As an experienced gamer (from CCGs to Miniatures), I've enjoyed my first few games of Armada. There are a lot of good elements about the game. I do have two overarching concerns/thoughts, though:

1) The point of squadrons

Three games in, my conflicts have all been "squadron vs. squadron" and "ship vs. ship" affairs. It almost feels like two different games are occurring in the area- the squadrons don't do much damage to ships and vice versa. When squadrons do attack ships, I've found any ship at speed 2 or higher just moves away before the squadron can get in much firing . . . that said, If I would field only ships, would that strengthen my game? Or must I keep squadrons close to my ships (and use the 'squadron' command dial/token) for them to be useful against ships? Just curious about that.

2) Movement

Whether it's constant ramming, leaving the map, or just spending the game doing circles around each other, I've found the movement element somewhat disappointing. If I would put anything at speed 3, I have to decelerate pretty early or risk zooming by or leaving the map entirely. Even speed 2 (for larger, less agile ships) seems annoying. Should I just set everything to speed 1 and go from there?

Appreciate your thoughts!

First off Welcome to the game and community! as for 1) Squadrons are really a play style choice a fleet can be successful with out them. They(squadrons) can be really effective against ships if used right but to work against ships they almost have to be sheparded by your ships other wise they can be used simply as a protection for your own cap ships. It is important to remember that squadrons may not appear to be useful if you roll bad in one game, or because they don't single handedly destroy ships but they can cause significant damage especially because when activated with a ship command they attack before the ship does so they may strip shields and/or cause the "loss" of defense tokens so when the ship does fire it will cause a higher portion of its damage to "soak thru"

and

2) though movement is a little strange it has been similar in about every fleet style game I have played it is something that you must get figured out, I too have flown many a ship off of the board but that is often a large part of the game. It also appears thematic in nature since "spaceships" cant exactly stop or turn on a dime so sometimes their momentum carries them where they wouldn't expect. It seems strange but every fleet level game I have played is the same way you can fly effectively at high speeds you just sometimes have to take sub optimal moves to avoid the board edges.

These are all just My Opinions but hopefully I answered some of your questions. Just keep at it and welcome to Armada!

Re: Squadron v Squadron

I've found that more I play the squadrons, the more complex they seem. In the beginning they used to often end with a stalemate because I would actively go after the enemy squadrons. However I find that the trick is to tie up the enemy fighters and go after the ships. A lot of it is about using the squadrons efficiently.

You are right that if you field fast ships you can avoid squadrons to some extent. Slower ships can get badly damaged though. One of the advantages of squadrons is that defence tokens are not nearly as effective when you're chipping away with individual dice, especially if the ship has been taking fire from other ships.

Ship speed

This seems to change as you play with more points/ships. You can always use those navigate dials/tokens.

It'll also depend on the ships you use, the VSDs are not fast!

Ideally you can keep your squadrons close Nd use the command to activate them as others have said. Much of that depends on what your opponent is fielding as well. Squadrons are the best way to defeat enemy ones as opposed to using attacks from your own ships. It frees up your big guns to do more real damage. They are a bit of a distraction element early on, but become more of a strategy (offense or defense) as you play more. It is a nice game element. They have for the beginner and advanced player with different purposes.

As for movement, are you playing on the full 3'x6' area? It allows a lot more options for swinging back and forth with the faster ships and still staying in the battle. The navigate command is extremely useful for the extra yaw click at times. It does take a bit of time to learn. I agree it is easier as you are improving to lower the speed by 1 on your ships to give you more room.

Keep playing and have fun!

I'm using a 3' x 3' play area, which does seem overly limiting.

Thanks for the responses!

Fighters in space naval combat games are always an item of contention.

In Star Fleet Battles they are WAY overpowered. Also, in Battlefleet Gothic they were quite strong...and almost infinite.

They got it quite right in Armada I think.

I guess the bit about squadrons that makes them a little difficult to wrap one's head around is that you have to plan ahead

apart from spamming squadron commands (have to end round in range of a ship to constantly spam it) you have to position them in range of where you think the enemy ship is going to be--especially if using slower squadrons like b-wings

speaking of, if you want to eviscerate ships with squadrons, bring B-wings (only 2 dice bombers) or Rhyer (dat range)

If you think of Armada in terms of being inspired by World War II naval battles, you may see the rationale behind much of the game design. Squadrons move a lot faster than ships so you might need squadrons of your own to take them down quickly. Unchecked squadrons can attack and wear down ships but need to be in large numbers or carry specialized weaponry to do so. Whether you choose to field squadrons or not depends on your meta and play style.

