finally came around to watching rebels...and I noticed the standard tie fighter suddenly got lifesupport systems.

The reasons this pisses me off is because that was th eonly thing tie's never had. there were variants with R-droids (i think) shields and vaders pimped out tie got a hyperdrive, but afaik no tie-variant had life support.

Now the basic tie got life support, simply to make the plot of a few episodes unnessecarily simpler.

The same patchwork-bull is starting again, because a few writers thought nothing off it.

Also tie Fighters are now equipped with TARDIS technology, because it fits three people now, comfortably - two are standing, the third is piloting - while doing evasive maneuvers.

/rant

sorry, I just had to get that out of my system.

But what do you think, does the tie now officialy suddenly feature neato life support or was the one in the last episode of season 1 non regulation conform?

also a-wings are there a bit early, but i think that was already mentioned in one thread.

They weren't in the TIE for that long, so the air in the ship could have lasted the ten minutes (give or take?) that they were flying until the fighter docked with the transport. And the characters reference being cramped several times, so they were clearly not comfortable.

As for the A-Wings, welcome to the new canon. They're now a Kuat Systems Engineering model. I think the show's thinkers, like myself, thought A-Wings were more visually appropriate for "small ragtag resistance" than X-Wings.

I always pictured - and I think I read it somewhere - TIE fighters as basically an astronaut sitting on a set of twin ion engines with guns attached to it, because in the empires mentality they are needed to be as cheap as possible.

Life support encompasses more than just air: Heating (for it is cold in outer space) and artificial gravity (why we see most pilots being strapped in) for example. Heating could theoretically be argued away since they weren't in that ship for long, gravity not.

I don't really mind the A-wings myself, just the old story of something you loved for a long time now suddenly changing...I am really, sincerely scared of the new movies, because I have (unwillingly) impossibly high expectations.

Maybe TIE Fighters have always (in real canon) had life support.

What does it matter?

Yah, I agree. In fact some old canon can go away, if "midichlorian" isn't uttered in the next movies, or even again, I will sob happily.

Yah, I agree. In fact some old canon can go away, if "midichlorian" isn't uttered in the next movies, or even again, I will sob happily.

But... how will you know when to sob?

Heat isn't going to be lost very quickly in a vacuum, and gravity isn't a reason to strap in (or not strap in). But if you need to complain, remember that TIE fighters have traditionally lacked landing capability too.

Yah, I agree. In fact some old canon can go away, if "midichlorian" isn't uttered in the next movies, or even again, I will sob happily.

But... how will you know when to sob?

The Force will be my guide...

Maybe TIE Fighters have always (in real canon) had life support.

What does it matter?

It may sound not like much to you, but to me a TIE fighter with life support is not a TIE fighter anymore.

Keeping the Pilot alive is definitly not on the list a TIE fighter should do, that's solely up to the pilot:

• Go out there, take this ship that's among the fastest and agilest in the galaxy and destroy the empires enemies.
• No shields, just don't get hit, if you manage to get hit in that ship you're useless anyway.
• No complicated targeting computers. Here, a giant window in the front (think about it, that window is huge compared to other ships. and small windows all around you, so you can see everything, no target computers, you do that on your own.
• Life support? You just need to breathe to fly, so here take this helmet.
• Hyperspace? Do you wanna run away? We put you where you're supposed to be.

Succeed and you will return to glory. Die, and we won't care, 'cause that ship cost less than the emperors daily pedicure.

Maybe in one of the next episode we'll see stormtroopers manning a rescure party for their own. Because suddenly the Empire values their equipment and important personnel.

I know I'm reacting strongly. That's what being a fan/geek is partly about

ps: I'm by no means a gun expert, but think about the STEN gun in ww2, biggest advantage: dirt cheap to make. no fancy schmancy stuff. just the bare necessities.

I'm not sure we ever had any official canon example of a TIE not having life support, so I don't see how canon can be undone if canon was never established in the first place.

Depends on what you see as canon. Essential Atlas specifically states no life support, as did all technical books in the past.

If you define it just as clone wars and ep 1-6 (ed: and rebels), I'm not sure if Boba/Jango's ship even has a name for example - unless they actually DO mention it in clone wars and I forgot.

