BKL,

My offer for you to provide evidence to support your position is still open.

I gave you three diffrent sources for you too look up. Look them up. Legends is secondary canon even if fine details conflict with primary canon the overall event is still canon. Take in mind legendsa lso exist inuniverse, these stories didnt come about without some real actions that infulanced them.

It's not my job to find your evidence.

Post your evidence.

You will look it up, I told you the names of the articals. If you want to pretend they dont exist we have nothing too talk about. The way your going about this canonm atter is dishonest, too find the truth in anything is not an easy process, you must do "reserch." I never ask people for refrences during a fight... I always reserch the subject myself. In this case I made it easy for you, I told you what to plug into a search engine too find the information. If you go out of your way too not look up this information the only thing you prove is that you dont like legends and your looking for anyway too justify proclaiming it non-canon.

BKL,

My offer for you to provide evidence to support your position is still open.

I gave you three diffrent sources for you too look up. Look them up. Legends is secondary canon even if fine details conflict with primary canon the overall event is still canon. Take in mind legendsa lso exist inuniverse, these stories didnt come about without some real actions that infulanced them.

It's not my job to find your evidence.

Post your evidence.

You will look it up, I told you the names of the articals. If you want to pretend they dont exist we have nothing too talk about. The way your going about this canonm atter is dishonest, too find the truth in anything is not an easy process, you must do "reserch." I never ask people for refrences during a fight... I always reserch the subject myself. In this case I made it easy for you, I told you what to plug into a search engine too find the information. If you go out of your way too not look up this information the only thing you prove is that you dont like legends and your looking for anyway too justify proclaiming it non-canon.

If you have facts, post links.

Others and I have done so for you. You have yet to post anything that contradicts what we have posted.

If you believe that it is the duty of others to research your position for you, then you truly do not understand the basics of rhetoric and debate.

Finally, do not presume to think that you know what I think or what I believe.

This thread reminds me why Star Wars fans sometimes have "that" reputation...

Are there some awesome stories from the EU I'd love to see get a "nod of canonicity"? Sure. But for each of those moments there's also, like, a dozen Luuke Skywalkers, Palpatine clones, Yuuzhan Vong everythings, Boba Fett becoming Mandalore cause hey a ruthless bounty hunter motivated by credits totally wants to become the noble leader of a group of honorable warriors, Chewies getting a moon dropped on their heads, C-3PXs...

All of that can burn now. Or, at the least, be done less stupidly if a future writer decides to borrow from it.

This thread reminds me why Star Wars fans sometimes have "that" reputation...

Are there some awesome stories from the EU I'd love to see get a "nod of canonicity"? Sure. But for each of those moments there's also, like, a dozen Luuke Skywalkers, Palpatine clones.

All of that can burn now. Or, at the least, be done less stupidly if a future writer decides to borrow from it.

Fixed the list

I liked Dark Empire...

This thread reminds me why Star Wars fans sometimes have "that" reputation...

Are there some awesome stories from the EU I'd love to see get a "nod of canonicity"? Sure. But for each of those moments there's also, like, a dozen Luuke Skywalkers, Palpatine clones, Yuuzhan Vong everythings, Boba Fett becoming Mandalore cause hey a ruthless bounty hunter motivated by credits totally wants to become the noble leader of a group of honorable warriors, Chewies getting a moon dropped on their heads, C-3PXs...

All of that can burn now. Or, at the least, be done less stupidly if a future writer decides to borrow from it.

Dave Filoini really screwed up mandalore in the clone wars. Hopefully he'll fix it in Rebels.

Boba is supposed to be this Honorable warrior guy, in fact in the old EU there was a story arc about how he spent along time tracking down solo telling him he didn't hold a grudge against him, that it was just a job and he was bound by his honor as a warrior to uphold his end of the bargain. Boba's only real hate was against the Jedi.

I don't think Filoni was behind the Mandalore stuff. That I think was more of George's mandates.

On the other, I don't think Traviss handled the Mandalorians well either.

This thread reminds me why Star Wars fans sometimes have "that" reputation...

Are there some awesome stories from the EU I'd love to see get a "nod of canonicity"? Sure. But for each of those moments there's also, like, a dozen Luuke Skywalkers, Palpatine clones, Yuuzhan Vong everythings, Boba Fett becoming Mandalore cause hey a ruthless bounty hunter motivated by credits totally wants to become the noble leader of a group of honorable warriors, Chewies getting a moon dropped on their heads, C-3PXs...

