A player wants to use Move power to cheat in the game of chances like dice or roulette. In such case, the success in activating the force power would result in auto-success and win, at least from my point of view. How do you deal with such cheaters? The house can be suspicious if he wins a lot or I can use any next Despair result from his roll to have someone clever enough to figure out how he was cheating and inform someone.

---

A player wants to use Influence to cheat in Sabacc to read the opponents` minds. How would you resolve it? Give an upgrade for every white Force dot he rolls or only one upgrade?

I think a lot of people miss that using a dark side pip isnt just 1 conflict. Its one conflict only if you use it selflessly, using it for a selfish or evil usage the GM can use an additional 1 to 5 per dark side pip used. Id say gambling is selfish. So thats at least 2 conflict per pip but closer to 4 or 5 per pip.

For reference page 324 bottom left hand paragraph

A player wants to use Move power to cheat in the game of chances like dice or roulette. In such case, the success in activating the force power would result in auto-success and win, at least from my point of view. How do you deal with such cheaters? The house can be suspicious if he wins a lot or I can use any next Despair result from his roll to have someone clever enough to figure out how he was cheating and inform someone.

---

A player wants to use Influence to cheat in Sabacc to read the opponents` minds. How would you resolve it? Give an upgrade for every white Force dot he rolls or only one upgrade?

As the Rules for gambling already staating: If the Player wants to cheat, upgrade the difficulty once, in case of a despair he is found out and kicked out of the game!

BUT:

you can further Upgrade the diffcultiy by using a destiny point,

And you can give an Upgrade for the case that the house is cheating itself (because then cheating of a character would be even more obvious when ever he wins while the house doesn't want him to win)

And you could also upgrade the difficulty for having a guard / henchmen of the casino that is force sensitive himself (Not only Players and inquisitors can have this special trait) since he has a proper chance to feel the usage of the force while the player cheats.

Shroud and Move would be a great technique in games like chance and roulette.

I agree Conflict should be awarded, but not for every situation. Being Robin Hood (not the more selfish RH from the book, but the "Robin Hood, Men in Tights" movie version)would be fine, and actually a great character who treads the fine line but in the end is doing a good thing, robbing from the rich to give to the needy.

You do not have to give it a flat difficulty (or no difficulty). Force and Destiny sidebar suggests using opposed checks when appropriate.

I would probably call for a Discipline check along with the Force die roll. The difficulty would be based on the dealer/house's perception roll. Add boost/setback as necessary. Opposed checks tend to add plenty of red dice, which allow for a despair result.

On the subject of killing that keeps being brought up:

There's a difference in Star Wars between killing in self defence and killing innocent or unarmed people.

Someone trying to follow the Jedi way would likely refrain from lethal action as much as possible but in defense of one's life, things can get hairy. Conflict should be small.

Murder on the other hand, is unnecessary and cruel and the book states 10+ conflict, heavily suggesting more than 10 should be awarded for such an action.

Conflict is not Dark Side Points. It is a measure how at peace you are with your actions. If you have cause to regret something, that's conflict. It's more of a roleplaying tool for the present. It is not always a slippery slope to cackling villain, Palpatine-style, that's why there is a die roll. Sometimes though, you are not okay with what you did, and that's when you begin to slip.

Shroud and Move would be a great technique in games like chance and roulette.

I agree Conflict should be awarded, but not for every situation. Being Robin Hood (not the more selfish RH from the book, but the "Robin Hood, Men in Tights" movie version)would be fine, and actually a great character who treads the fine line but in the end is doing a good thing, robbing from the rich to give to the needy.

Edit mind you it does call out that the conflict can be reduced if occasion demands it, and the traditional version of robin hood stealing the taxes back to give back to the needy would justify this IMO, if those taxes were, for example, exorbitant. There is still conflict nonetheless

Conflict would depend on context. I'd rule that Qui-Gon using the Force to tip the chance cube and win Anakin in Episode I wouldn't earn conflict, since it freed a slave and didn't win him any money (if it did, I would think the GM Lucas would immediately drain that for repairs to their ship). But if, say, Obi-Wan had sat down at a sabaac table in that cantina in Episode II and started earning himself a nest egg, that would be Conflict-worthy.

