Man I am excited for bombers to be fun!

But it really is that clear, as your literal reading of the rule is impossible.

That is, you'll note that your argument that step 1 is skipped because the SLAM rules say 'jump to step 3'...also means that step 2 is skipped.

You know, the step where you choose the template that your maneuver wheel determined, and place that template on the board in front of your ship.

Your insisting that everything before the 'execute' step gets skipped means that SLAM could never actually be used - or, at least, the players would have to figure out a way to do the maneuver without using the template for it.

This is a great point... or at least it was two years ago, when we were trying to figure out how Daredevil and R2 worked together. Plenty of us thought it was silly to think that Daredevil might not give stress because there was no Step 4, and how could you execute a maneuver if you didn't do Step 2 and 5, so OF COURSE you could only execute a maneuver by doing (at a minimum) 2-5, so Step 4 had to be in there and applied to Daredevil and the red maneuver would give you stress...

Except FFG told us we were wrong, that "Execute a Maneuver" was just Step 3, and then we got errata to back it up, and that wording (white maneuver, then gain stress) appears on newer, similar abilities like Inertial Dampeners.

No, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Well, no more than having "place templates" and "pick up templates" as explicitly ordered steps makes any sense in the first place. And you know what? You know this. Have you ever seen anyone in a tournament say "Stop doing things out of order! You keep picking up your templates before you check for stress, and that's wrong!!" Is that common where you play? I expect not... so reordering Steps 4 and 5 is fine, but reordering 4 and 6 would draw a swift correction, no? That's been pretty universal. I've never met anyone who actually plays "Set Template" and "Clean Up" like explicit steps.

So let's skip this particular argument, shall we? It was debunked years ago, and you almost certainly haven't been playing like it matters. Although if I'm wrong, and you religiously require your opponents to deal with stress tokens before they pick up their templates, then I take it back and apologize. Although the rules foundation for "Execute a Maneuver" not including anything but Step 3 is still well-founded. Sorry.

I can totally imagine this conversation at FFG HQ:

> "Those bomb dropping rules... won't people think they will interfere with the advanced slam card?"

>> "Really? I hadn't thought about that... but we do want to make it possible to do that, right? "

> "Yeah, that makes it a lot nicer"

>> "Wait, I've got the solution. Why not make an example of this usage in the preview article. That way people KNOW we intended it like this. And we get to write an article about cool bomb dropping... It's win-win!"

> "Awesome, let's do it"

Anyway, on a different note. I am slightly disappointed they didn't spoil the dial for the K-Wing. Now we still don't know how good it is (compared to the Hound's Tooth and the Krrizseazsrf where we know almost all relevant info, save for a few upgrades).

The K-wing is even bigger than I thought. I calculated at 2 and 1/3 normal base before (slightly bigger than a large base). However from the preview article it seems it is almost as wide as the VT is long! Holy cow that's HUGE! Now I will have to totally adjust my storage to fit it it.

As for upgrades. I love the Conner Net (not sure if I like it more on the K-wing, or on Emon, who can basically drop that thing in all the right places). I don't like the Plasma Torpedos. I think it is very conservative as far as a 'fix' goes. It should have removed a shield before damage, it would be ok then.

Also, did anyone notice Arvel trying to pull an Executor death run on that VT? It takes some skilled manouvring to line up that A-wing like that

The difference between SLAM and ion/DD is the fact that ion states that you perform a white 1 straight, whether you have it or not, DD is a hard 1. SLAM says "choose and execute a maneuver on the ship's dial", which means you actively picks up the dial and selects your maneuver, then you reveal it to your opponent again when you've selected the maneuver. That's my interpretation of the wording.

It's funny how long this is getting discussed when everyone knows how they mean it.

It's all fun but I'd rather have competitive X-Wings than having to use K-Wings & bombs ...

So flying with a Firespray with the new bomb load outs are going to rock., Emon Azzameen (When dropping a bomb, you may use a Left Turn 3, Straight 3 or Right Turn 3 template instead of the straight 1 template).

Added with Andrasta (Your upgrade bar gains two additional Bomb upgrade icons) Seismic or Proximity, Conner Net and Ion Bombs.

Ooooh I cant wait. this means lots of ☠

You forgot to throw on Bombardier!

It's all fun but I'd rather have competitive X-Wings than having to use K-Wings & bombs ...

You don't think the new Torpedo will be worthwhile on X-wings? I've got ideas popping all over my brain thinking of different ways. Throw on Biggs and there is no way that you should die before being able to fire. Use Cracken or Dutch or any number of other techniques for the free TL for Rookie Pilot.