Playing on a 3' X 6' surface would solve a lot of your movement concerns though ramming will still happen. It is both a design quirk and a valid strategy.

Both of your questions are common concerns for newer players. As people have said, the 3x6 will alleviate some, though not all of your movement issues. Experience should take care of the rest. This game takes a little while before you get the hang of the manuever tool. As you play with each ship more, you get a better feel for how they operate.

As for fighters, they can be very effective. Ahriman and squid did a solid job concisely illuminating the benefits of squadrons, and Fickle is right about B-Wings. I want to add that for anti-ship purposes, the rebel fighters should not be underestimated. 3 of the 4 fighters they have access to bring bomber, and the A-Wing brings a black dice. That dice has a .75 damage expectancy per roll. Also, certain objectives will reward you for effective fighter complements. Superior positions tokens can be earned from fighter attacks, and Contested Outpost can be a B-wing feeding frenzy despite the aversion most rebel players have to it based on the efficacy of imperial ships at close range.

In short, don't worry too much about the movement or the fighters. As you gain experience, you will come to better understand and appreciate both of those facets of the game and the depth they provide.

About everything you can say on this subject has been said, so I'll just add my little bit quickly.

I like to view Fighter effectiveness through the ships themselves, and to me it really boils down to the Imperials as to whether they're needed or not.

The VSD is a slow moving ship, it can't outrun any Fighter in the game, and doesn't have very good anti-squadron firepower. If Rebels bring any Fighters, they can be like piranha nibbling a VSD to death without Fighter escort, so it almost becomes required to bring a Fighter CAP of some size.

The GSD can outrun anything but an A-wing pretty easily, but it does need to close range to do any serious damage. That means a Rebel can keep their Fighters close to their ships waiting for the Gladiator, and then combine ship and Fighters firepower versus the GSD. Unless the GSD again brings some kind of Fighter screen.

Rebels don't suffer the same Fighter dependency, mostly because Impy Squadrons are much more defined as Fighters or Bombers, while the Rebs are all Bombers or Fighter/Bombers. So, if a Rebel leaves his Fighters at home, he probably won't be in as much danger as the Impy doing the same.

For your point about movement, you actually have to plan for what your ship will do the entire game then putting it into action rather than playing reactively and planning each turn for a single turn. I found that doing so both prevented last minute steering but also dramatically increased the performance of the ships. Even a more reactive ship like the Corvette isn't just nimble enough to play purely reactively.

As others have said, you need to play on a 6' x 3'. You also need to use the Scenarios, as they are integral to the game balance.

For squadrons, do what you fancy. I've played 8 (ish) games without any as Imperial, and don't miss them. Others swear by them. This probably means that they are reasonably pointed/balanced. Options/choice are a good thing, and the current limiting factor is lack of ship types, which will be fixed as new waves are released.

As an experienced gamer (from CCGs to Miniatures), I've enjoyed my first few games of Armada. There are a lot of good elements about the game. I do have two overarching concerns/thoughts, though:

1) The point of squadrons

Three games in, my conflicts have all been "squadron vs. squadron" and "ship vs. ship" affairs. It almost feels like two different games are occurring in the area- the squadrons don't do much damage to ships and vice versa. When squadrons do attack ships, I've found any ship at speed 2 or higher just moves away before the squadron can get in much firing . . . that said, If I would field only ships, would that strengthen my game? Or must I keep squadrons close to my ships (and use the 'squadron' command dial/token) for them to be useful against ships? Just curious about that.

2) Movement

Whether it's constant ramming, leaving the map, or just spending the game doing circles around each other, I've found the movement element somewhat disappointing. If I would put anything at speed 3, I have to decelerate pretty early or risk zooming by or leaving the map entirely. Even speed 2 (for larger, less agile ships) seems annoying. Should I just set everything to speed 1 and go from there?

Appreciate your thoughts!

I love Armada to death, but yeah, you're touching upon some of the least appealing aspects of the game.

1) Squadrons: the can move OR attack during the SQUADRON phase, unless commanded, makes fighters very dependent on cap ships. When if first bought the game, it almost made me stop playing. I've gotten USED to it now, but I still absolutely hate it. WHY FFG, WHY!?? It would have be so much better if it was move AND fire. The squadron command could have had another effect - or just allowed them to act in the ship phase.

Anyway, the need for ships to command squadrons, the limited command range, and how easy it is to tie down a superior fighter force (and by the time the fight is over the battle has often moved elsewhere), I don't know...I've had some success with A-wing swarms, but these days I pretty much go for the minimum fighter support.

2) You get used to the movement patterns of the various ships pretty quickly. But yeah, the size of the board, the objectives, and the 6-turn limit makes for some strange maneuvering. And the ramming rules make no sense at all. None. Just accept them and move on. It will save you some sanity loss.

If the command stack reflects some sort of bureaucracy and chain of command trappings within capital ships, I think of squadron responsiveness as team play versus individual heroics. The use of an Activate Squadron command gives the distracted fighters a specific objective with their squad leaders spurring them into action.

A fighter squadron not being affected by a Squadron Command is basically just flying around, picking targets of opportunity. Once under the effect of a Squadron order they are acting in a coordinated manner, and as such are much more effective.

For engaging enemy fighters, move or fire is ok. Obviously a squadron order is always more effective, but since you can pin enemy fighters in place by engaging them, move or fire is fine. Against capital ships you really need the squadron order, since they will move away from you after before you have a chance to shoot at them.

The thing is, the best way to kill fighters is with other fighters. It's usually quite difficult for capital ships to hurt fighters. So the game then evolves a new layer, where players are attempting to neutralise the enemy fighters in order to get their own squadrons into position to attack enemy ships. Sometimes this is just a massive furball where all the squadrons on the board are engaged, but this is the entry-level tactic where you try and overpower the enemy squadrons through blunt force trauma, and fly through their scattered wreckage to attack the capital ships. A more subtle method is to fly your interceptors into the enemy squadrons to engage them, while your bombers move past them and remain unengaged, able to attack the enemy. I say interceptors because both A Wings and TIE Interceptors have 'counter' which makes them very capable of engaging multiple enemy squadrons. And you can even Escort Soontir Fel to make maximum use of his special ability.

Then ships like Yavaris and Gallant Haven add different ways to manage your fighters. If someone tries to run some interceptors into your fighters to engage them, a well timed squadron order can obliterate the enemy and allow you to counter strike very effectively.

I see the 2 ways of activating fighters as the 2 main roles they perform

Combat Air Patrol - Prividing a layer of defence against enemy bomber strike packages. In this role they remain close to your capital ships, keeping up with them and passively engaging enemy fighters, thus not requiring a squadron command. Anything with counter is most effective at this role.

Strike Package - Bomber package with fighter escorts, or a self escort stike fighter (looking at you x-wing), held close to the carrier ship until a ship target is in range to be engaged in one activation. This is where Squadron commands are critical, and should be banked up on your carrier, as they allow the squadrons to keep up with the ship, engaging any defensive fighter screens, then surging forward in order to swarm a target as one strike package. Squadron commands then become essential in keeping the strike package in range of the ever moving target, otherwise they will be left behind. They will also be supported by your carrier ships main battery shots.

Have you and your opponents tried deliberately skewing the points spent on squadrons one way or the other? By this I mean one player agrees to bring a lot, say >75 points, and one person not much, say <34 points?

In my early games I found it was quite easy to have the four x-wings and six TIE fighters pretty much destroy one another for very little effect on the game. Really that’s the result of inexperience, and equal points in squadrons that preform the same role (roughly).

Another tip you might find handy is to chain squadron commands together (especially with bombers chasing ships). One squadron command helps squadrons a lot, two or three consecutive commands helps them even more - at that point even a reasonably fast ship is going to be caught and destroyed by fast bombers attacking its weakest facing several turns in a row. Slower bombers with consecutive commands can either brutally harry a slow ship, or force a faster one to disengage….Imagine a few squadrons of B-wings chasing a gladiator….the gladiator can stick around and die, or it can accelerate to safety, but it won’t be using its short ranged guns any more if it does that…..just don’t throw the squadrons too far forward so they can threaten the area you don’t want the enemy to be in.

I have done that. When I expect squadrons to start their jobs I would just spam the command for a full stack or longer

Not read all the posts so apologies if some of this has been said already.

Re: squadrons.

They can be very effective against ships, but ideally you should be using bombers and you need to support them with your cap ships. A squadron command activating 3 or 4 fighters can be very effective, but if you are playing against a fighter heavy opponent, it is usually crucial to get in the first squadron attacks and take out some enemy fighters before they can attack you. This means going first is often advantageous (and therefore, you need to consider the initiative bid to ensure you can do this).

Whilst squadron vs. squadron ca seem like a separate game, once you equip your ships accordingly and give your fighters some support, you really start to see how one benefits from the other. This means using the Squadron Command a lot. And upgrades like Flight Controllers can really make a difference. You also need to position your ships & squadrons accordingly to ensure they stay with medium range of each other for future commands.

