Just want to know if I can play this Rumor card during the shopping step of the final Act 1 Campaign Phase ( the one after the Interlude.) I know that card would probably mess that up, but I am just checking to see if it's a legit play.

What does the card say is it an Act 1 Quest?

There was a raging debate about this exact usage on BGG:

Unknown Treasures Card - Misunderstanding .

This issue also came up within this forum:

Transition from Interlude to Act II

The text of the card specifies the following:

"Play this card at the start of the Shopping step of any Campaign phase:

As you step into the familiar shop, you are welcomed by an unfamiliar sense of dread and discomfort. You scan the darkened room for any sign of the shopkeeper.

"Well, hello!" comes a strange voice from behind the counter, a cloaked figure emerges from the shadows. "How can I help you?"

Deal the Shop Item cards face down during this Shopping step. Each hero tests (Knowledge). Each hero that passes may flip over 1 random face down Shop Item card.

Heroes may choose to purchase any of the Shop Item cards dealt. Each face down Shop Item card costs 100 gold during Act I and 175 gold during Act II."

Most everyone agrees that the phrase " start of the Shopping step " is critical. The transition from Act I to Act II does not include a "Shopping step", but does allow the heroes to go through the whole Act I deck and purchase what they will.

Unfortunately, FFG's Justin also made a ruling in a completely different thread (having nothing to do with this issue) that clarified that the Interlude (and its aftermath) counts as an Act I shopping step. My thoughts on this was that he was trying to make it clear that you cannot shop from the Act II deck until you have completed at least one Act II quest (which is the rules). Some have also taken it to mean, however, that it constitutes an actual Shopping Step.

I see no mention of any formal conclusion to the argument, nor any official ruling on this specific topic. My suggestion would be to submit the question to FFG.

This is not an official answer. You cannot use "Unknown Treasures" during the phase where heroes browse the Act 1 shop after the Interlude. It's a ridiculous use of that card, and would horribly cripple the entire point of that shop step. The use of that card at that specific point in the campaign is a blatant abuse of the rules, even if RAW it's allowable.

This is not an official answer. You cannot use "Unknown Treasures" during the phase where heroes browse the Act 1 shop after the Interlude. It's a ridiculous use of that card, and would horribly cripple the entire point of that shop step.

I absolutely agree 100%. There is no way that I would ever allow its use in this manner in my games, and I am the OL.

Oh i see where the problem is. I have actually never even noticed this rule before. I always played it like a regular Act 1 Campaign phase. Wow 2 new things I discovered this week.

Hero players now have a chance to visit the shop and purchase any Act I Shop Item cards. Deal out all remaining Act I Shop Item cards faceup. The hero players may purchase any number of Act I Shop Item cards they are able to afford.

I would tend to lean towards no. Because they can purchase any or all of the ACT 1 shop item cards.

It depends how you play it I guess. If you go by that, then the heroes do not get a campaign phase at all after the Interlude.

But you have to have a campaign phase. So, maybe you get an Act 2 campaign phase after the Transition part?

SO they will have a chance to buy all Act 1 cards. But then you run the normal Campaign phase with Act II cards. SO then you could play it.

Wow, i'll have to look into this one farther.

This is not an official answer. You cannot use "Unknown Treasures" during the phase where heroes browse the Act 1 shop after the Interlude. It's a ridiculous use of that card, and would horribly cripple the entire point of that shop step. The use of that card at that specific point in the campaign is a blatant abuse of the rules, even if RAW it's allowable.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree on that. Fact is, I think it would be downright wrong to play it then. That doesn't stop me from wondering if it is a legit play.

There is a campaign phase after the interlude. How do you explain the Spend Experience phase and the Travel Phase that comes after the shopping step? I'm assuming that the Shopping Phase during this particular campaign phase is the special phase talked about in the rulebook. If that's the case, then it is a Shopping Phase and totally a legal move to play Unknown Treasures. In this case, players should House rule it.