Late to the game on this I know, but felt like I should say. I would still say Qui-Gon would still get conflict for that action. Yes he was gambling to free a slave, but he was gambling for the lives of people, and, this is the important part, was willing to give up the mother's freedom because Anakin would be of more value to the Jedi Order. He was still willing to let her live in slavery, and was willing to cheat on a dice roll to make sure he actually got the child that had more value to him. So, depending on your own point of view, he was acting out of personal gain/interest. The Force Sensitive child had more worth to him and his goals, than the vanilla mortal mother of that same child.

So I would still say he got 1-2 conflict for that, no matter how you slice it. But that's not a big deal, for the most part, Qui-Gon acted like a good jedi, and that would probably have been the only conflict he got that session, depending on how many sessions it took to cover Episode 1. So at most, he would lose 1-2 points of Morality, if that. Which would reflect perhaps in, him feeling guilty for what he did to the mother, leaving her to her plight as a slave. Which I think he did reflect in the movie. He wasn't happy about leaving her behind, but he didn't hesitate to do so to get what he wanted, namely Anakin.

Besides, losing a little Morality doesn't make him a Dark Sider. Just means he did something questionable and shady, that could be debated as to whether it was the right thing or not.

Good post, and an excellent campaign example. Qui Gon is perhaps my favourite Jedi in the series. If you look at it, he was the one higher level jedi who would have been unlikely to join the clone wars, in fact I am fairly sure Lucas intended for him to be "right" all along in his defiance of the jedi council. One thing is for certain, the jedi got it wrong and its something the prequels didnt get across very well. Yoda sums it up excellently in Rebels season 2, when he said that quickly they took up the mantle in battle, and that the whole order was consumed by the dark side in that decision.

This showed clearly that the jedi would have earned conflict in making that choice. Both Sith and Jedi were both wrong in how they went about things, wonder if Bendu is going to be the right path.

Sense, Influence and Misdirect are all good for card games.

Move with fine manipulation is good for dice and roulette games.

Nothing lets you cheat at slots yet.

Using influence to get a guy to fold rather then raise may not be conflicty given how you could be doing it when they already are going to lose and you are cutting off thier losses.

Cheating Pirates, Imperial Officers, Slavers, Hutt run casinos etc... Probably not going to cause you too much conflict if any especially if you aren't planning on keeping most of the winnings.

Mental Tools could help with a Mechanics check on a Slots machine!

For cheating with the force personally I would require knowledge education rolls to determine the odds and stay within the winning margin without being caught. Also discipline or Skulduggary rolls to make it look natural when dealing with move based cheating techniques.

Watch Ocean's 13 for some examples of how they might catch someone using the force to cheat.

That or the old tv show Vegas.

Cheaters are usually caught, because statistics for winning puts them in an outlier which then increases the scrutiny on them until they figure out how they are cheating. This is also what usually ends up catching card counters as well.

There are tactics to avoid getting caught

Sense, Influence and Misdirect are all good for card games.

Move with fine manipulation is good for dice and roulette games.

Nothing lets you cheat at slots yet.

How about using Forsee with the specific details upgrade to see what slot machine you need to use to get a payout?

More generally:

Battle Meditation - to help the rest of the party with their gambling.

Misdirect with upgrades - to go "invisible" to the other gamblers (but not your buddy) so you can look at all their cards to help your friend win.

Heal/Harm - if it's an animal race, Harm the creatures in the lead and your animal is more likely to pass them and win.

Seek - find the other force-using cheats, so they don't beat you.

A player declared me that he wants to use Move force power to cheat in the roulette game. Since it is a simple game where cheating is very easy for someone with two Force die, I dont see a need for a Force check.

