I love that it's a good looking B-wing killer, just wish the Decimator had 2 torp slots now instead of a bomb slot I never use.

FIX TORPEDOES PLEASE.

They really do need a "Fix".

Torpedoes suck that's a fact.

Munitions in general do, outside of specific builds (Like the Bandits+Cracken squad that took 2nd in the recent Regionals). The exceptions tend to be Flechette Torpedos, Proton Rockets, Ion Pulse Missiles.

Notice that of these weapons, two keep their attack token to modify the attack when firing, and the other one doesn't need to hit at all.

Simply put: I'm quietly hoping this wave of munitions is intended to help get the bomb carriers back in the game - prior to a FAQ-style fix where they change Attack(Target Lock) and Attack(Focus) headers to automatically include modification by the token they require.

So Attack(Focus) gives you a focused attack (spending the token or otherwise), Attack(Target Lock) means the dice are getting rerolled, and Homing Missiles... well, they get a rerolled shot without losing the lock to start with. Handy for letting you follow up with another attack next round.

Buffs Blaster Turrets in the new era of Twin Laser Turrets, too.

So true

My store uses:

imo, they're still just incredibly underwhelming

if they were unlimited I could see them hitting the table, maybe even protons to a lesser extent

but firing unmodified without some janky support is just begging for the dice to screw you out of 3 points. FFG was on a roll with ordinance that didn't spend the target-lock (ion pulse and prockets, which didn't even need TL!) but sadly it seems torps did not get the memo

you could fly an incredibly janky Deadeye Nera w/Recon, FCS, Plasma and munis for 38 points. Basically, a sh*tty miniature outrider. At that point, though, you might as well go up to Protons for 1 point more, ditch the 4 points of recon, and get similar dice modds for a 3 point discount.

I know you don't like them, but can I suggest you try them? I also wish that there was more of a massive fix for ordnance. I love it. We have been on the same page of a lot of that discussion. I say that this torpedo is actually decent. Not great. Not amazing, but worth it.

Even if you don't have the ability to modify the dice...you do the extra shield damage! OK....so the averages hits when rolling 4 dice unmodified? Stack that against those ships with more than 1 Shield. What I see is that you don't NEED the dice modifier if you are doing that extra shield damage. I admit that that's only for ships with shields....but still! You don't have to modify the damage dice to be effective. That's the beauty of this torpedo.

What is "janky support"? I mean...any ability to pass on modifier? Or just an whole ton of it to make a list work? Plasma Torpedoes don't need a lot of synergy to make them work. All you need is one way to pass something along. PTL, or Garven Dreis, or Kyle Katarn, or Cracken, or Squad Leader, or Dutch.

What about Wedge with one of these and no modifier? There is always the chance of crapping out on blanks, but even with average dice and one less agility, he will do damage.

...where ordnance is concerned we should be careful what we wish for. Much as PWTs don't really fit in my personal idealised version of the game in their current form, I think it'd be very easy for X-Wing to become a game of Who Gets Their Ordnance Away First if some of the suggested "fixes" on this forum were implemented.

For some reason I can only "like" this post once. FFG FIX PLS.

It's critically important to remember that tweaking this game is an essentially conservative enterprise. Lots of people, on lots of topics, seem to think their preferred (usually untested) fix is easy and should be implemented as soon as possible, if not sooner. But that ignores the fact that if the designers of X-wing are good at their jobs, they'll tweak slowly in small amounts--because the risk of making larger, faster changes (and particularly with making those changes to ordnance ) is that we'll all end up playing rocket tag.

I love that it's a good looking B-wing killer, just wish the Decimator had 2 torp slots now instead of a bomb slot I never use.

no love for new ion bomb w/extra munis? lack of a k-turn never seemed so much like not a lack at all

I love that it's a good looking B-wing killer, just wish the Decimator had 2 torp slots now instead of a bomb slot I never use.

no love for new ion bomb w/extra munis? lack of a k-turn never seemed so much like not a lack at all

I'm actually a fan of this thing as a Corran Horn second shot in the first round or two of combat. He shoots first with just a naked shot, gains a TL from FCS and holds his focus for defense. In the end phase, he launches this with the free TL and his focus if he still has it, and gets to go against hopefully unmodified defense dice, depending on the rest of your list's attacks.

Weapons Guidance System:

Modification: 0 Pt

When you declare an attack with a [missile] or [Torpedo] upgrade that requires a target lock to be spent. Once per combat phase, you may re-roll up to 2 your dice used in the attack (As if you had a target lock). This way the new pilot Redline is not stepped on. You may not do this if you already have a target lock token.

Similar to this here's an idea that just came to me, because of the issue raised about some elite pilots getting stepped on or some significantly improved by a universal buff:

---

Simulation Ordnance Systems – 1pt

Modification

When performing a secondary weapon attack do not spend your target lock or a focus token if instructed to do so. You cannot equip this upgrade if your Pilot Skill is 5 or greater.

---

Thematically its like the training wheels the generics use in their training missions. Elite pilots wouldn't be caught using such things. In this way our named pilots with abilities affecting secondaries (Horton, Rhymer, Redline, Nera, etc.) aren't instantly way better (leaving generics behind again) or stepped on by a universal ordnance buff. But at the same time makes generic ordnance carriers a little more viable.