You know what? Maybe Plasma Torpedoes will help bring back Proton Torpedoes? How, you might ask? Figure you face an enemy ship with a lot of shields, but low agility. The Plasma Torpedo drops most or all the shields. The Proton Torpedo does a crit on an eyeball. What's not to love about that one? You don't need to use the Focus to make it worthwhile and have a good chance to get that crit through. Enemy probably used their defensive chits vs. the Plasma and is wide open.

You know, we haven't even gotten to the Tie Punisher yet, but I do feel like there is a lot of stuff to deal with big ships now. It's pretty exciting. Not just big ships, either. Some of the Ion stuff really can hurt ships like Soontir Fel or a Phantom. All those arc dodgers will be hating Conner Nets and Ion Bombs just as much as the big ships. Get Soontir to go through a Conner Net and it will be a lot easier to deal with him.

I think Y-wings just got a huge boost. They can take the new, cheap torpedoes. They can get Extra Munitions. They can use the Twin Laser Cannon. They can also drop bombs. Boost to the Y-wing!

I have prefered playing Imperials for a while with a lot of Scum and Villiany thrown in, but I haven't really enjoyed Rebels for a long while. I think with this release, I might be dusting off my old ships. I still am not that interested in the K-wing, but I love the upgrades to the older ships. I feel like I want to fly a bunch of X-wings and Y-wings.

idk, the new torp looks like a sack of crap to me

ffg still hasn't learned to ditch the target-lock spending requirement on torps, which is sad because they were doing well on missiles

the Y-wing's def getting a breath of fresh air, but it already got that last wave

idk, the new torp looks like a sack of crap to me

ffg still hasn't learned to ditch the target-lock spending requirement on torps, which is sad because they were doing well on missiles

What's not to love? Sure, it's not a complete fix for ordnance and you should build a list around it, but it's still pretty good. 3 pts for 4 attack dice is great. If it hits and they still have shield left, it takes another hit! Great for B-wings.

the Y-wing's def getting a breath of fresh air, but it already got that last wave

Yeah, but they got even more! They are more than Warthogs now. There are actual options.

I don't think that is correct. The Ion tokens would prevent you from revealing your dial so you would never be able to trigger Advanced Sensors.

1. Everyone set their dials

2. Scimitar Pilot activates and flies past IG-88B and drops a Conner Net on him.

3. IG-88B gets two Ion tokens and becomes Ionized, takes a point of damage and loses his Perform Action step.

4. IG-88B activates, does not reveal a dial (so can't use Advanced Sensors), performs a 1 white straight maneuver, removes all ion tokens, and does not perform an action.

We have a ruling relaying to Leebo and Advanced Sensors that if you get an ion token after you place your dial but before revealing it, you continue the turn as normal and the ion kicks in next turn. Same should apply here.

We have a ruling from Frank that never made it into the FAQ (I believe that two have been released since the email) that dealt with a different situation and Frank's email lacked any explanation as to how the rules led him to make the ruling. The situation in question was Leebo being activated with Advanced Sensors.

Leebo causing a ship to become ionized would prevent it from revealing a dial which would prevent it from using Advanced Sensors, which would prevent Leebo from being used would prevent the ship from being ionized which would allow it to reveal a dial which would allow it to use Advanced Sensors ... and you can keep going from there. The Conner Net creates no such paradox and since Frank didn't give any reasoning explaining the ruling he made (which seems to be based on developer's intent) there's no reason to think that this should be used as a precedent to ignore the rules which tell you how being Ionized in different phases effects a ship.

The Conner Net moves this from being an odd corner case that most people won't run into in the wild to a common game occurance. If the intent is that being Ionized after the planning phase means that there is no effect until the next planning phase then the rules for Ionization need to be errated to say so.

Well, the K-Wing looks fun! Though, I'll be honest, I'm more interested in the upgrades that come with it, than the ship itself.

Come, my pretty Wishbones! We have death to deal! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

*ahem* Sorry, got a little carried away...

Ok, I'll admit it, I skipped 9 pages, what's the big war in this thread about?

Nothing productive. Same arguments going back and forth, with neither side giving... Wait, isn't this how World War I started...?

Imagine it though, the K-wing leading a flight of Wishbones. A Lancaster leading SBDs (if both were made by the same company). You have to admit, that flying a K-wing next to Y-wings is going to be pretty boss.

As for Y-wings being the alpha hunter dealing death.... Carry on.

It's funny how long this is getting discussed when everyone knows how they mean it.