The player declares that he wants to do it several times, moving from a casino to a casino, trying to avoid the casinos of the same family or corporation, winning small 1-2k, keeping lower profile.

How would you handle this?

My idea is to ask for Streetwise checks. Difficulty based on the win, he wants 1k - 1 purple, 2k - 2 purple, etc. With each casino the difficulty is increased by 1 purple. The check does not decide about the winning, it is automatic because od the force power, but suspicion that arises - all casinos are in one town. My idea about it comes from some posts above, casinos record winnings, share informatiom about the clients, possible cheaters.

A player declared me that he wants to use Move force power to cheat in the roulette game. Since it is a simple game where cheating is very easy for someone with two Force die, I dont see a need for a Force check.

The player declares that he wants to do it several times, moving from a casino to a casino, trying to avoid the casinos of the same family or corporation, winning small 1-2k, keeping lower profile.

How would you handle this?

My idea is to ask for Streetwise checks. Difficulty based on the win, he wants 1k - 1 purple, 2k - 2 purple, etc. With each casino the difficulty is increased by 1 purple. The check does not decide about the winning, it is automatic because od the force power, but suspicion that arises - all casinos are in one town. My idea about it comes from some posts above, casinos record winnings, share informatiom about the clients, possible cheaters.

I would honestly still have him roll the force dice, if only to determine whether he had to use any Dark Side pips. I would also probably lower the amount of money for each difficulty rating, just because 1000 creds on roulette seems an awful lot, for an Easy roll anyways . I would also give a setback die for each additional time he uses it beyond the first, just to represent people starting to notice the funny actions he's doing like concentrating, moving his hand, the ball falling oddly, etc.

A player declared me that he wants to use Move force power to cheat in the roulette game. Since it is a simple game where cheating is very easy for someone with two Force die, I dont see a need for a Force check.

The player declares that he wants to do it several times, moving from a casino to a casino, trying to avoid the casinos of the same family or corporation, winning small 1-2k, keeping lower profile.

How would you handle this?

My idea is to ask for Streetwise checks. Difficulty based on the win, he wants 1k - 1 purple, 2k - 2 purple, etc. With each casino the difficulty is increased by 1 purple. The check does not decide about the winning, it is automatic because od the force power, but suspicion that arises - all casinos are in one town. My idea about it comes from some posts above, casinos record winnings, share informatiom about the clients, possible cheaters.

I would honestly still have him roll the force dice, if only to determine whether he had to use any Dark Side pips. I would also probably lower the amount of money for each difficulty rating, just because 1000 creds on roulette seems an awful lot, for an Easy roll anyways . I would also give a setback die for each additional time he uses it beyond the first, just to represent people starting to notice the funny actions he's doing like concentrating, moving his hand, the ball falling oddly, etc.

I agree, always make the player roll the force check. There should always be the chance that the player only rolls dark pips and either makes the choice to go ahead and take the conflict, or to "fizzle" the ability if he/she is deterred from the dark pips.

I like the idea of adding setback dice as the character continues to gamble more, perhaps in addition to upgrading the check with red dice.

A player declared me that he wants to use Move force power to cheat in the roulette game. Since it is a simple game where cheating is very easy for someone with two Force die, I dont see a need for a Force check.

The player declares that he wants to do it several times, moving from a casino to a casino, trying to avoid the casinos of the same family or corporation, winning small 1-2k, keeping lower profile.

How would you handle this?

My idea is to ask for Streetwise checks. Difficulty based on the win, he wants 1k - 1 purple, 2k - 2 purple, etc. With each casino the difficulty is increased by 1 purple. The check does not decide about the winning, it is automatic because od the force power, but suspicion that arises - all casinos are in one town. My idea about it comes from some posts above, casinos record winnings, share informatiom about the clients, possible cheaters.

I've watched this thread expound on earned Conflict for questionable use of Force Powers.

Wondering aloud, if the slippery slope of selfish use is our benchmark, we'd have Force Users who act very much like real-life (Buddhist) Monks.