Unaffected ordnance are homing/ion pulse missiles and proton rockets -- since it makes all secondaries act like those unaffected, in addition to their own benefits, I think that justifies the 1 point cost. At 0 points homing/ion pulse/prockets wouldn't see use unless they were specific to your build and/or you needed the modification slot for something else.

Horton Hears a Boom

Horton Salm w/ Plasma Torp, EM

Jan Ors w/ Squad Leader, Twin Laser Turret, and Nien Nunb

3 x Z-95's

or 2 Rookie Pilots

Jan can give her free action and boost Horton's attack. Or....she can do the same for any of the Z-95's. Even if you kill off Horton, you start giving Z-95's 3 dice with TL and Focus and you will see damage. Kill one Z? Oh, boost the next. Want to take out Jan first? Well, eat a lot of shots while doing it.

I may borrow this list some time (I have run Horton+Protons and Jan before 5 Dice Torps rerolling blanks and the pseudo focus are really fun)

Horton Hears a Boom

Horton Salm w/ Plasma Torp, EM

Jan Ors w/ Squad Leader, Twin Laser Turret, and Nien Nunb

3 x Z-95's

or 2 Rookie Pilots

Jan can give her free action and boost Horton's attack. Or....she can do the same for any of the Z-95's. Even if you kill off Horton, you start giving Z-95's 3 dice with TL and Focus and you will see damage. Kill one Z? Oh, boost the next. Want to take out Jan first? Well, eat a lot of shots while doing it.

I may borrow this list some time (I have run Horton+Protons and Jan before 5 Dice Torps rerolling blanks and the pseudo focus are really fun)

Problem is Jan cant Squad Leader Horton

I believe if you just got Redline's ability on a mod or ept, you'd fix ordinance overnight

preferably a mod (stacking with predator and such is pointless, and it'll rule out stacking with EU or thrusters or ACD or other powerful modifications). Better yet, give it to jendon with a weapon's engineer and watch the hilarity unfold.

or if ords were all unlimited uses (concerned about ion pulse, though), but extra munis threw that possibility out the window

It looks like the stuff in the K-wing is meant to bring Horton Salm out of retirement.

Problem is Jan cant Squad Leader Horton

Noooooooooooooooooo.............!!!!

Dang it.

Problem is Jan cant Squad Leader Horton

Noooooooooooooooooo.............!!!!

Dang it.

...that's why Jan orders Dutch around, so Salm takes the hint and follows suit.

Problem is Jan cant Squad Leader Horton

Noooooooooooooooooo.............!!!!

Dang it.

...that's why Jan orders Dutch around, so Salm takes the hint and follows suit.

it's not a chain of command as much as a loop-de-loop

Horton w/ Plasma Torp and EM

Jan Ors w/ only Nien Nunb

Airen Cracken w/ VI

2 x Z-95's

It makes Jan Ors not worth didly in combat, but wether she did much to begin with was up for debate.

Horton w/ Plasma Torp and EM

Jan Ors w/ only Nien Nunb

Airen Cracken w/ VI

2 x Z-95's

It makes Jan Ors not worth didly in combat, but wether she did much to begin with was up for debate.

Dropping a Z-95 could let you put turrets on both Jan and Horton giving them a little more oomph

That is true, but is that oomph better than having another Z, especially if Jan can boost that Z-95 to 3 red dice? I say Horton after he shoots his ordnance is free to die or have his main gun boosted.

Concerning ordnance there's a fine line between useless and over powered. A misstep can make power creep a giant step. Have some faith that FFG knows what they're doing. Even if they come out with a fix or a patch people will still complain. On the whole I'd rather have ordnance that was marginally useful rather than overwhelming. Look at 40K. Their power struggle is a lot faster than a creep.

This seems like as good a place as any to add this to the current/ongoing ordnance discussion:

ANq Tracking Computer - modification - cost = 0

"When an equipped secondary weapon instructs you to spend a Target Lock token to perform the attack you may also re roll any number of dice once during that attack sequence".

I may have the wording off a smidge but that is a substantial help isn't it? It's obviously not a new idea either but I would think that would be a step in the right direction.

Doesnt work with warthogs (not a primary attack) and takes away corrans engine upgrade... check. Whats yhe next disqualifcation?

4 die attack for 3 points. 5 if a shield survives the shot. Seems the torpedo fix is to just print cheaper torpedoes.

So Attack(Focus) gives you a focused attack (spending the token or otherwise), Attack(Target Lock) means the dice are getting rerolled, and Homing Missiles... well, they get a rerolled shot without losing the lock to start with. Handy for letting you follow up with another attack next round.

That's pretty clever. Also doesn't break the setup demand of Advanced Proton Torpedo.

Doesnt work with warthogs (not a primary attack) and takes away corrans engine upgrade... check. Whats yhe next disqualifcation?

But Corran doesn't need to equip ordnance to be good and the warthogs are just fine as is too.

It's a simple solution to make ordnance work better for lists that are actually going to invest in it.

Doesnt work with warthogs (not a primary attack) and takes away corrans engine upgrade... check. Whats yhe next disqualifcation?

But Corran doesn't need to equip ordnance to be good and the warthogs are just fine as is too.

It's a simple solution to make ordnance work better for lists that are actually going to invest in it.

The only torpedo worth taking is flechette, because it does not have to be one-shot. All others, the plasma torpedo included add a marginal bonus compared to beam weapons and that for just one shot. Simply not worth it, not even two points. There is a case for missiles with area effect as they may force the opponent into open formation, but even this advantage is highly situational.