When the Imperial Raider finally releases, each faction will have its own 5-ship swarm that is roughly equivalent in brute force statline power:

Rebels - "BBBBZ" or "4BZ": 4x Blue Squadron Pilots; Bandit Squadron Pilot

Scum - "5K"^*: 5x Cartel Maurauder

Imperial - "AC/DC": 4x Tempest Squadron Pilot + TIE/x1 title + Accuracy Corrector; Dark Curse

* There might be a better name for this squad, as it is potentially ambiguous with K-wings, although you won't be able to field 5 K-wings in a 100 point squad.

So, the purpose of this thread is two-fold.

1) Discuss / vote on what a good name would be. nikk whyte has a fantastic suggestion here:

It seems the BBBBZ crowd will soon be the 5K crowd.

Pretty sure they had already moved on to being the 4 AC tempest + Dark Curse crowd.

We need a new acronym!

AC/DC

2) Discuss any strategy or experiences that you have with the squad. The cards aren't legal yet, but it is easy enough to proxy - you just need to be crazy enough to have 4 TIE Advanced.

To kick things off, I'll note that Dark Curse is a better choice than Backstabber in this squad, as the Tempests are all very tanky with Accuracy Corrector, so you want to pair an equally tanky 5th ship with them - otherwise you simply make target priority very easy for your opponent.

Secondly, if you compare each of the three squads' jousting figure of merit, they are all very similar. You do this by multiplying the total attack power by the total durability. 2 base attack dice and x/3/3/0 durability are both 1.0 as a reference point.

Here are some examples:

8 TIE Swarm: 64

BBBBZ: 53.9

5x Kihraxz: 51.7

AC/DC^*: 51.1 - 55.6

* Note: this does NOT take into account Dark Curse's extra durability or that he is PS6 - it just treats him as a standard TIE Fighter!

The TIE Advanced durability is tricky to calculate with Accuracy Corrector since the action economy will be significantly better. The two numbers here are: first assuming the same action economy as a prebuff TIE Advanced (very conservative), and then a 2nd estimate with having focus available for defense 2/3 of the time instead of 1/2 of the time (more realistic).

In real-world play, the decisions become more complex.

• You can target lock on the first attack round in the hopes of getting TL+F later at range 1 (not included in my expected damage numbers for accuracy corrector)
• You can evade instead of focusing, which is still slightly better for defense even with a 3 AGI ship
• You can barrel roll instead of focusing

So, what does everyone think -- does "AC/DC" stick?

Have you had any experiences flying it yet?

Will Ron Brannon take AC/DC to Worlds instead of BBBBZ and then win with it?

Do you plan on buying enough TIE Advanced once the Raider comes out to fly this squad?

Discuss!

I ran this about a month ago against Doug Kinney, on vassal, and he smoked me with IG AB, almost had B. but bad flying led me to allow one of my tempests dying... also i dont think DC did a single point of damage all game(bad dice)

Now we need a name for the cluster version.

Is it wise to reduce Tempests to Accuracy Correctors? ^^

Now we need a name for the cluster version.

AC/CM then I guess?

Now we need a name for the cluster version.

Thunderstruck.

Now we need a name for the cluster version.

Thunderstruck.

Winner!

Too bad there is no 2 point upgrade for a 4 Storm Pilot list ...

Name the 'original' dark curse version AC/DC then all variants get song names. If you drop curse to upgrade one tempest to Vader it should be 'Back in Black'

4 Tempests + Prockets + Tie Engine Upgrade = T.N.T.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44XYEeD1A1U

I also the the variants will be cute. Though doubtable as better mathematically.

Colzet looks fun.

Remind me again why is my raider not here?

Now we need a name for the cluster version.

Thunderstruck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_GFN3a0yj0

Thunderstruck FTW!

I have yet to find a reason to run Dark Curse over Backstabber.

I think it depends on what you need in your list. If you need a flanker for cheap, then Backstabber is your man. If you need some durability for cheap, then you can't go wrong with Dark Curse.

"Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap"

• Tempest Squadron Pilot + TIE/x1 + Cluster Missiles + Accuracy Corrector
• Tempest Squadron Pilot + TIE/x1 + Cluster Missiles + Accuracy Corrector
• Tempest Squadron Pilot + TIE/x1 + Proton Rockets + Accuracy Corrector
• Lieutenant Colzet + TIE/x1 + Proton Rockets + Accuracy Corrector

"Highway to Hell"

Echo RC ACD

Temp AC x3

FKF works for the Cartel Marauder one. Literally five Kihraxz fighters.

I like AC/DC. How is it "taken"?

I think there was a METAL BAND with this name. So a X-Wing squadron is not exactly what I had in my mind when I hear or read AC/DC ...

That's the entire basis of the pun.

Will Ron Brannon take AC/DC to Worlds instead of BBBBZ and then win with it?

Is it wise to reduce Tempests to Accuracy Correctors? ^^

More than to give them ATCs they can't make much use of.

4x Tempests w/ ACs + 4x Concussion Missiles: "You Shook Me All Night Long"

Fun aside, I think it has some really interesting defensive advantages over BBBBZ variants. Everything gun on AGI1, lots of things don't work on AGI3. Massed 2-attack weapons are going to have a very hard time breaking through AGI3 + a token. The traditional advantage of AGI 1 is that high power expensive stuff like HLC carriers, aren't as efficient against them, but even those weapons are going to have a tough time chewing through 20+ AGI3 hit points with tokens reserved for defense. Of course, the other side of the coin is that BBBBZ can spike damage much better due to 3 dice base and 4 dice at range 1. This is why I think I like Missile versions of these builds compared to just making a durable squad even more durable.

