So, are you able to play Ranger of Cardolan just by paying 4 resources, even if you don't control a Dunedain hero?

And if so, will he still leave play at the end of the round? Or is this only triggered when the response is activated?

Fair enough

he is like courage awakening, which nobody plays

I do admit I've been a little overly critical of this new pack. I think more than anything its because the arguably best four cards in the pack were spoiled months ago. Still underwhelmed by the majority of the player cards in this pack.

You can play him for four with or without a dunedain hero and he will not leave play at the end of the round. You must control a Dunedain hero to use his response however.

I think there is a typo on cardgamedb though as it has "Play only if you control a Dúnedain hero" but if you look at the actual card image this is not the case.

Yes, that was what made me wonder.

A 2-2-2-3 neutral ally seems nice enough. Even though four cost is a little high, the fact it is not unique makes it very playable to me.

4 cost is a little high for 2/2/2/3 neutral ally? Lets see...

Allies with the same exact amount of stats:

Gimli (cost 4, unique, leadership)

Haldir of Lorien (cost 4, unique, lore)

Ranger of North (no cost, is shuffled into the encouner deck by event)

Wandering Ent (cost 2, lore, enters play exhausted)

To top it off, average stat distribution among 4 costed allies (excluding the one in question) is:

1.3/2.1/1.6/3.0

I think, it's pretty fair to say that cost 4 for a neutral 2/2/2/3 ally is an exact spot-on cost.

I didn't mean four cost is too high for Ranger of Cardolan.

I think in general four cost is pretty high for any card, so I would rather not play too many high-cost cards. But for an high-cost card I think it is pretty good.

Well, it appeared to be implying it, but if it wasn't - too bad, it's already done. And I see no point in discussing it further.

I don't think some random internet artist is browsing those unpopular LotR LCG forums. Or would take some random person's opinion close to heart - they're pretty used to it.

Seems you know a lot about random internet artists. I had already expected you might have made the picture since you were defending it so fiercely. No wonder you keep browsing these forums despite being so unpopular in your eyes, mr Random.

What was this I don't even...

Edit: Oh, I get it. He thinks I've drawn that art. Oh well, might as well take that as a compliment. I wish I could draw at least half as good

No, I just kept kidding you. But you can keep it as a compliment.

[edit] Also, you do not address the person you're having a conversation with "he". Judging from your vocabulary, you must already know that, so I'm guessing you're just trying hard to preserve your crusty ways.

Alright guys, calm down. Let's get back to the cards.

I really like the new Merry, combined with the pony. A lot of action advantage with Fast Hitch. Can't wait to buy this AP, I think the cards are, as a whole, better then the Lost Realm expansion.

You can play him for four with or without a dunedain hero and he will not leave play at the end of the round. You must control a Dunedain hero to use his response however.

I think there is a typo on cardgamedb though as it has "Play only if you control a Dúnedain hero" but if you look at the actual card image this is not the case.

I guess that is dependent on whether the image is correct or if the text on the site is correct. The image may be old and not have updated text since they get their images straight from FFG and not card scans of the actual released cards.

a non-restricted tactics attachment called 'Raven-Winged Helm'. It is a 2 cost item and armor that you can attach to a sentinel hero (limit 1 per hero). It has a response effect that reads "exhaust Raven-Winged Helm to cancel 1 point of damage just dealt to attached character".

I love it. It really does make the Erkenbrand + The Day's Rising combo far more effective. Now, if only he was noble so he could wear Heir of Mardil and ready from The Day's Rising's effect. Also, the fact that it isn't restricted makes it a welcome addition to practically any sentinel defender. I've often debated between using Citadel Plate and Spear of the Citadel on Beregond to go with his Gondorian Shield, but this will let me use the Spear without needing much, if any, healing to keep Beregond alive while still letting him be the one to take all the hits.

It's also another piece that can be added to my Uber Theoden concept where you load him up with everything possible to allow him to be great at everything:

- Steward of Gondor

- Heir of Mardil

- Captain of Gondor

- Gondorian Shield

- The Day's Rising

- Herugrim

- All the readying you can find

- and now Raven-Winged Helm

With Steward of Gondor and Heir of Mardil, you would also be able to effectively throw on Blood of Numenor, Gondorian Fire, and Visionary Leadership to make him super overkill. Any way you can add willpower will also boost his attack thanks to Herugrim, so Celebrian's Stone would also work well. For the sake of having the resources you need to play many of these cards, I would also throw Song of Kings on him. Additional options: Horn of Gondor and Rohan Warhorse, but then you'd need to replace the shield or Herugrim to free up the restricted slot; Dunedain attachments.