All of that can burn now. Or, at the least, be done less stupidly if a future writer decides to borrow from it.

Dave Filoini really screwed up mandalore in the clone wars. Hopefully he'll fix it in Rebels.

Boba is supposed to be this Honorable warrior guy, in fact in the old EU there was a story arc about how he spent along time tracking down solo telling him he didn't hold a grudge against him, that it was just a job and he was bound by his honor as a warrior to uphold his end of the bargain. Boba's only real hate was against the Jedi.

That is to say, Traviss turned him into an avatar of her own opinions.

The canonical Boba Fett's a mercenary. He gets the job done and he gets paid. He wears Mandalorian armour because his father did, not because of any warrior code he signed up to.

TCW saved the Mandalorians. Its approach is far more believable and compelling than technicolour Mary Sues in indestructiblium super-starfighters that make the original TIE defender in all its OP glory whimper and cower.

KotOR II was the best handling of the Mandalorians, though?

Also the Bes'uliik is a neat concept if it was toned down a tad.

People exaggerate the Bes'uliik badly IMO. The only things special about it are its armor and its hyperdrive. It actually has fewer weapons then the TIE Defender or other fighter designs from its era.

XJs have 4 Lasers and 3 Torp tubes whereas a Bes'uliik has 4 Blasters and 2 weapon hardpoints while the Owool's have 4 Lasers, 2 Ion Cannons, and an unknown number of weapon hard points. A TIE Defender has 4 Laser, 2 Ion Cannons, and 2 multipurpose ordinance launchers.

Edit: and because the Bes'uliik never appeared in the RPG nor received a full set of stats elsewhere we can't do a full detailed comparison of it and other fighters from its era.

This thread reminds me why Star Wars fans sometimes have "that" reputation...

Are there some awesome stories from the EU I'd love to see get a "nod of canonicity"? Sure. But for each of those moments there's also, like, a dozen Luuke Skywalkers, Palpatine clones, Yuuzhan Vong everythings, Boba Fett becoming Mandalore cause hey a ruthless bounty hunter motivated by credits totally wants to become the noble leader of a group of honorable warriors, Chewies getting a moon dropped on their heads, C-3PXs...

All of that can burn now. Or, at the least, be done less stupidly if a future writer decides to borrow from it.

Dave Filoini really screwed up mandalore in the clone wars. Hopefully he'll fix it in Rebels.

Boba is supposed to be this Honorable warrior guy, in fact in the old EU there was a story arc about how he spent along time tracking down solo telling him he didn't hold a grudge against him, that it was just a job and he was bound by his honor as a warrior to uphold his end of the bargain. Boba's only real hate was against the Jedi.

I am glad that interpretation of the mandos is gone and dead. Fett is a merciless thug for hire devoid of nobility or honor. You don't become a contract killer and e a cool headed person too.

Post imperial japan is a much more fitting style of culture for star wars than just straight up klingon wannabees.

KotOR II was the best handling of the Mandalorians, though?

Also the Bes'uliik is a neat concept if it was toned down a tad.

KoTOR and KoTOR II aren't retconned by TCW, and in many ways are more consistent with it than Traviss's kaelidoscope warriors.

Boba is supposed to be this Honorable warrior guy, in fact in the old EU there was a story arc about how he spent along time tracking down solo telling him he didn't hold a grudge against him, that it was just a job and he was bound by his honor as a warrior to uphold his end of the bargain. Boba's only real hate was against the Jedi.

I'd take Bounty Hunter Wars' version of Fett over that any day.

This thread reminds me why Star Wars fans sometimes have "that" reputation...

Are there some awesome stories from the EU I'd love to see get a "nod of canonicity"? Sure. But for each of those moments there's also, like, a dozen Luuke Skywalkers, Palpatine clones, Yuuzhan Vong everythings, Boba Fett becoming Mandalore cause hey a ruthless bounty hunter motivated by credits totally wants to become the noble leader of a group of honorable warriors, Chewies getting a moon dropped on their heads, C-3PXs...

All of that can burn now. Or, at the least, be done less stupidly if a future writer decides to borrow from it.

Dave Filoini really screwed up mandalore in the clone wars. Hopefully he'll fix it in Rebels.