All that being said they aren't perfect by any stretch and this seems to be yet another clear cut case of a clumsy mistake they made. Yes, we know exactly how they intend SLAM to work based upon this article but they absolutely should have phrased things slightly differently. That's where the frustration comes in particularly for the people that have been playing since wave 1 and the Kessel Run days because there have been rules issues that never should have been rules issues with just a little more care.

For whatever it's worth this also comes on the heels of the complete screw job that the competitive play folks at FFG gave to the X-Wing community regarding Worlds this year. But that's a whole separate discussion (even though they did cost themselves an easy $10,000.00 - $15,000.00 in revenue but I'm not going to bring that up).

In the end, I still love X-Wing. I love FGG. But it is a bit frustrating that some of these things continue to crop up.

missed earlier post

It's funny how long this is getting discussed when everyone knows how they mean it.

I think a lot of it is borne out of frustration with FFG. I am an unabashed supporter of them overall as a company. I love their products, particularly the quality. I've been impressed with them on many levels and am generally very patient with releases even when things seem to take an excruciatingly long time.

All that being said they aren't perfect by any stretch and this seems to be yet another clear cut case of a clumsy mistake they made. Yes, we know exactly how they intend SLAM to work based upon this article but they absolutely should have phrased things slightly differently. That's where the frustration comes in particularly for the people that have been playing since wave 1 and the Kessel Run days because there have been rules issues that never should have been rules issues with just a little more care.

For whatever it's worth this also comes on the heels of the complete screw job that the competitive play folks at FFG gave to the X-Wing community regarding Worlds this year. But that's a whole separate discussion (even though they did cost themselves an easy $10,000.00 - $15,000.00 in revenue but I'm not going to bring that up).

In the end, I still love X-Wing. I love FGG. But it is a bit frustrating that some of these things continue to crop up.

I understand were you are coming from. However I'm a game designer myself and i can tell you it's getting easier to miss something if oyu designed the rule in the first place. Some misunderstandings just don't come up to your mind as easily if you always have known what you mean with it. You need testers and other persons to read over every singe word which can be a tedious and long process. This again can be interrupted by time pressure.

I'm not saying they shouldn't word it correctly, I'm rather trying to show you the other side and tell you they are only humans as well.

It's funny how long this is getting discussed when everyone knows how they mean it.

I think a lot of it is borne out of frustration with FFG. I am an unabashed supporter of them overall as a company. I love their products, particularly the quality. I've been impressed with them on many levels and am generally very patient with releases even when things seem to take an excruciatingly long time.

All that being said they aren't perfect by any stretch and this seems to be yet another clear cut case of a clumsy mistake they made. Yes, we know exactly how they intend SLAM to work based upon this article but they absolutely should have phrased things slightly differently. That's where the frustration comes in particularly for the people that have been playing since wave 1 and the Kessel Run days because there have been rules issues that never should have been rules issues with just a little more care.

For whatever it's worth this also comes on the heels of the complete screw job that the competitive play folks at FFG gave to the X-Wing community regarding Worlds this year. But that's a whole separate discussion (even though they did cost themselves an easy $10,000.00 - $15,000.00 in revenue but I'm not going to bring that up).

In the end, I still love X-Wing. I love FGG. But it is a bit frustrating that some of these things continue to crop up.

I understand were you are coming from. However I'm a game designer myself and i can tell you it's getting easier to miss something if oyu designed the rule in the first place. Some misunderstandings just don't come up to your mind as easily if you always have known what you mean with it. You need testers and other persons to read over every singe word which can be a tedious and long process. This again can be interrupted by time pressure.

I'm not saying they shouldn't word it correctly, I'm rather trying to show you the other side and tell you they are only humans as well.

Yup. And to me it's perfectly understandable. I don't have that big of an issue with it. It's simply my hunch where some of the animosity is coming from.

Part of me wonders if they made the wording deliberately ambiguous in case they need to do an FAQ nerf in the future.

I also just think that they were not prepared for the competitve scene to be such rules lawyers.

You know, the other thing I had not considered...

What if they are about to make an FAQ change to ALL of the abilities that involve 'revealing' your dial. Maybe you'll be able to Advanced sensors on an Ion move now. Or drop a bomb.

The difference between SLAM and ion/DD is the fact that ion states that you perform a white 1 straight, whether you have it or not, DD is a hard 1. SLAM says "choose and execute a maneuver on the ship's dial", which means you actively picks up the dial and selects your maneuver, then you reveal it to your opponent again when you've selected the maneuver.