Canon was always defined by Lucas as the movies and the stuff he made. Disney flushed the EU story, so canon is set by the people who own the IP. What people choose to like is up to them but the people who make the content determine canon.

Yah, I agree. In fact some old canon can go away, if "midichlorian" isn't uttered in the next movies, or even again, I will sob happily.

But... how will you know when to sob?

Just start sobbing and keep it up, until such a time as it is deemed inappropriate. That's how I do it, anyway.

Depends on what you see as canon. Essential Atlas specifically states no life support, as did all technical books in the past.

If you define it just as clone wars and ep 1-6 (ed: and rebels), I'm not sure if Boba/Jango's ship even has a name for example - unless they actually DO mention it in clone wars and I forgot.

Canon now explicitly ignores all of the old EU, including the Atlas and Technical books.

It's just Ep 1-6, the new books and comics, Clone Wars and Rebels. Those now show TIE Fighters as having life support, so that's what they have in Canon.

To be fair, even in Legends (what the old EU is now called), it was conflicted on whether TIE Fighters had life support - some books said they did, others didn't.

Life support encompasses more than just air: Heating (for it is cold in outer space) and artificial gravity (why we see most pilots being strapped in) for example. Heating could theoretically be argued away since they weren't in that ship for long, gravity not.

That is a misconception. It varies depending on if you are near a star, which most Star Wars scenes tend to take place near and if you're in line of sight of said star (and how far out you are from it). For example, our moon, which has no atmosphere, varies from -300F when facing away from the sun to 225F when facing the sun. That's a 500F swing from low to high. So the suit would need to be able to cool as well as heat.

Depends on what you see as canon. Essential Atlas specifically states no life support, as did all technical books in the past.

If you define it just as clone wars and ep 1-6 (ed: and rebels), I'm not sure if Boba/Jango's ship even has a name for example - unless they actually DO mention it in clone wars and I forgot.

The owner of the IP is the one that sets what is canon. Whether you follow it or accept it is up to you. So, what Disney says is canon, is canon. What you say, is just your idea of it all.

Maybe TIE Fighters have always (in real canon) had life support.

What does it matter?

It may sound not like much to you, but to me a TIE fighter with life support is not a TIE fighter anymore.

Keeping the Pilot alive is definitly not on the list a TIE fighter should do, that's solely up to the pilot:

• Go out there, take this ship that's among the fastest and agilest in the galaxy and destroy the empires enemies.
• No shields, just don't get hit, if you manage to get hit in that ship you're useless anyway.
• No complicated targeting computers. Here, a giant window in the front (think about it, that window is huge compared to other ships. and small windows all around you, so you can see everything, no target computers, you do that on your own.
• Life support? You just need to breathe to fly, so here take this helmet.
• Hyperspace? Do you wanna run away? We put you where you're supposed to be.

Succeed and you will return to glory. Die, and we won't care, 'cause that ship cost less than the emperors daily pedicure.

Maybe in one of the next episode we'll see stormtroopers manning a rescure party for their own. Because suddenly the Empire values their equipment and important personnel.

I know I'm reacting strongly. That's what being a fan/geek is partly about

ps: I'm by no means a gun expert, but think about the STEN gun in ww2, biggest advantage: dirt cheap to make. no fancy schmancy stuff. just the bare necessities.

I don't know if you have ever looked at the cockpit of a real fighter with any seriousness before, but the TIE Fighter (and every TIE craft since the Eta-2 Actis) has about the most useless design ever. Yes, you can see a lot of things out the front of your fighter and a little bit out the top... but that's it. Real fighters - from the Fokker Eindecker to the Mitsubishi Zero to the F-22A - have much better visibility than the TIE offers: Not only can you see in front, but you can see out the sides over the wings, and behind you. As do most other fighters in Star Wars. Without sensors, the TIE Fighter's pilot is practically blind.

