I am just going to point out there is life support. It is what the TIEs helmet plugs into. That life support is what keeps the pilot alive on long missions. The ship just does not pressurize the cockpit. Just like our real life fighters today. So you wear breathing apparatus. But for a short jaunt between ships.. you would be fine.

Yeah, TIEs never had life support before. Why'd they get it now?

I was brought up in the West End Games era of things where TIE Fighters lacked life support (sense the crazy helmets and hoses those guys wore), were cramped, and had no ejection system because pilots were considered an expendable asset.

With that said, your GM should go with whatever seems the most fun. If someone wants to be super-tied to canon then you got your answers from "Rebels". I'm sticking to the cheap TIE Fighter with little regard for pilot comfort and safety in my game and that's just fine with my group. Other groups can do whatever seems the most fun to them.

This still going on? We don't know that they do have life-support. Nearly all of the flying of Ties by the rebels takes place in-atmosphere or by remote using their droid Chopper. The ONLY instance we see of them flying unprotected in a Tie in Space is a very brief and emergency use where they fly out of an exploding Death Star in one and are picked up approximately forty seconds later.

Lets all panic that canon may have changed when we have a reason to, not before.

Since when do Tie's not have life support? Now that the EU has been eliminated you must, to quote a wise little guy, unlearn what you have learn. If you consider cannon sources then there isn't any direct evidence one way or another. There is however indirect evidence that they do. When a tie explodes there's an orange fireball which could only happen in the presence of oxygen if my understanding is correct.

Imperial tie pilots wore helmets for the same reasons that storm troopers do cinematically. To dehumanize them. It's the same reason rebel pilots had open faced helmets. Something completely impractical in space since you can't really eject without a closed helmet. It was to make them more human.

Having not participated in the WEG days I consider myself lucky to not have that extra baggage. While they did a great job growing the shared universe, many of their ideas are quite impractical, silly, or both.

Since when do Tie's not have life support? Now that the EU has been eliminated you must, to quote a wise little guy, unlearn what you have learn. If you consider cannon sources then there isn't any direct evidence one way or another. There is however indirect evidence that they do. When a tie explodes there's an orange fireball which could only happen in the presence of oxygen if my understanding is correct.

Imperial tie pilots wore helmets for the same reasons that storm troopers do cinematically. To dehumanize them. It's the same reason rebel pilots had open faced helmets. Something completely impractical in space since you can't really eject without a closed helmet. It was to make them more human.

Tie pilot helmets have a couple of hoses coming from the mask that seem to be for breathing. Everyone else we see aboard a spaceship (X-Wings, Y-wings, whatever) has an open helmet or none at all. This is suggestive that Tie cockpits are not pressurized or lack oxygen replacement. Regardless of whether there might be a behind-the-curtain reason for having the imperial pilots helmeted, it's the in-universe reasons that conclusions are drawn from and nobody in the imperial chain of command ever said: "our soldiers will wear helmets so that audiences in another dimension will be less likely to think of them as people".

As to a Tie exploding, it could be anything - star wars science is iffy - but regardless, no-one has said that there is no oxygen onboard a Tie-fighter. Clearly the pilots breathe. The supposition is that they breathe through hooking their suits up to some system rather than the air in the cockpit being maintained.

Since when do Tie's not have life support? Now that the EU has been eliminated you must, to quote a wise little guy, unlearn what you have learn. If you consider cannon sources then there isn't any direct evidence one way or another. There is however indirect evidence that they do. When a tie explodes there's an orange fireball which could only happen in the presence of oxygen if my understanding is correct.

Imperial tie pilots wore helmets for the same reasons that storm troopers do cinematically. To dehumanize them. It's the same reason rebel pilots had open faced helmets. Something completely impractical in space since you can't really eject without a closed helmet. It was to make them more human.

Tie pilot helmets have a couple of hoses coming from the mask that seem to be for breathing. Everyone else we see aboard a spaceship (X-Wings, Y-wings, whatever) has an open helmet or none at all. This is suggestive that Tie cockpits are not pressurized or lack oxygen replacement. Regardless of whether there might be a behind-the-curtain reason for having the imperial pilots helmeted, it's the in-universe reasons that conclusions are drawn from and nobody in the imperial chain of command ever said: "our soldiers will wear helmets so that audiences in another dimension will be less likely to think of them as people".