From one of the "offical" answers in one of those forums.

It is not an actual shopping step and so it does not apply

This is what makes me think there is an actual shopping step still with Act II cards. Especially since you change the decks out IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE INTERLUDE.

This is where you would get to play that rumour card.

There is no mention of skipping the shopping step. Of course there is no mention of actually doing the campaign phase either...

KAGE13 ...

FFG has already ruled OFFICIALLY that there is NO shopping phase for Act II shop items until you have completed at least one Act II quest.

So that means there is no shopping phase at all after the Interlude, and therefore you cannot play that card.

So basically- Interlude->Switch out ACT1 cards for ACT2 Cards->Special Shopping Phase of all ACT1 Cards->Spend Experience Step->Choose ActIIQuest->Travel Step. Correct?

Hence ... the raging debate.

As I said before, I think Omnislash024 should submit this thread as an official question. It would just end all of the bickering and re-interpretations of what a "shopping step/phase" actually is ...

Some time ago, I asked about the explicit order of things to be done after the interlude. Nathan cleared it up very nicely:

After the Interlude, the following should happen.

The players receive their gold from the Search cards and rewards from the interlude.

Follow the three steps under “Act II” on page 22 of the rulebook. During step 2, the heroes can purchase any cards they want from the Act I Shop deck.

Then, continue the campaign step. The heroes have already received their gold and shopped, so you can skip step 1, 3, and 5.

Sorry to say, but Nathan's explanation didn't really clear up anything. Basically he said to refer to the rulebook. His exact wording also is "can" but that doesn't mean you have to.

Therefore to quote the rulebook verbatim as suggested:

After completing the Interlude, the campaign transitions to Act II. From now on, players choose quests from among the Act II options and prepare themselves for the Finale. Immediately after completing the Interlude, follow these steps: 1. Return the Act I Monster and Lieutenant cards to the box and retrieve the Act II Monster and Lieutenant cards. From now on, all monsters and lieutenants use their Act II characteristics. 2. Hero players now have a chance to visit the shop and purchase any Act I Shop Item cards. Deal out all remaining Act I Shop Item cards faceup. The hero players may purchase any number of Act I Shop Item cards they are able to afford. 3. Return all unpurchased Act I Shop Item cards to the game box and retrieve the Act II Shop Item cards. From now on, use the Act II Shop Item cards. Act I Shop Item cards currently in possession of the heroes are unaffected. Any Act I Shop Item card sold by the heroes during Act II is returned to the box. After completing three Act II quests, it is time for the Finale. Players resolve one Campaign phase as normal and then the heroes travel to the Finale quest to determine the ultimate winner of the campaign!

So if we are to go by the exact way the rulebook suggests, then that means the heroes shop out the ACT I deck before the Campaign Phase even begins. And when it begins, the ACTII shop cards are already in play. This suggests that:

-No, you can't use the Unknown Treasures card When shopping the whole ACT1 Deck because it it not an actual Shopping phase.

-You don't even get the rewards from the Interlude Quest until after you Shop the ACT1 deck.

-After you shop, the Campaign Phase starts. Since the ACTII Shopping Deck is now in effect, you can now buy items from it.

This is at least my literal interpretation of what goes on. I might be wrong, or Fantasy Flight doesn't want that to be the case.

EDIT: Actually, they don't even say when the Campaign Phase starts after the Interlude, So I suppose it's up to interpretation.

The campaign phase starts as soon as the victory conditionas are met- thats why the first steps in the campaign phase are to receive quest rewards, search gold, and clean up the map.

If you follow the steps Nathan laid out, you get through the post interlude with zero ambiguity:

Get rewards, deal out the whole act 1 deck, change the cards, and then do a normal campaign phase as laid out in the book minus the steps you have already done. That is, no additional shopping, you've already done that. I can write out each step in order if you would prefer.