I almost exclusively play squadron heavy, and recently had excellent success with my Rebel All Stars list - the squadrons have taken out a VSD on more than one occasion. Off the top of my head, the list looks something like this:

Squadrons: Luke, Wedge, Dutch, Keyan, Tycho

Neb B + Yavaris + Raymus

AF2 + Fighter Bays + Flight Controllers (Gallant Haven and/or Aldar also works well, but I don't like to put too many upgrades on one ship)

Note that all the fighters are aces, and 4 of them are Bombers. With Yavaris and careful positioning, 3 of those bombers are getting 2 attack each (which from Keyan is usually devastating with his rerolls). I also pick objectives that play to the advantages of this list should I end up being second player, such as Precision Strike.

Alternatively, a load of X-Wings works very well too as they are good against squadrons and ships.

I've gotten USED to it now, but I still absolutely hate it. WHY FFG, WHY!?? It would have be so much better if it was move AND fire. The squadron command could have had another effect - or just allowed them to act in the ship phase.

But that makes for really interesting decisions and tactics. And also it helps to balance the game - if you're the one engaging, then you've got an advantage, as you've decided on that element of board control, but, if the squadrons you're engaging haven't activated, then you'll get shot at.

I've gotten USED to it now, but I still absolutely hate it. WHY FFG, WHY!?? It would have be so much better if it was move AND fire. The squadron command could have had another effect - or just allowed them to act in the ship phase.

But that makes for really interesting decisions and tactics. And also it helps to balance the game - if you're the one engaging, then you've got an advantage, as you've decided on that element of board control, but, if the squadrons you're engaging haven't activated, then you'll get shot at.

Also, remember this is a capital ship game. If the fighters were too powerful on their own, we wouldn't need ships and might as well play X-Wing

I actually like how the fighters work. As jonboy said, it means you have to make more tactical decisions, not just in how you deploy and move fighters, but also how you build your fleet to support them.

What I've found interesting about the game is that non-wargamers have been willing to try it entirely because of the franchise. This is great for me as I get to try and convert more people to wargamers! It is interesting to see their reactions as the game is pretty complex and as a wargame/minature game without a "board" it's very different to what they are used to.

I've been playing 180pt games using pretty much the suggested rebel/empire builds per the FFG website.

My experience has certainly been people try and take out each others squadrons first, but it's pretty clearly because the rebel's want to get their Luke/X-Wing to attack the destroyer. Luke's ability is great but on it's own is nevery going to be enough (with the 180 point set up the destroyer can repair two dmg cards in a round after all).

It's true I've never seen the Imperial player use Tie's like this, but that's because either they've blatted the rebel ships comphrensively with the destroyer or because the tie's are downed quickly by the x-wing.

So far I've seen 1 rebel player victory, but that was a bit lame, the two new players flew around each other and no one scored any sort of hit on the other. I've never seen the Imperial lose a ship in my games and my biggest "thought" concern is that it's too hard for the rebels to pull this off at 180 pts and it's really offputing for new players.

This is because I find new players don't care about objectives and just want to shoot each other... I guess it's my fault for not pushing objectives on them eh?

I think that fighters should be able to move at a reduced speed (half rounded up) and attack instead of just move or attack during the Squadron phase. The one or the other reduces fighter effectiveness tremendously. Also allowing a half move decreases the power of Squadron commands that are often arguably the most powerful in the game. It will in the end place focus back on ship and what and how to command them and not so much on fighters. Just my 2 cents from all the games I've played.

rebel players who can't kill the VSD at 180 simply aren't being suicidally aggressive enough

ram that *****!

rebel players who can't kill the VSD at 180 simply aren't being suicidally aggressive enough

ram that *****!

I have to admit that when I played rebels for the first time I ended up ramming away because I thought that shooting+ramming+xwings would be enough to kill it and I'd win either with a corvette (in the rear ark) or x-wings being left on the table.

I was wrong... blame poor dice rolling if you like but the VSD being able to repair 2 hull damage a turn was enough to survive it all. (Redirect/brace was enough to make sure the corvette never made it past shields, and Luke + surviving x-wing couldn't do damage fast enough).

I felt a bit bad as a quite experienced (read old) wargamer that I couldn't win on my first attempt at Rebel vs an intelligent guy who'd never player Imperial before. As a point of pride I did get 7 hull damage on the wretched VSD before his repair orders kicked in (+ free token kicked in) and he could repair 2 damage per turn. This is the most I've personally seen inflicted on a VSD at 180 points. Of course if he hadn't been rolling as if he was Bond himself and I could have rolled for toffee I would have won ;-)