For example, using Move to fling a rock as a distraction should earn a Conflict as we extend this logic, because many billions of midichlorians (which are canon) and two bees were thrown off their natural trajectory...because of a selfish Force User. If not but for that act, those midichlorians would have gathered and combined to create something truly wonderful. Those bees? Another Force User sent them on a reconnaissance mission.

Likewise, merely drinking water that wasn't filtered means the loss of countless microbiological lifeforms. Boil water? Good job, murderer - here's a lot of Conflict for being so selfish as to drink at the expense of life for others. Everyone in the Cantina who watched you drink unfiltered water also gets some Conflict.

From this thread, I've learned how all of my players are now likely to fall to the Dark Side, but also learned that belonging to said Dark Side may have very little impact. For those liking to cite Master Qui Gon may do well to remember he is considered a Gray Jedi (link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi).

The character I'm playing now has exactly that problem, and it's part of her arc to come to terms with it. The GM doesn't use the Conflict mechanic in her game, but we're still exploring it together.

The thing about Conflict is that it's a mix of both objective and subjective morality. Some actions earn conflict no matter what, so you can fall to the dark side even if you don't feel any remorse about your actions at all. Other actions only earn conflict if the character is personally, well, conflicted about their actions.

I've watched this thread expound on earned Conflict for questionable use of Force Powers.

Wondering aloud, if the slippery slope of selfish use is our benchmark, we'd have Force Users who act very much like real-life (Buddhist) Monks.

For example, using Move to fling a rock as a distraction should earn a Conflict as we extend this logic, because many billions of midichlorians (which are canon) and two bees were thrown off their natural trajectory...because of a selfish Force User. If not but for that act, those midichlorians would have gathered and combined to create something truly wonderful. Those bees? Another Force User sent them on a reconnaissance mission.

Likewise, merely drinking water that wasn't filtered means the loss of countless microbiological lifeforms. Boil water? Good job, murderer - here's a lot of Conflict for being so selfish as to drink at the expense of life for others. Everyone in the Cantina who watched you drink unfiltered water also gets some Conflict.

From this thread, I've learned how all of my players are now likely to fall to the Dark Side, but also learned that belonging to said Dark Side may have very little impact. For those liking to cite Master Qui Gon may do well to remember he is considered a Gray Jedi (link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi).

I wouldnt say that jedi are Buddhist monks, however using the force to stop someone murdering an innocent , your friend or in defence of yourself, if you tap into the dark side and use 2 dark side pips , okay you lost control of your emotions a little, and you get 2 conflict, because it wasnt a selfish action.

Using move because you are lazy and cant be bothered lifting the boxes yourself, but you use only light side points , no conflict , you are at peace with yourself. Do the same and use 2 dark side pips its not just 2 conflict anymore as somewhere along the line , you got angry or another negative emotion and now its 4 or 6 conflict.

Now using move to kill that guard thats blocking the way, and you use 2 light side points to do it, again you are at peace, no conflict for using the force (your actions however may do so) use 2 dark side pips its 12 points for using the force in anger aggresively and potentially another 10 for murder. 22 conflict for one action.

Thats how I work it.

I've watched this thread expound on earned Conflict for questionable use of Force Powers.

Wondering aloud, if the slippery slope of selfish use is our benchmark, we'd have Force Users who act very much like real-life (Buddhist) Monks.

For example, using Move to fling a rock as a distraction should earn a Conflict as we extend this logic, because many billions of midichlorians (which are canon) and two bees were thrown off their natural trajectory...because of a selfish Force User. If not but for that act, those midichlorians would have gathered and combined to create something truly wonderful. Those bees? Another Force User sent them on a reconnaissance mission.

Likewise, merely drinking water that wasn't filtered means the loss of countless microbiological lifeforms. Boil water? Good job, murderer - here's a lot of Conflict for being so selfish as to drink at the expense of life for others. Everyone in the Cantina who watched you drink unfiltered water also gets some Conflict.