That's a LOT of setup, but with a well-designed deck (or splitting it into 2 decks to actually take more advantage of the sentinel keyword), it can find those pieces rather quickly nowadays, and very few of the pieces are "necessary"; they're just there to build him up more (e.g. SoG can trigger Heir of Mardil instead of The Day's Rising if need be). Definitely need the readying though.

Can you use Raven-Winged Helm with Erkenbrand's ability? If I recall, "Deal 1 damage to..." means they need to actually take the damage.

I think that was more related to the controversy with The Day's Rising, in that you can't gain the resource if you used his ability since he took damage. I don't see any reason for just Erkenbrand + Helm wouldn't work to cancel the shadow effect.

In another note, could someone post an image of the helm or the quote if any? I don't recall any reference to raven-winged helms in LOTR (as opposed to ASOIAF), only that the Fountain Guard in Minas Tirith wore helms with Gull-wings. Anybody here know the reference?

Can you use Raven-Winged Helm with Erkenbrand's ability? If I recall, "Deal 1 damage to..." means they need to actually take the damage.

You're right. There have been other discussions about this idea with Treebeard too. If Erkenbrand doesn't actually take the damage (he wouldn't if it's cancelled), then he isn't fulfilling the cost of triggering the rest of the response. Just slipped my mind.

That's a bummer. So, mechanically it seems that the helm was specifically made for Beregond, but thematically it doesn't make sense. Here's a description of the attire of the Tower Guard of Minas Tirith (TGW):

"At the end of the Third Age, they were the only soldiers of Gondor entitled to wear the Livery of Elendil himself - a white tree in blossom, surmounted by a silver crown and stars, all embroidered on a field of black. They also bore heirlooms of Gondor's ancient wealth, tall helmets wrought out of mithril, with close-fitting cheek-guards and bearing the carved wings of sea-birds."

Then why does it have raven wings? I know this is thematic nitpicking, but it seems like a very dumb thing to do from the designers. It's like having an Elven Shield card that worked best with a Rohan hero. Doesn't make sense.

I summon the designers themselves to explain this aberration!

It appears to come from this passage, where Pippin investigates one of the armories of Minas Tirith and dons some items. So the raven-winged helm is Pippin's funnily enough, but it does show that such helms could be found in Gondor.

"It was as he said; and Pippin soon found himself arrayed in strange garments, all of black and silver. He had a small hauberk, its rings forged of steel, maybe, yet black as jet; and a high-crowned helm with small raven-wings on either side, set with a silver star in the centre of the circlet."

So it's actually Pippin's helm. That works for me. I still want a white-wing helm though at some point.

I think that was more related to the controversy with The Day's Rising, in that you can't gain the resource if you used his ability since he took damage. I don't see any reason for just Erkenbrand + Helm wouldn't work to cancel the shadow effect.

In another note, could someone post an image of the helm or the quote if any? I don't recall any reference to raven-winged helms in LOTR (as opposed to ASOIAF), only that the Fountain Guard in Minas Tirith wore helms with Gull-wings. Anybody here know the reference?

It's about the 6th post down, the image is linked.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1394258/wastes-eriador-spoilers-are-cardgamedb

Can you use Raven-Winged Helm with Erkenbrand's ability? If I recall, "Deal 1 damage to..." means they need to actually take the damage.

You're right. There have been other discussions about this idea with Treebeard too. If Erkenbrand doesn't actually take the damage (he wouldn't if it's cancelled), then he isn't fulfilling the cost of triggering the rest of the response. Just slipped my mind.

Is this for real? Would be the dumbest thing ever!

Just to elaborate how it happens in my head:

A shadow effect is triggered.

Erkenbrand triggers his ability, paying his health and canceling the effect at the same time, because it's the same printed effect.

Then, Winged Helm is exhausted to cancel 1 point of damage issued to Erkenbrand.

Right, but I'm pretty sure cancelling the damage would prevent the cost from actually being paid. It's kind of a weird ruling, but there is precedence. There are a few rules threads about Treebeard's ability with song of mocking where it's determined that Treebeard would not get the bonus because you didn't actually deal damage to him.

Yes, but Song of Mocking does not cancel the damage. It's preventing it from being placed in the first place. It has been established that you must deal the damage before cancelling it.

You know, in all of those threads I haven't seen an official response that really addresses the issue. I'll send a question to Caleb to put this thing to rest.

The helm works fine with Erkenbrand. *Dealing* the damage is the cost of Erkenbrand's ability, the fact that a response is then triggered to cancel the damage that was dealt does not mean that the original cost of *dealing* was not paid. What happens to the damage after it is dealt is irrelevant.

Disagree. Damage cancelled is damage not dealt. Thus the price for the ability is never paid and thus the ability is not resolved.

The order is not: deal damage, cancel shadow, cancel damage

The order is: deal damage, cancel damage, do not cancel shadow