While you can compare them - shouldn't we compare the Kihraxz to the B-wing?

Nah, the K and X both are the most comparable, hitpoints, agi, attack, and the big one - lack of native alteration of maneuver.

Differences are the shield/hull, Dial, and astromech/illicit.

Dial i'd say for the K is superior in every way,

points for basic the K wins.

choice of elite pilots the X wins.

Astro vs illicit... i'd side with astro myself, but it's not cut and dry.

EPT/high end generic. K wins, easily.

the B has native barrel roll, more hitpoints, a cannon mount and warheads if they ever got good, and instead of astromech has the (some might argue) better system slot.

For me, the news about the Kihraxz fighter doesn't slap mud in the X-wing's face at all. Here's how I see it. The designers know that the X-wing isn't well costed. In making a similar ship for Scum & Villainy, they knew they needed to cost it right. They also know that by costing the Kihraxz lower than the X-wing, there will be a larger outcry for fixing the X-wing. So I would be astonished if the next product announced for X-wing will include an X-wing fix.

In summary, the Kihraxz's cost doesn't so much make me feel bad for the X-wing as it does make me look forward in anticipation to its inevitable fix.

Haha you guys are being a-holes about this. "This argument doesn't count because they are from different factions." Chill. You know what he meant. Until we see a fix for the X-wing the K fighter will replace the generics in a mono ship build of this style. The B-wings have already done that. While the B-wing is (marginally) better than the k-fighter a mono k-fighter is very viable in a competitive atmosphere.

Also I don't want to go back a page and quote it but that one with the arrows pointing to the faction symbols. Hilarious. Haha it is a good thing I can't have a mini fridge at work or I'd have shot milk out of my nose.

Just wait for the T-70 pack

yes

that sums up my hope for the game right there

I don't know. I like the T-16.

I'm happy to see that the Kazakhstan does not repeat the mistakes of the X-Wing, and also that it doesn't represent power creep by being a _significantly*_ better value than the X-Wing.

In fact, given the Kazakhstan's lack of post maneuver position change, they probably could have coated it a bit more aggressively and still had it be ok.

Ideally, I'd be trying to choose between the StarViper and the Kazakhstan for a solid ~20 point fighter, depending on if I want a jouster or a flanker.

Unfortunately the StarViper looks to be overcosted relative to it's performance. So the Kazakhstan is the best overall value Scum are getting at that price point.

*ok, it is a better value in a way that is statistically significant. You folks are so pedantic.

What I like with the Kxz is that it's Scum's first solidly-priced simple, solid 3-attack jouster.

They've had Z-95s, but those are attack 2; BTL-A4 Y-wings have lots of punch, but the punch scales weirdly with range and tokens, while PS1 Starvipers are simply overpriced - and then the other ones are Large so come with their own complications.

I'm not sure it's more competitive than a B-wing, but it's certainly potent enough for a niche itself.

I'm happy to see that the Kazakhstan does not repeat the mistakes of the X-Wing, and also that it doesn't represent power creep by being a _significantly*_ better value than the X-Wing.

In fact, given the Kazakhstan's lack of post maneuver position change, they probably could have coated it a bit more aggressively and still had it be ok.

Ideally, I'd be trying to choose between the StarViper and the Kazakhstan for a solid ~20 point fighter, depending on if I want a jouster or a flanker.

Unfortunately the StarViper looks to be overcosted relative to it's performance. So the Kazakhstan is the best overall value Scum are getting at that price point.

*ok, it is a better value in a way that is statistically significant. You folks are so pedantic.

What do you expect when you deal with super nerds. They always want to 'correct' you or show off their nerd knowledge. We all have to feel the Nerd Rage.

Well by making a ship with a better dial for cheaper, FFG just inadvertedly admits that the X-Wing is not strong enough. It won't be a replacement since they are in different Factions though.

It should have been 20 points for a Rookie from the beginning. That way we would not have seem Tie Swarm dominance in waves 1-2, no Phantom would have beenneeded to end this dominance, Turrets would not have been needed to counter them and last but not least there would not be any need for an X-Wing fix.

I have no clue why tgey thought 5X were too strong. It would never have been.

At least now they have absolutely no reason anymore to not finally bring out a fix for the X-wing.

I am honestly a bit disappointed that it has not been announced or is not present in wave 7. They bring out Tie Engine for the Defender? Well okay thats certainly necessary but it has not been on that waiting list for nearly as long as the X! Uf it has not been announced yet we can expect more than a year before it would finally come. That's much much too long!

Haha you guys are being a-holes about this. "This argument doesn't count because they are from different factions." Chill. You know what he meant. Until we see a fix for the X-wing the K fighter will replace the generics in a mono ship build of this style. The B-wings have already done that. While the B-wing is (marginally) better than the k-fighter a mono k-fighter is very viable in a competitive atmosphere.

But four Rookie X-wing builds aren't a thing and never have been, except maybe in Wave I.

Replacing something non-existent isn't replacement.

I looked at the X-Wing and B-Wing comparisons for the Kihraxz Fighter in my review of the ship (shameless plug here).

If KKKKK / 5K / whatever you want to call it is going to be a thing, it will have to be because of the maneuver dial. