well, and once you are in the finals THEN take your bye and declare victory!

Haha or if you can choose to use it any rounds as soon as you see your opponents list. "What?! Brobots?! Ok BYE you lose".

In the Regionals I played in, I didn't have a bye. By the time the first game was about to start, I was pretty glad. I wasn't waiting around anymore and I could finally just sink my teeth into a game. If I had to wait a whole other game while knowing I was facing someone with a 200-0 victory or a bye, I think it would have been really aggravating.

No. You get to play one less game of X-wing. F that.

No. You get to play one less game of X-wing. F that.

Sure, but if you're planning to and able to go the distance you're still probably playing another 4 at least of Swiss(how many swiss rounds is nationals this year?) and 1 or more in the cut. There's a mental "I haven't been at this for quite as long" aspect to getting that bye too.

I get what you mean, but I do think you'll end up playing those same players in the last few rounds of Swiss, so if you were going to to lose to them at some point, it could still happen. Also, you might face those players in the Top cut if you don't knock them out of Swiss.

However, with ths large number of players attending Nationals, MoV will be a large determining factor in the top cut. It might just push your MoV above someone else, unless you build a squad that can 100-0 players consistently.

No. You get to play one less game of X-wing. F that.

Sure, but if you're planning to and able to go the distance you're still probably playing another 4 at least of Swiss(how many swiss rounds is nationals this year?) and 1 or more in the cut. There's a mental "I haven't been at this for quite as long" aspect to getting that bye too.

No. You get to play one less game of X-wing. F that.

Sure, but if you're planning to and able to go the distance you're still probably playing another 4 at least of Swiss(how many swiss rounds is nationals this year?) and 1 or more in the cut. There's a mental "I haven't been at this for quite as long" aspect to getting that bye too.

I'd really rather lose than play less games.

That's all well and good, and I usually feel the same way, but look at it like this; Florida regionals this year were in St. Petersburg, 2.5ish hours away from me. Checkin cutoff was at 8:45, which means I had to be on the road by 6AM. Many people, even those without hotels, came further. First 75 minute round started at ~10AM, Swiss ended around 7PM, first round of Top 8 was 8PM. So by then I'd been up for 14+ hours, and had been on my feet almost non-stop(there wasn't really anywhere to sit in the venue) for 10+ of them. The guys who ended up at the final table were there past 1AM.

It's mentally and physically exhausting; getting to sit and relax the first hour and a half of the tournament or so may not seem like much, but it's something. It's one thing to not want a bye in a small store tournament where it basically means you're losing out on as much as a third of your X-wing for the day. At a big event like a Regionals or higher? Also note I didn't say anything about winning or losing, other than whether you expect to really get far enough for it to matter.

So if you had to play the first round are you deliberately planning to not score full MoV if given the opportunity?

I did not use my bye at my first regionals, I was worried about nerves getting the better of me and where my list stood in the meta. Also this was my local regional, the vast majority of my friends were going to be there. The only game I lost was to my first round opponent who wound up taking second. I went 4-1-1 to finish 13th. So maybe saving the bye cost me a top8? Playing less x wing is a bummer though.

I just think it could be fun to implement a more group tournament style.

If I had it my way I would love to run a large scale tournament this way:

32 Regional Champions

8 Groups

28 players each group (224 players total)

4 first round byes per group

5 rounds swiss. Ignoring ties, should end with 1 player with a perfect record in each group.

Cut to top 16 or 32 (top 2 or 4 each group) for a single elimination play off!

I'm not complaining about the current format, just fantasizing if I could run my own tourney this big, how I'd do it

Should big events like Nationals/Worlds maybe be set up World Soccer style (Groups, each regional champ in a different group, round robin, cut to top elimination) so all the champs aren't knocking each other out of contention?

Yes, although I do think the first-round bye is a reward, as long as it actually is 200 MOV.

What I'd like to see for FFG's major championships is qualifying play in round-robin groups, with the top two players from each group advancing to a double-elimination tournament on the following day. There are some logistical hurdles, but they're no worse than the current tournament structure, and there are a lot of advantages in terms of fairness and a reliable assessment of player skill.

I'd much prefer if the bye was in round 3 or the like, rather than the first. This way you play a couple games, then get to go grab lunch or something and relax your brain before getting back into the gauntlet for the last few games in battling for the top cut, and then the games thereafter.

That said, I get it too - you'll have drops after every round first game, so it cuts down on number of players at tables. Still, as it is it's a double-edged sword of 'hurry up and wait'...

I was lucky enough to have a first round bye at a regional this year. I'll say three things about it:

1. It's a great kick start to your MoV, depending on the cut off for your particular scenario, it can be crucial.

2. I'd like to see something in the tournament software that avoids matching byes against byes in round 2. That seemed silly to me to have a free win and then have to play a potentially harder opponent straight up. After r3 all bets are off and you fight your way to the top.

3. I found the wait for r2 to be horrible. I liken it to when i used to play rugby, the best way to settle your nerves was to get out there and get your hands on the ball or smash someone in a tackle. Starting on the bench and watching it only made me more anxious and i burnt alot of energy pacing up and down the room.

You are also forgetting a tournament winning superbye gets you a ticket to regionals/nationals/worlds which as of now is completely sold out.

As these games get more popular and FFG is spread further thin with new tabletop miniature and LCG games (they had 2 new ones within the last 12 months) that vie the attention of competitive table top game players these superbyes are soon going to be the only way into worlds/nationals unless you are really lucky or got a scalper bot set up to automate your ticket order.

I would be surprised if more than 2 or 3 Regional winners actually end up playing at Gencon/Nationals since you had to plan to be there (get a ticket), and then win a Regionals (not the other way round).

I think I worked out that byes excepted Nationals will produce a top 16 with 7 rounds. Those top 16 will be everyone 7-0 and everyone 6-1. Two losses and you are done I think.

That being said, the concept of playing in four person 3 round pods makes a lot of sense. Top 2 in the pod move into a winners bracket, bottom 2 move into a losers bracket created new 4 person pods and 3 more rounds. Top 2 in each winners bracket pod advance, and Top 1 in losers bracket advance to an elimination or something. Numbers are a bit tricky to work out, but the theory is there. Always a reason to keep playing and you tend to play players of equal(ish) skill.

Everyone that wins a Regional has a spot in the Worlds event reserved for them already. No planning needed.

I would be surprised if more than 2 or 3 Regional winners actually end up playing at Gencon/Nationals since you had to plan to be there (get a ticket), and then win a Regionals (not the other way round).

I think I worked out that byes excepted Nationals will produce a top 16 with 7 rounds. Those top 16 will be everyone 7-0 and everyone 6-1. Two losses and you are done I think.

That being said, the concept of playing in four person 3 round pods makes a lot of sense. Top 2 in the pod move into a winners bracket, bottom 2 move into a losers bracket created new 4 person pods and 3 more rounds. Top 2 in each winners bracket pod advance, and Top 1 in losers bracket advance to an elimination or something. Numbers are a bit tricky to work out, but the theory is there. Always a reason to keep playing and you tend to play players of equal(ish) skill.

Most people that win Regional do have a travel budget and many Regional players do plan in case they got a ticket to Nationals.

As for National winners they have their whole ticket paid for them to attend worlds.