PWT; The simplest fix is: Only gain +1 Attack die at range 1, when the target is in your primary arc.

This fixes the PWT issue. It's a minor nerf, but huge in the end game, when the Large ship can be outmaneuvered.

I like this. Otherwise they should restrict pwt's to R1-2 just like all the other ones (except that pesky new one).

PWT; The simplest fix is: Only gain +1 Attack die at range 1, when the target is in your primary arc.

This fixes the PWT issue. It's a minor nerf, but huge in the end game, when the Large ship can be outmaneuvered.

I like this. Otherwise they should restrict pwt's to R1-2 just like all the other ones (except that pesky new one).

Thanks, We have used it as a house rule in our store and it's awesome. It really makes the end game something different and challenging for PWTS.

Conner Net.

/thread

PWT; The simplest fix is: Only gain +1 Attack die at range 1, when the target is in your primary arc.

This fixes the PWT issue. It's a minor nerf, but huge in the end game, when the Large ship can be outmaneuvered.

I like this. Otherwise they should restrict pwt's to R1-2 just like all the other ones (except that pesky new one).

The issue with do this, it that it really hurt the large ships. Do you realize how many players stay at range 3 and snipe it out with large ships (Raises Hand). Their size and dials and not being able to shoot at range 3 would pretty much doom them.

PWT; The simplest fix is: Only gain +1 Attack die at range 1, when the target is in your primary arc.

This fixes the PWT issue. It's a minor nerf, but huge in the end game, when the Large ship can be outmaneuvered.

I like this. Otherwise they should restrict pwt's to R1-2 just like all the other ones (except that pesky new one).

Yeah, better go ahead and errata the TLT to only working at range 2 just to match right?

The problem with both of the above situations is that they simply do not make sense thematically, and they are not internally consistant with the rest of the rules. All secondary weapons have range restrictions printed on the cards, all of the primary weapons do not. All primary weapons get and give range bonuses at all times, all secondary weapons do not.

The only way your proposed "fixes" make any sense at all is to remove the turret abilit and just give them a turret upgrade slot, along with about a 7 point cost reduction. But that ship has long ago sailed, it's not gonna happen.

And of course, above and beyond all this complaining is one single question that must be answered: Why. Why are you convinced that the YT-1300, YT-2400, and the Decimator are overpowered?

Because being able to outmaneuver someone is fun.

Not being able to outmaneuver rebel pancakes and Imperial Pizza slices isn't super neato. PWTs (especially the ones with EU) are playing a single player game where they're either playing keep-away or whack-a-mole.

Maybe the problem is fun. Fun just isn't thematic.

Well that's the issue then isn't it. Some people don't find it FUN. But that's not the same as being overpowered and should never be a reason to just hand out nerfs or changes. Everyone has different views of what is fun. While you may find PWTs to be boring some people really enjoy them. So changing something for the sake of what some see as fun or unfun hurts the player base. I have no problems playing against PWTs. I find it challenging and fun. They are a part of the game. I also feel they are well balanced for their points. Saying they are in half the winning lists is like sayin "oh man arc ships are in half the lists lets nerf arcs" or "oh man low cost filler ships are in a good percent of winning lists, better nerf filler ships"

There are different PWTs and counting them the same is silly in my eyes. They play differently. Sure they can't be out maneuvered to lose their shot but they wither under the weight of fire and are susceptible to being outmaneuver re so they can't dodge around with EU like they want.

There are ways to beat PWTs. Now the phantom did nutty things. That deserved a nerf and it got quite an elegant one so it is still very good but not to the point where you could just drop 13 points for fun and win a tournament. The thing about PWTs is they are more forgiving of mistakes. That means a lot of people prefer them for long tournaments where you will likely suffer mental fatigue. But I would still argue that this doesn't make them inherently better. It all depends on what your threshold for concentration and stamina for a game is. Personally I do better without PWTs in long tournaments just like I do better with super late game control decks over Aggro or midrange in magic. I thrive on the intense decision trees and the knowledge that one little mistake could Avalanche me into a loss of I'm not careful. But some people prefer decks where they just go all face and either win or lose.

The point is I don't see any balance issues with PWTs. Most of the arguments boil down to them just not being fun for some to play against. I find them fun to play against. Others find them fun to play with/against. So it doesn't make sense to nerf them just because some people don't like playing them.

¶

The pilcrow is love, the pilcrow is life.

The most valid argument I've seen in defense of the PWT is how they are costed. However, since the MOV rule change, even this has become an unfair advantage. They need to stop dancing around the issue of PWTs and address them directly.

PWT; The simplest fix is: Only gain +1 Attack die at range 1, when the target is in your primary arc.

This fixes the PWT issue. It's a minor nerf, but huge in the end game, when the Large ship can be outmaneuvered.

I like this. Otherwise they should restrict pwt's to R1-2 just like all the other ones (except that pesky new one).

Yeah, better go ahead and errata the TLT to only working at range 2 just to match right?

The problem with both of the above situations is that they simply do not make sense thematically, and they are not internally consistant with the rest of the rules. All secondary weapons have range restrictions printed on the cards, all of the primary weapons do not. All primary weapons get and give range bonuses at all times, all secondary weapons do not.

The only way your proposed "fixes" make any sense at all is to remove the turret abilit and just give them a turret upgrade slot, along with about a 7 point cost reduction. But that ship has long ago sailed, it's not gonna happen.

And of course, above and beyond all this complaining is one single question that must be answered: Why. Why are you convinced that the YT-1300, YT-2400, and the Decimator are overpowered?

Not saying completely overpowered, but if you don't think they have a major advantage, then your not being honest with yourself, plus boring to play against. I went 4-2 with my Biggs Keywest list at the regional and faced 6 turrets, 2 were complete pancakes. Boring!!!! by the 6 game I just wanted to go home. I was glad I missed the cut.

Like i said before, "I went there to face new players and challenges, what I got was a day of stale games" I don't blame good players for seeing that they are slightly overpowered and using them to the advantage because that's what good players do' But man it was the most boring regional I had been too. I paid to stay overnight, drive there and play. What I got was pure monotony basically the same lists over and over.

I want this game to be fun, but right now the Pancakes show up everywhere, because they are overpowered, since they don't have to fly as well because they can always shoot. (Easy mode) There is no penalty for them not flying well. Before their cost was a major issue, but that was because when they released, their weren't a lot of options, since Z's and other cheap ships didn't exist as well as other upgrades to help them have their buddy ship become phat also. At their release point they were costed well, but now with all the crew options (Basically EPT's for any ship and all the possible combinations). Other ships which can only have one ept lag behind, and the generics are nearly useless accept for the really cheap ones. Now larges ships with PWT are way undercosted.

I want FFG to fix them so this boring game play doesn't happen again. I even cancelled going to another regional, because I would have had to drive 5 hours and will probably face them again. What fun indeed! I must fly as a formation and make choices to survive, while the PWT skims the outside of the map and plays ring around the rosie.