Oh great green one, explain how you choose and show maneuver to oponent without revealing dial to him? And slam action has "choose maneuver"

Easy -- I never turn the dial face down, spin to the maneuver I want, and do it. Nothing is ever hidden, so there's nothing to reveal.

I agree with you, and therefore, based on this assessment, the K-wing probably doesn't have a K-turn, or it will have a 4 K and no 4 straight. Maybe a 5 K, but seems unlikely.

That is most likely. A 4K turn but not 4 or 5 straight. that would seem about right for a ship as big as it is and with a new super speed action.

My guess is it has a HWK dial with maybe 3 hard red turn and the 3 banks white. I agree on not having a 4 straight unless its red maybe. That way you couldn't do two consecutive 4 straights.

Anyone else noticed how ridiculous it looks on a small base compared to tie fighters in this picture?

I agree with you, and therefore, based on this assessment, the K-wing probably doesn't have a K-turn, or it will have a 4 K and no 4 straight. Maybe a 5 K, but seems unlikely.

That is most likely. A 4K turn but not 4 or 5 straight. that would seem about right for a ship as big as it is and with a new super speed action.

My guess is it has a HWK dial with maybe 3 hard red turn and the 3 banks white. I agree on not having a 4 straight unless its red maybe. That way you couldn't do two consecutive 4 straights.

I'll be surprised and extremely happy if it has white 3-banks.

Is it 2 or 3 banks in the image provided? I was pretty sure its 3 banks... and if he SLAMs, they're obviously not red.

For Slam: It's says choose and execute a maneuver. To me I would have to pick up my dial to choose a maneuver.

You have to show your opponent the dial after you choose the maneuver, so to me you are revealing the dial. Hench the bomb can be dropped.

I'm sure they'll FAQ it, but it's pretty straightforward to me.

Hell, FFG even provide us with a handy chart showing all the maneuvers on the dial. Even if you limit yourself to official FFG stuff you get in the expansion, you don't even have to touch the dial in order to choose a maneuver that's on the dial.

As it stands at the moment, you do not reveal a dial before SLAMing, and until FFG errata I am forced to assume that the article has merely done the usual thing of making Yet Another Mistake. I find this to be more likely than assuming that FFG has deliberately switched over to the "let's leave out half the rules and players can make it up as they go along" school of thought.

I agree with you, and therefore, based on this assessment, the K-wing probably doesn't have a K-turn, or it will have a 4 K and no 4 straight. Maybe a 5 K, but seems unlikely.

That is most likely. A 4K turn but not 4 or 5 straight. that would seem about right for a ship as big as it is and with a new super speed action.

My guess is it has a HWK dial with maybe 3 hard red turn and the 3 banks white. I agree on not having a 4 straight unless its red maybe. That way you couldn't do two consecutive 4 straights.

I'll be surprised and extremely happy if it has white 3-banks.

Is it 2 or 3 banks in the image provided? I was pretty sure its 3 banks... and if he SLAMs, they're obviously not red.

I'll bet their 2 banks. Although they do look like 3's. I think the dial will be much like the Y-wing, but no 3 hard turns or K-turns.

Honestly I hadn't looked at the image. I don't put a lot of stock in their articles.

Ahm ... so bombs can be dropped right before performing an action which happens to count as a maneuver?

No. Only if the dial is involved.

Still, that feels like cheating. I don't know. Like mentioned already, you don't 'reveal' the dial ...

Seems like Imperials have the worst bombers by now.

for 7 points less, it better be the "worst"

of course, that misses the point entirely that bombers are actually cost efficient ships and naked K-wings are about as threatening as Tie Fighters for double the price

Because all rebels needed was another means of recovering shields, plus put R2D2 the crew member on that ship and you have a real couch fu**cker

The K stands for Kare Bear, didn't you know?

Another range 3 turret. Just what the game needed.

Plasma torpedo: enough power creep to make the proton torpedo obsolete, not enough power creep to actually use that thing. Oh, and the heaviest bomber is faster than an interceptor.

Sigh.