No, it doesn't say anything remotely like that. It says to choose a maneuver from a list of maneuvers on your dial. That list can be anywhere, on the dial itself, on the maneuver reference sheets that come with the ship and are meant to be looked at during a game when someone needs to know what maneuvers are on a dial, on a piece of paper you keep with you, in your head. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the slam rules says you need to touch your dial at all. You guys are making the same argument as people who try to claim that a ship travels along the maneuver template when it moves "well OBVIOUSLY that is what you do. How else does it get to the end of the template".

Coming soon, to your Faq!

"in the slam reference card, where it says "choose a maneuver on your dial" it should actually say "choose and reveal a maneuver on your dial"

Fixed.

The reference card could/should be much clearer. I suggest a two sided printing, with the following statements...

"Choose a maneuver on your dial. Not in your head, not on a reference card, not from a list of maneuvers that appear on your dial, but actually on your dial (you know, the round thingy). After choosing, you must execute that maneuver and no other, which will inevitably lead to the revelation of what maneuver you did in fact choose. You shall not execute another maneuver, neither shall you execute your maneuver secretly, but you shall in fact execute the maneuver chosen on your dial (the round thingy)."

"To be completely clear, the dial is the round thingy. The actual, physical, round thingy that comes with every ship in the game. Not a list of maneuvers that are also coincidentally printed on the dial, not a memorized list of those maneuvers, not a reference card with those coincident maneuvers, but the actual round thing that came in the box."

"To reiterate, the dial is the round thingy."

"The round thing is the dial, and the dial is the round thing. A list is not a dial, neither is a reference card, but only the round thingy is a dial."

"Henceforth, the round thingy shall be referred to as the "dial", and all references to the "dial" previous or subsequent shall refer to the round thingy."

Guys, I'm obviously just poking a little fun here but it's clear that the intention was to actually select a maneuver on the dial in the same way you select a maneuver during the planning stage. I can see how it could be read as selecting from the list of maneuvers on the dial, but contextually (context provided by the article) it is clear that they meant you actually select a maneuver on the physical dial itself. Could it have been worded differently? Sure. But we do know what it means, and it's a cool mechanic, so I'm cool with it.

it's clear that the intention was to actually select a maneuver on the dial in the same way you select a maneuver during the planning stage.

That may be, but no one is arguing about that. The entire argument isn't about what the intent is, it is about what the rules actually say, and how to reconcile the rules with the intent in a way that won't break the game.

The reference card could/should be much clearer. I suggest a two sided printing, with the following statements...

"Choose a maneuver on your dial. Not in your head, not on a reference card, not from a list of maneuvers that appear on your dial, but actually on your dial (you know, the round thingy). After choosing, you must execute that maneuver and no other, which will inevitably lead to the revelation of what maneuver you did in fact choose. You shall not execute another maneuver, neither shall you execute your maneuver secretly, but you shall in fact execute the maneuver chosen on your dial (the round thingy)."

"To be completely clear, the dial is the round thingy. The actual, physical, round thingy that comes with every ship in the game. Not a list of maneuvers that are also coincidentally printed on the dial, not a memorized list of those maneuvers, not a reference card with those coincident maneuvers, but the actual round thing that came in the box."

"To reiterate, the dial is the round thingy."

"The round thing is the dial, and the dial is the round thing. A list is not a dial, neither is a reference card, but only the round thingy is a dial."

"Henceforth, the round thingy shall be referred to as the "dial", and all references to the "dial" previous or subsequent shall refer to the round thingy."

Guys, I'm obviously just poking a little fun here but it's clear that the intention was to actually select a maneuver on the dial in the same way you select a maneuver during the planning stage. I can see how it could be read as selecting from the list of maneuvers on the dial, but contextually (context provided by the article) it is clear that they meant you actually select a maneuver on the physical dial itself. Could it have been worded differently? Sure. But we do know what it means, and it's a cool mechanic, so I'm cool with it.

Might be just me, but this post really reminded me of the "holy hand grenade" instructions from Monty Python

thou shalt hold up thy holy maneuver dial

not thy focus token nor thy target lock...

the maneuver dial shalt be the cardboard thou shalt hold up

and the cardboard of the holding up shalt be the maneuver dial

the range ruler shalt thou not touch

nor either the maneuver templates, excepting that thou hafth proceedth from the maneuver dial

Part of me wonders if they made the wording deliberately ambiguous in case they need to do an FAQ nerf in the future.

I also just think that they were not prepared for the competitve scene to be such rules lawyers.

2) That's basically the competitive scene's job.