As to a Tie exploding, it could be anything - star wars science is iffy - but regardless, no-one has said that there is no oxygen onboard a Tie-fighter. Clearly the pilots breathe. The supposition is that they breathe through hooking their suits up to some system rather than the air in the cockpit being maintained.

Hoses that could be part of their suit system for after ejection or could plug into the tie's systems much like modern fighter aircraft. A closed helmet is really the most sane way to go into space. The open faced helmets used by the alliance in the movies were done that way so that the audience could could identify with the characters and their plight not out of any form of logic or functionality. Having an unsealed or open helmet in a space fighter would pretty much preclude the possibility of ejecting. The helmets that the B-Wing pilots used could work with a face screen that snapped down, but the open X and Y-Wing helmets would be idiotic to wear if you had any hope of ejecting. Now, if you're planning on going big or going home and either win or die, then cool, wear the open helmet. You won't be ejecting so it doesn't really matter.

It's cool that people have different interpretations of what cannon information we have could mean, but now that the convoluted, fanboy mess* of the EU is out there is no definitive answer and each GM/group is free to decide for themselves.

* There is good stuff there once you sort the drek out.

I must confess, I've heard more than one cinema-goer giggle when somebody (Biggs, was it?) tells Porkins, "Eject! Eject!"

Not to deflate a humorous image (it is too), but I recall reading somewhere (can't remember where at the moment) that the whole cockpit of the X-wing ejects, not just the pilot. So, while I agree open face helmets in space is a bad choice, they are not a killer if the above is accurate (which I am not sure it is).

Not to deflate a humorous image (it is too), but I recall reading somewhere (can't remember where at the moment) that the whole cockpit of the X-wing ejects, not just the pilot. So, while I agree open face helmets in space is a bad choice, they are not a killer if the above is accurate (which I am not sure it is).

That would have been from WEG based on concept art.

Tie pilot helmets have a couple of hoses coming from the mask that seem to be for breathing.

Just to add fuel to the fire....

In clone wars there's a scene where clone troopers going into a depressurized area attach a similar box to their helmet/chest as TIE pilots, suggesting the box is a rebreather type thing.

Though.... TIE pilots uniforms are never shown all inflated looking, which is what happens to a space suit in vacuum... So it seems likely that TIEs are at least sealed to keep the pilots dexterous enough to operate them...

Tie pilot helmets have a couple of hoses coming from the mask that seem to be for breathing.

Though.... TIE pilots uniforms are never shown all inflated looking, which is what happens to a space suit in vacuum... So it seems likely that TIEs are at least sealed to keep the pilots dexterous enough to operate them...

That's what happens to our fabric-based suits. But it doesn't happen to other designs, such as:

Also, we're dealing with a civilization that has had 25,000+ years of space travel. It is quite possible that cloth looking material might just be a skin suit where the pressure from the material is enough to keep you from bloating up from exposure to the vacuum of space. We've got some experimental materials right now that can be flexible normally, but expose parts of it to a voltage and it stiffens up. Not hard to imagine a suit that is flexible in and around the joints, but stiff elsewhere to keep it tight to the skin. Wouldn't impede movement then.

Not to deflate a humorous image (it is too), but I recall reading somewhere (can't remember where at the moment) that the whole cockpit of the X-wing ejects, not just the pilot. So, while I agree open face helmets in space is a bad choice, they are not a killer if the above is accurate (which I am not sure it is).

That would have been from WEG based on concept art.

That would explain it. I've ran WEG for so long, I don't need the core rules anymore.

Maybe TIE Fighters have always (in real canon) had life support.

What does it matter?

It may sound not like much to you, but to me a TIE fighter with life support is not a TIE fighter anymore.