You must be fun at parties

Looking amazing for Y-wings and K-wings, and both are 2 of my favorite Rebel Ships (A-wing wins over K-wing though)

While it doesn't say that word, it's relatively safe to follow the logic of 'I need to choose a maneuver from this dial. I look for a maneuver on it and the pick one. I must then show my opponent what I've picked so they realize I'm not cheating, I guess I should reveal the maneuver I chose."

While this take some reading that is not purely parsing the words on paper, I think it isn't a stretch, and is the intention of their wording.

I disagree, it's not safe to follow that train of thought at all. You're bringing the rules down to assumption and intent when, as written, they're both clear and adequate given the circumstances. If this was a scenario where the interaction wasn't completely clear, then I could understand the confusion, but this isn't one of those scenarios. The assumptions being made here are completely contradictory to the actual rules of the game, and aren't necessary in the slightest to understand the new interactions being presented. The only reason we're having this conversation at all is because FFG done goofed with the article.

But it really is that clear, as your literal reading of the rule is impossible.

That is, you'll note that your argument that step 1 is skipped because the SLAM rules say 'jump to step 3'...also means that step 2 is skipped.

You know, the step where you choose the template that your maneuver wheel determined, and place that template on the board in front of your ship.

Your insisting that everything before the 'execute' step gets skipped means that SLAM could never actually be used - or, at least, the players would have to figure out a way to do the maneuver without using the template for it.

Ok, I'll admit it, I skipped 9 pages, what's the big war in this thread about?

Ok, I'll admit it, I skipped 9 pages, what's the big war in this thread about?

SLAM reference card is worded badly and says that to do a SLAM action, you execute a maneuver on your dial, but doesn't say that you choose that maneuver on your dial and reveal your dial.

to make matters worse, FFG's article says that you can drop a bomb before performing the SLAM maneuver because it's totally a maneuver you guys, even though the rules for dropping bombs state that you must reveal a dial to drop a bomb and, again, the SLAM reference card says nothing about revealing a dial.

so people are fighting about "follow the rules as written, even if they make no sense" versus "use common sense and assume that everyone has read the article to learn the developers' intent"

While it doesn't say that word, it's relatively safe to follow the logic of 'I need to choose a maneuver from this dial. I look for a maneuver on it and the pick one. I must then show my opponent what I've picked so they realize I'm not cheating, I guess I should reveal the maneuver I chose."

While this take some reading that is not purely parsing the words on paper, I think it isn't a stretch, and is the intention of their wording.

I disagree, it's not safe to follow that train of thought at all. You're bringing the rules down to assumption and intent when, as written, they're both clear and adequate given the circumstances. If this was a scenario where the interaction wasn't completely clear, then I could understand the confusion, but this isn't one of those scenarios. The assumptions being made here are completely contradictory to the actual rules of the game, and aren't necessary in the slightest to understand the new interactions being presented. The only reason we're having this conversation at all is because FFG done goofed with the article.

But it really is that clear, as your literal reading of the rule is impossible.

That is, you'll note that your argument that step 1 is skipped because the SLAM rules say 'jump to step 3'...also means that step 2 is skipped.

You know, the step where you choose the template that your maneuver wheel determined, and place that template on the board in front of your ship.

Your insisting that everything before the 'execute' step gets skipped means that SLAM could never actually be used - or, at least, the players would have to figure out a way to do the maneuver without using the template for it.

Read the card. Read the rules.

Ok, I'll admit it, I skipped 9 pages, what's the big war in this thread about?

SLAM reference card is worded badly and says that to do a SLAM action, you execute a maneuver on your dial, but doesn't say that you choose that maneuver on your dial and reveal your dial.

to make matters worse, FFG's article says that you can drop a bomb before performing the SLAM maneuver because it's totally a maneuver you guys, even though the rules for dropping bombs state that you must reveal a dial to drop a bomb and, again, the SLAM reference card says nothing about revealing a dial.

so people are fighting about "follow the rules as written, even if they make no sense" versus "use common sense and assume that everyone has read the article to learn the developers' intent"

Ahh, I'd assume that FFG wouldn't a mistake as big as that, so they'll probably FAQ it

Ok, I'll admit it, I skipped 9 pages, what's the big war in this thread about?