Boba is supposed to be this Honorable warrior guy, in fact in the old EU there was a story arc about how he spent along time tracking down solo telling him he didn't hold a grudge against him, that it was just a job and he was bound by his honor as a warrior to uphold his end of the bargain. Boba's only real hate was against the Jedi.

That is to say, Traviss turned him into an avatar of her own opinions.

The canonical Boba Fett's a mercenary. He gets the job done and he gets paid. He wears Mandalorian armour because his father did, not because of any warrior code he signed up to.

TCW saved the Mandalorians. Its approach is far more believable and compelling than technicolour Mary Sues in indestructiblium super-starfighters that make the original TIE defender in all its OP glory whimper and cower.

This. Traviss started out, doing good for The Mandalorians.

Then it got bad. Really bad. Really super awful terrible bad. Terribad, even.

Just... Like. Because of that, I don't mind the interesting take on Mandalorians TCW provided. Yeah it's... Weird. Contradictory, even. But there's some clever things. Like that guy who discounts Jango as Mandalorian? Lots of people hear the words, not the tone- Jango was indeed Mandalorian, but that guy wouldn't accept it as it didn't fit into his domed utopia ideal. It was a stain.

You could hear that in his voice and I loved it.

____________________________________

Another reason TCW Mandalorians are a good thing, by the way...

The Death Watch. The Death Watch was first introduced to me here, on The Forest Moon of Endor.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090104004524/starwars/images/e/e1/DeathWatchBunker.jpg

An unassuming, tiny little bunker... Then you go deep inside, if you get past the first wave of Battle Droids. You will likely visit many times, perhaps even, all failures... Because The Death Watch, is truly terrifying.

So when I heard that they'd return in The Clone Wars, I was excited, but twinge of fear ran through me, remembering that bunker. This was the perfect feeling to have, too.

The Death Watch was an extremist group. Descendants of the true, the proud Mandalorian Warriors, disgusted by this concept of being... Peaceful when throughout the entirety of their history, they'd been defined by their warlike, conquering ways. Throughout the entire galaxy, the mere mention of "Manda-" would get you shushed, ostracized.

Mandalorian was an unutterable word. It always would be. It instilled fear in the hearts if countless people- just as it should. Entire worlds burned and pillaged, for the sake of it. To prove they were superior.

And even through this era of "Peace", it made its impact. Pre briefly sat as Mandalore. This conflicted redefined, and reshattered Mandalore. The evidence is there.

When somebody thinks Mandalorian...

They think this... And you can thank people like The Death Watch for that. The Clone Wars' version did not make Mandalorians look weaker. No.

No, it made them stronger. Infinitely. That The Mandalorians could both defeat, and not defeat, themselves. It's impressive, and a testament to the old ways. I've probably mentioned or spoke at length about how The Clone Army is in and of itself, a Mandalorian conquest of The Republic (and it is).

So never think TCW ruined Mandalorians. It made them stronger than any other lore in that time period ever has.

I miss that brief period of time in the early 80s when no one knew anything other than Boba Fett was cool, and that he wore mandelorian armor. Was he mandelorian? Who were those warriors, and why did the Jedi have to defeat them? Was boba human, a clone, a robot, a cyborg, an alien? (Remember, we didn't even know if Obi-wan was a clone, or that Jabba was gonna be a big fat slug instead of an awesome badass. All characters were in flux, but a lot of the potential was wasted on many). We just didn't know. Boba Fett could have been a woman for all we knew. Imagine the utter disappointment when Fett fell into the sarlac without his origin ever being revealed or even being unmasked.

Of course that wasn't the only indignity forced on Boba... Now he has to sound just like every clone trooper from he prequels, despite not having the kiwi accent as a kid and wearing a voice distorting helmet as an adult. And the Special Edition nonsense in RotJ.

Honestly, I have absolutely no problem with Mandalorians being a completely different society in Clone Wars than they are in Old Republic. The two eras are thousands of years apart. None of our current societies on Earth even existed that long ago. That Mandalorians could go from being Klingons to High Elves in that amount of time doesn't bother me at all.

As far as Fett is concerned. My favorite portrayals of him are when he's simply...professional. The honorable warrior trope doesn't really fit him. But neither does the hired thug trope.

The stories that portray him as just the best at what he does, who just cares about completing the job and being paid for it, with no personal interest in the matter are the ones I enjoy the most. Where he's not interested in personal vendettas, or galactic politics, and he's only honorable to the point where if he makes an agreement, he keeps it. Because his reputation is important for his work.