Keeping the Pilot alive is definitly not on the list a TIE fighter should do, that's solely up to the pilot:

• Go out there, take this ship that's among the fastest and agilest in the galaxy and destroy the empires enemies.
• No shields, just don't get hit, if you manage to get hit in that ship you're useless anyway.
• No complicated targeting computers. Here, a giant window in the front (think about it, that window is huge compared to other ships. and small windows all around you, so you can see everything, no target computers, you do that on your own.
• Life support? You just need to breathe to fly, so here take this helmet.
• Hyperspace? Do you wanna run away? We put you where you're supposed to be.

Succeed and you will return to glory. Die, and we won't care, 'cause that ship cost less than the emperors daily pedicure.

Maybe in one of the next episode we'll see stormtroopers manning a rescure party for their own. Because suddenly the Empire values their equipment and important personnel.

I know I'm reacting strongly. That's what being a fan/geek is partly about

ps: I'm by no means a gun expert, but think about the STEN gun in ww2, biggest advantage: dirt cheap to make. no fancy schmancy stuff. just the bare necessities.

I don't know if you have ever looked at the cockpit of a real fighter with any seriousness before, but the TIE Fighter (and every TIE craft since the Eta-2 Actis) has about the most useless design ever. Yes, you can see a lot of things out the front of your fighter and a little bit out the top... but that's it. Real fighters - from the Fokker Eindecker to the Mitsubishi Zero to the F-22A - have much better visibility than the TIE offers: Not only can you see in front, but you can see out the sides over the wings, and behind you. As do most other fighters in Star Wars. Without sensors, the TIE Fighter's pilot is practically blind.

Still science fiction. To be honest, I read somewhere (think it was one of the old sourcebooks) that the TIE Pilot sees more than other pilots because of the huge window and windows on the back) and I just kinda accepted that. he might not see his sides, but he sees in front and downward, which in space where its more likely than in atmosphere that fighters appear from below should be an advantage I think.

But I'm sure I don't know enough about fighter planes and cockpits for that discussion, so I have to believe you.

Seeing downward is very important in real life, too. It's why the cockpit is almost invariable as far forward on the aircraft as possible (older light aircraft had their cockpits more toward the middle of the aircraft because the engine sat in the front - look at the P-38 Lightning). It's part of why the Soviet Union and United States developed "look down, shoot down" radar guidance systems during the Cold War (to destroy aircraft flying nape-of-the-earth). It's why most helicopters have windows on the bottom of the cabin (gunships forgo those windows in favor of armor). Most aircraft put the pilot on top of the aircraft because: A-That's how gravity works; B-They generally want some protection against ground fire, and; C-Most attacking aircraft are going to (if they can) attack from an altitude greater than that of the fighter.

The ideal cockpit for a combat aircraft would be a transparent sphere with a 360º HUD. Of course, this creates problems with where the rest of the fighter goes....

The Umbaran starfighter is probably one of the best designs in the Star Wars galaxy (from a pilot visibility perspective).

(Excellent visibility, unparalleled by any craft that I am aware of in Star Wars or real life and the entire cockpit appears to function as a HUD. The amount of pertinent information available to the pilot without having to ever take his or her eyes off the enemy and visibility means that the Umbaran starfighter should punch above its class and easily be able to handle starfighters that have better armor, heavier weapons, greater speed, and better maneuverability.)

The Umbaran tech in those episodes was great. Had a really spooky vibe to it and I loved how the clone troopers had to work at it.

I'm thinking that for fighters in the near future, assuming they're not entirely replaced by drones which seems likely, full VR will be the way they go. A transparent cockpit is anachronistic when you can wear your VR goggles and have near 360° field of view both above and below. Though I imagine they'd keep the transparent shield as fallback in the event of problems.

Blast from the past here,

but remember: In Star Wars defenses are much more effective than offences, a role reversal similar to the 15th century in real life. Like knights in full plate armor the starfighters and starships of this ear are not susceptible to being felled by a single shot, even in the case of TIEs often the hull survives a full-on blast with no shielding.

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/sci/space-suit-design-straight-scifi.html

It seems technology is changing.

Personally i feel the star wars universe has spent more time developing spacefaring technology over the millenia rather than say wifi or internet or other tech.

It seems technology is changing.