SLAM reference card is worded badly and says that to do a SLAM action, you execute a maneuver on your dial, but doesn't say that you choose that maneuver on your dial and reveal your dial.

to make matters worse, FFG's article says that you can drop a bomb before performing the SLAM maneuver because it's totally a maneuver you guys, even though the rules for dropping bombs state that you must reveal a dial to drop a bomb and, again, the SLAM reference card says nothing about revealing a dial.

so people are fighting about "follow the rules as written, even if they make no sense" versus "use common sense and assume that everyone has read the article to learn the developers' intent"

You had me until the very end, where you inferred that only the "it's a reveal" camp is using their brains.

Use whatever kind of sense you want, common or otherwise. The rules are pretty straightforward, and if you don't like them, enjoy your casual games where the rules are made up and the points don't matter.

Twin Laser Turret has me very excited. Maybe it's what my HWK290s need to stay in the game!

Rebel HWKs will benefit most from TLT, since most of their abilities are range 1-3 anyway and you want to keep them out of harm's way. Now it will definitely be possible. Not to mention that TLT will not be as affected of not having actions, so perhaps Engine upgrade on HWKs will be cool to use to stay at range 3.

I think this is the first time I've really seen a Rules as Written vs Rules as Intended debate go on this long, good job on rule wordings FFG.

For my two cents, if I remember correctly, the SLAM action's reveal was about how it could allow you to drop a bomb after maneuvering, at the cost of not being able to shoot. There wasn't a reference card to debate rules with that time, and I'm typing this without looking at the page.

Anyway, given all the examples and examples in the article, I'd say it's intended to allow you to drop a bomb, even if it's not worded quite that way. I think we're looking at a definite FAQ, if the SLAM reference just straight-up said "You may/may not drop a bomb as you would for a regular maneuver" well it'd be a lot easier to discuss, since we'd be approaching it with full knowledge of both rules and intent.

As for the K-Wing itself, it looks ore ridiculous every time I look at it on the base and I love it. I was already planning to buy at least two before they even announced they would make a K-Wing expansion, now I know how great they'll look towering over everything with their wings.

I love you guys at FFG. You present your RAI and have your public work out the RAW for you. I think the person who's version of the rule gets used should get the Dev's pay for a week. Its about as long as they playtest anything.

Ok, I'll admit it, I skipped 9 pages, what's the big war in this thread about?

SLAM reference card is worded badly and says that to do a SLAM action, you execute a maneuver on your dial, but doesn't say that you choose that maneuver on your dial and reveal your dial.

to make matters worse, FFG's article says that you can drop a bomb before performing the SLAM maneuver because it's totally a maneuver you guys, even though the rules for dropping bombs state that you must reveal a dial to drop a bomb and, again, the SLAM reference card says nothing about revealing a dial.

so people are fighting about "follow the rules as written, even if they make no sense" versus "use common sense and assume that everyone has read the article to learn the developers' intent"

Actually, the card absolutely DOES say you choose a maneuver on your dial. In fact, it uses exactly that wording. I admit, FFG skipped the statement that after choosing and before executing, you will have to reveal that dial. Perhaps it is unclear, or perhaps they assumed too much by believing "reveal", "choose template" etc. could go without saying.

Considering how much space the current wording takes, further wording explaining that you actually have to reveal the maneuver you picked before you execute it seems like an unnecessary waste of space. For it to skip the reveal step, it would probably just say "execute a maneuver on your dial as if it were assigned" in the same vein as "as if it were assigned a white 1 straight".

Regardless, the level of hand wringing involved when slightly ambiguous wording is clarified in the SAME article is amazing. You are choosing a maneuver on the dial, revealing it, and executing the maneuver despite the fact that the card doesn't explicitly state the requirements of "revealing" and "choosing templates" that occur in the middle between the two steps actually stated.

It's cool, it makes bombers work, there is no doubt about what happens, why do we need 9 pages of angst over it?

Because people need SOMETHING to talk about besides how they'll actually use the dang thing