Indeed, he did say "can skip." In this context, I never interpreted that as anything other than an informal way to say "do skip." As in an explanation rather than a directive, "X has already occurred, so Y can be skipped" = "Y can be skipped because X has already occurred."

EDIT: Outline instructions for the campaign phase after the interlude. "Cleanup" could probably occur before step 3 if you wanted it to it doesn't affect anything. Steps 1,2, and 6-10 work exactly like they would after any quest as described in the rulebook.

1. Receive gold from Search Cards

2. Receive Rewards

3. Change Monster Card Act: Return the Act I Monster and Lieutenant cards to the box and retrieve the Act II Monster and Lieutenant cards. From now on, all monsters and lieutenants use their Act II characteristics.

4. Browse entire Act 1 Shop: Hero players now have a chance to visit the shop and purchase any Act I Shop Item cards. Deal out all remaining Act I Shop Item cards faceup. The hero players may purchase any number of Act I Shop Item cards they are able to afford.

5. Change Shop Deck Act: Return all unpurchased Act I Shop Item cards to the game box and retrieve the Act II Shop Item cards. From now on, use the Act II Shop Item cards. Act I Shop Item cards currently in possession of the heroes are unaffected. Any Act I Shop Item card sold by the heroes during Act II is returned to the box.

6. Cleanup

7. Spend Experience Points

8. Choose Next Quest

9. Set up next quest

10. Travel: Travel to the next quest, then start the next quest.

-After you shop, the Campaign Phase starts. Since the ACTII Shopping Deck is now in effect, you can now buy items from it.

I just want to make clear that in a normal campaign there is NO shopping step with act 2 items between the interlude and the first act 2 quest .

There is only 'buy any item from the act 1 deck' step, which in my opinion is not a shopping step.

The only time there is a shopping step with act 2 items after the interlude is when you are playing a mini campaign, and you can't use rumor cards there.

We've looked this up when working on my campaign tracker. I will look up where we found the official answer..

edit: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/15390695#15390695

Also, since it says there:

In a full campaign, the heroes do not get to shop for Act II items until after the first Act II quest. In mini campaign, the heroes receive their money, shop through all the Act I shop deck, and then get the Act II shop phase as normal .

I would argue that the 'shop through act 1 shop deck' is not a normal shop phase, and thus unaffected by the rumor card..

OK. What your both saying makes sense. Sorry for all the confusion.

OK. What your both saying makes sense. Sorry for all the confusion.

This confusion is not yours ... or at least ... not only yours. The majority of us that have played this game (and others from FFG) know that often times (if **** not near always) their wording within rules, card text, quests, etc. often leaves something to be desired.

I think this comes up most often because of two things:

1) those writing the rules have little to no interaction with the game and/or the play testers -and/or-

2) those writing the rules have so much knowledge of the game that they start "assuming"

things in their mind as they write ... in the belief that everyone will know exactly what

they mean as things are so clear to them

And thus we end up with thread discussions like this one. Nonetheless, I think this thread is very valuable to help us pound out things and get peoples' different opinions. While I "know" the rules (as far as I see it), I know for a fact that I have often interpreted things different than others.

It is refreshing to get different perspectives; I may not "know" as much as I think.

Hello All. I just got an official answer to this question.

Hopefully that clears up everything.

Nice to see an official ruling.

For what it's worth, here's my group's interpretation:

There is a shopping phase after the interlude so playing Unknown Treasures is technically a legal move. However, that particular card affects shop cards that are DEALT to the heroes. During the shopping phase after the interlude, we ruled, as a group, that zero shop cards are dealt to the heroes and they instead have access to the entire act 1 shop deck. We choose to make a distinction between being dealt cards and having access to the deck and so under the same principle that says Explosive Runes doesn't deal damage to a familiar (no attribute test = no damage), Unknown Treasures doesn't have an affect on the shopping phase after the interlude (no cards dealt = no cards dealt facedown)

Just my 2 cents.