If my players wanted to try and cram three people into a TIE (one of whom you can argue is silhouette 0 (ezra), I'd probably give them a setback dice for each additional passenger, up to two passengers. But the fact that they throw off the balance and get in the way would cause severe piloting issues. I'd also feel justified using a lot of Force points to upgrade certain manuevers. Because of the cramped conditions, gravity is unlikely to matter, since they can brace themselves with hands. When it comes to life support, I'd give them just what air is inside the craft, so not very long. And I might make every hit they take a critical hit, just because if life support fails or theres a hull breach, then they are all really in trouble. I might also say that any despairs or multiple threats can constitute tiny leaks. It'd be high risk to fly in space, but still, it'd be possible.

Life support encompasses more than just air: Heating (for it is cold in outer space) and artificial gravity (why we see most pilots being strapped in) for example. Heating could theoretically be argued away since they weren't in that ship for long, gravity not.

That is a misconception. It varies depending on if you are near a star, which most Star Wars scenes tend to take place near and if you're in line of sight of said star (and how far out you are from it). For example, our moon, which has no atmosphere, varies from -300F when facing away from the sun to 225F when facing the sun. That's a 500F swing from low to high. So the suit would need to be able to cool as well as heat.

Hooray for Space Opera! Don't have to worry about those pesky astro-physical details.

Yah, I agree. In fact some old canon can go away, if "midichlorian" isn't uttered in the next movies, or even again, I will sob happily.

Frankly I hope midichlorian is uttered over and over again just so I can collect more fanboy tears.

Maybe worth noting that all of the times that the crew were piloting stolen Tie-fighters, it was within atmosphere at low altitude. The one time a stolen Tie is used in Space to infiltrate a Star Destroyer and rescue Kanan, it is flown remotely by Chopper with no crew aboard.

I might have missed an instance where it is flown in Space by one of the rebels without protection, if so please politely remind me. But all that I can remember are these.

Heating (for it is cold in outer space) and artificial gravity (why we see most pilots being strapped in) for example. Heating could theoretically be argued away since they weren't in that ship for long, gravity not.

Well yes and no. Vacuum is a superb insulator (the best in fact), which is why you have such things as Vacuum Flasks to keep your soup warm when you go camping.

There are three ways you lose heat. Conduction, Convection and Radiation. Conduction is when you are in contact with something and your heat is transferred away from you, e.g. you place your hand on a cold piece of metal and your hand becomes colder. Convection is where heat is carried away from you by something passing over you. A cool wind blows across your face and the heat energy is carried away from your skin by the air molecules. See also the radiator on a car. Convection and Conduction are essentially the same thing, in Physics terms. Radiative heat loss is when you give off electromagnetic radiation, e.g. light. Your body gives off infra-red all the time, a lightbulb glows, cooling motes of carbon give off light as they cool (flames).

Of these three methods, only radiative works in a pure vacuum. Quite commonly, the problem with a space suit or ship is not keeping warm, it's how to dissipate all the heat you're generating. If you're in a tin can in Space then all your body heat, the heat from the engines, everything, is just going to accumulate with no way to get rid of it. That's a big problem.

And that problem rapidly becomes deadly if you're being hit by unfiltered light from a nearby star. There are no cooling breezes in Space. Of course eventually your space ship will get hot enough that it will start glowing and radiating out energy itself, but you'll be a roast astronaut by that point.

Space is cold, logically as cold as it gets in some senses, but it also is one mighty overcoat. You're more likely to cook than to freeze, if your systems break down in Space.

Yah, I agree. In fact some old canon can go away, if "midichlorian" isn't uttered in the next movies, or even again, I will sob happily.

Frankly I hope midichlorian is uttered over and over again just so I can collect more fanboy tears.

Did you know that if you say "Midichlorians" three times into a mirror when you're alone, George Lucas appears and hugs you.

A friend of my cousin tried it, and it happened.

I think assuming the ties have life support now is jumping to conclusions. The crew was looking for a quick escape from a crashing ship, the TIE fighter was the chosen option. Likely of Chopper didn't come back, the rebels (assuming they avoided all enemies) would have suffocated.

The crew knew that they had a ship they could dock with. The TIE fighters probably have a seal to keep pressure in/atmosphere otherwise there could be issues when going from the hangar to space. They likely have no life support still, so no more breathable air in the ship.

Now that air would get pretty thin and tank very quickly, remember Zeb smells. But as mentioned they had an escape ship to dock with my an issue.

We need less jumping to conclusions and more actually thinking things through.