From this thread, I've learned how all of my players are now likely to fall to the Dark Side, but also learned that belonging to said Dark Side may have very little impact. For those liking to cite Master Qui Gon may do well to remember he is considered a Gray Jedi (link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi).

.....you're joking right? This post is a snark post right? Because I can't actually believe that you think the Force works that way, about giving you conflict for supposedly disturbing a cloud of medichlorians. Or slightly moving a bee off it's course. That's just crazy talk if you think that is the actual spirit of the rules of this game.

I've watched this thread expound on earned Conflict for questionable use of Force Powers.

Wondering aloud, if the slippery slope of selfish use is our benchmark, we'd have Force Users who act very much like real-life (Buddhist) Monks.

For example, using Move to fling a rock as a distraction should earn a Conflict as we extend this logic, because many billions of midichlorians (which are canon) and two bees were thrown off their natural trajectory...because of a selfish Force User. If not but for that act, those midichlorians would have gathered and combined to create something truly wonderful. Those bees? Another Force User sent them on a reconnaissance mission.

Likewise, merely drinking water that wasn't filtered means the loss of countless microbiological lifeforms. Boil water? Good job, murderer - here's a lot of Conflict for being so selfish as to drink at the expense of life for others. Everyone in the Cantina who watched you drink unfiltered water also gets some Conflict.

From this thread, I've learned how all of my players are now likely to fall to the Dark Side, but also learned that belonging to said Dark Side may have very little impact. For those liking to cite Master Qui Gon may do well to remember he is considered a Gray Jedi (link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi).

.....you're joking right? This post is a snark post right? Because I can't actually believe that you think the Force works that way, about giving you conflict for supposedly disturbing a cloud of medichlorians. Or slightly moving a bee off it's course. That's just crazy talk if you think that is the actual spirit of the rules of this game.

Yup. Reductio ad absurdum - I saw the slippery slope of how we can look at Conflict and selfish uses of the Force, grabbed a banana peel, oiled-up my body, and dove head first down said slide.

However, for a party of Seekers that may include a Hermit, Pathfinder, and their ilk, I could actually see a game evolve by which such introspective analysis of the Force may apply as I wrote. Or, read my signature

I've watched this thread expound on earned Conflict for questionable use of Force Powers.

Wondering aloud, if the slippery slope of selfish use is our benchmark, we'd have Force Users who act very much like real-life (Buddhist) Monks.

For example, using Move to fling a rock as a distraction should earn a Conflict as we extend this logic, because many billions of midichlorians (which are canon) and two bees were thrown off their natural trajectory...because of a selfish Force User. If not but for that act, those midichlorians would have gathered and combined to create something truly wonderful. Those bees? Another Force User sent them on a reconnaissance mission.

Likewise, merely drinking water that wasn't filtered means the loss of countless microbiological lifeforms. Boil water? Good job, murderer - here's a lot of Conflict for being so selfish as to drink at the expense of life for others. Everyone in the Cantina who watched you drink unfiltered water also gets some Conflict.

From this thread, I've learned how all of my players are now likely to fall to the Dark Side, but also learned that belonging to said Dark Side may have very little impact. For those liking to cite Master Qui Gon may do well to remember he is considered a Gray Jedi (link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi).

.....you're joking right? This post is a snark post right? Because I can't actually believe that you think the Force works that way, about giving you conflict for supposedly disturbing a cloud of medichlorians. Or slightly moving a bee off it's course. That's just crazy talk if you think that is the actual spirit of the rules of this game.

Yup. Reductio ad absurdum - I saw the slippery slope of how we can look at Conflict and selfish uses of the Force, grabbed a banana peel, oiled-up my body, and dove head first down said slide.

However, for a party of Seekers that may include a Hermit, Pathfinder, and their ilk, I could actually see a game evolve by which such introspective analysis of the Force may apply as I wrote. Or, read my signature

Had to make sure. You can never be sure on the internet. Crazy is heavily outsourced on it, worldwide.