Personally i feel the star wars universe has spent more time developing spacefaring technology over the millenia rather than say wifi or internet or other tech.

Or, in 25,000 years of development, they've regressed as it makes for a more secure and stable system. Same thing with their targeting systems and other advances. The Mark I Eyeball still hasn't been beaten by all the various sensor/countermeasures that have been worked up given that Cloaking Systems aren't really available.

Just look at what has happened with the various government organizations being attached to the public internet. Foreign governments have been able to hack into other places and get access to data that shouldn't have been theirs... So, the militaries take themselves off the public networks, then other government bodies, and you then end up with isolated pocket networks... then intelligent machines are made and even those aren't as secure as a compromise at one base would let someone attack other bases...

Canon is defined by Lucas' (and soon to be Walt's) on-screen works. Episodes I-VI, Clone Wars, and Rebels are G-Canon. Finito. The EU is, and always has been, strictly apocryphal. Take what you like, leave what you don't, but know its not set in stone. Is there a reference in G-Canon to TIE Fighters not having life-support? If not, then whether they do or don't have life support remains speculation. Talented speculation. Published speculation. But, still, speculation. However, the presence of life support in the Rebels TIE is being inferred. It could just as easily not have life support. It could just be the air in the cockpit when it was sealed. Facts not in evidence.

I have never gotten this canon/zero sum argument. Maybe TIEs have it both ways? There are practical reasons to not have air in the cockpit in combat for instance fire suppression. There are practical reasons to have air in the cockpit at times, like ease of ferrying space craft. Unless someone feels there is some commandment that thou shalt always fly a TIE this way....

I have never gotten this canon/zero sum argument. Maybe TIEs have it both ways? There are practical reasons to not have air in the cockpit in combat for instance fire suppression. There are practical reasons to have air in the cockpit at times, like ease of ferrying space craft. Unless someone feels there is some commandment that thou shalt always fly a TIE this way....

To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing in canon that says whether TIE Fighters have life support or not.

And, even then, we would have to evaluate whether we have an omniscient, non-biased source providing the information.

For instance, what Obi-Wan tells us may only be true from a certain point of view...

Well they clearly do have it, that we know from Rebels, so the only question is just because TIE pilots had helmets on, that does not mean definitively they did not.

Well they clearly do have it, that we know from Rebels, so the only question is just because TIE pilots had helmets on, that does not mean definitively they did not.

Do we know that?

I do not recall any references to life support or displays labeled as such.

All we know from the scene in Rebels is that there was air in the cockpit.

That could be air from when the hatch was sealed or be supplemented by life-support.

What we have are inferences and assumptions. No definitive facts are in evidence.

The helmets? Those could be primary or back-up life support systems.

Its a question of interpretation - and sans definitive facts, that is wholly subjective.

Good god this thread needs to die.

Good god this thread needs to die.

This is not an answer to my question.

You could, of course, concede the point.

Then the thread would die.

I always assumed that a Tie Fighter was airtight until it had a hull breach, by that point having complete separate support is completely advantageous. It also allows the pilot to survive in a very small ship for extended periods of time without investing in ship wide life-support systems when they have their life support on a much more personal system. This saves costs in manufacturing a ship wide life support system and allows the empire to remain a streamlined engine of war.

This is the both ways answer; there is air in the cabin, but probably not enough for prolonged military exercises thus most pilots are seen wearing space suits as standard as both safety and efficiency feature.

The alternative answer is that Rebels is a cartooon and ultimately it will cater to it's primary audience, the children that they want to draw into star wars, they don't really mind the small details and are more about making entertaining viewing. I always took a very simplistic view on canon; I don't really care as long as it's entertaining.

Yah, I agree. In fact some old canon can go away, if "midichlorian" isn't uttered in the next movies, or even again, I will sob happily.

Frankly I hope midichlorian is uttered over and over again just so I can collect more fanboy tears.

Did you know that if you say "Midichlorians" three times into a mirror when you're alone, George Lucas appears and hugs you.

A friend of my cousin tried it, and it happened.

Don't do it! He comes back later and edits the hug into something else!