Also:

3x Tempest, AC

Soontir Fel, Title, PTL, Stealth Device, Autothrusters

98 points

"Highway to Fel"

"Anything goes"

Juno, Outmaneuver, Title, AC, Stealth Device

Doomshuttle

Tempest AC x2

For those of you seeking inspiration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_AC/DC

Fun aside, I think it has some really interesting defensive advantages over BBBBZ variants. Everything gun on AGI1, lots of things don't work on AGI3. Massed 2-attack weapons are going to have a very hard time breaking through AGI3 + a token. The traditional advantage of AGI 1 is that high power expensive stuff like HLC carriers, aren't as efficient against them, but even those weapons are going to have a tough time chewing through 20+ AGI3 hit points with tokens reserved for defense. Of course, the other side of the coin is that BBBBZ can spike damage much better due to 3 dice base and 4 dice at range 1. This is why I think I like Missile versions of these builds compared to just making a durable squad even more durable.

I am inclined to agree.

I ran a squad in the spring TC Open that was 3 AC Tempests plus ATC Vader. My first game was against mu0n's Kath and IG-88B. Kath and Vader were the first to vanish, then I spent more than 2 hours chasing his Aggressor around the board with 3 Tempests. It was just ridiculous trying to get through all of his dice and tokens.

Still, multiple Tempests with Correctors are going to chew up most fat turrets just as badly as BBBBZ already does. Moreso, even, because (a) the hits are guaranteed to roll and (b) you can spend all your actions on defense.

For those of you seeking inspiration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_AC/DC

Fun aside, I think it has some really interesting defensive advantages over BBBBZ variants. Everything gun on AGI1, lots of things don't work on AGI3. Massed 2-attack weapons are going to have a very hard time breaking through AGI3 + a token. The traditional advantage of AGI 1 is that high power expensive stuff like HLC carriers, aren't as efficient against them, but even those weapons are going to have a tough time chewing through 20+ AGI3 hit points with tokens reserved for defense. Of course, the other side of the coin is that BBBBZ can spike damage much better due to 3 dice base and 4 dice at range 1. This is why I think I like Missile versions of these builds compared to just making a durable squad even more durable.

I am inclined to agree.

I ran a squad in the spring TC Open that was 3 AC Tempests plus ATC Vader. My first game was against mu0n's Kath and IG-88B. Kath and Vader were the first to vanish, then I spent more than 2 hours chasing his Aggressor around the board with 3 Tempests. It was just ridiculous trying to get through all of his dice and tokens.

Still, multiple Tempests with Correctors are going to chew up most fat turrets just as badly as BBBBZ already does. Moreso, even, because (a) the hits are guaranteed to roll and (b) you can spend all your actions on defense.

My favorite part is that things such as Sensor Jammer, Blinded pilot... ect. do nothing to damage output. still guaranteed two hits. Mathematically speaking 3 dice will miss eventually.

What about 4 x Khraaz fighters + Serrisu?

In this set up, Serrisu lets all the K's re-roll one of their 2 evade dice, but she doesn't get it herself. So, your opponent will have to decide to fire at a Khraaz fighter that has 3 attack dice, or Serrisu that has none. Just make Serrisu Evade each turn and fly with the others. If someone targets Serrisu early on, she will most likely not die in one shot. It would waste attacks on someone while the damage dealers shoot. If they fire at the Khraaz fighters first, then Serrisu kicks in and makes them better. In this list, if Serrisu dies first, she's worth less than the other fighters.

What about 4 x Khraaz fighters + Serrisu?

In this set up, Serrisu lets all the K's re-roll one of their 2 evade dice, but she doesn't get it herself. So, your opponent will have to decide to fire at a Khraaz fighter that has 3 attack dice, or Serrisu that has none. Just make Serrisu Evade each turn and fly with the others. If someone targets Serrisu early on, she will most likely not die in one shot. It would waste attacks on someone while the damage dealers shoot. If they fire at the Khraaz fighters first, then Serrisu kicks in and makes them better. In this list, if Serrisu dies first, she's worth less than the other fighters.

I was actually playing around on YASB this morning with Serrisu and a mix of the PS5 Special K's with Draw Their Fire and Bodyguard.

I think 4 Ks plus an Ion Scyk would make a pretty nifty combo.

I prefer Backstabber over DC almost always. DC gives targeting priority more easily to your opposition just as much as Stabber. Stabber might get singled out as the single target, which you can use, whereas DC pretty much universally gets ignored which you can't really use to your advantage. 1 shotting DC or one shotting BS is pretty much the same but if they choose to ignore Stabby you profit to much greater a degree than if they ignore DC.

That is irrelevant though because I'll run Night Beast instead. Free Focus + Evade is pretty much just as tanky as DC and BR + free focus positions better for dodging or targeting purposes. The saved point can usually matter.

4x Tempests w/ ACs + 4x Concussion Missiles: "You Shook Me All Night Long"

I think Night Beast has to be part of the fleet for "Night" to work

2x Storm

Colzet

Backstabber

NB

Title and ACs on the Advanced of course.

I'm not going to agree on Dark Curse over Backstabber, either. If he makes target priority easy, great. Run him on a flank. If your opponent wants to turn his flank to choose Backstabber as the target, great. Dark Curse makes the choice meaningless - all of these ships suck to kill, so I'll just shoot at whoever is in the best position to be shot. Backstabber forces a choice because people want to shoot him, and that is something that can actually be used.

Giving your opponent hard choices only works if all the ships are dangerous and they want to kill all of them first. If you've made all of your ships equal power, but none of them particularly dangerous on their own, all you have done is make your opponent not care which he shoots. The "right" target will become whoever happens to be best in their sights. You've made his decisions easier, not harder.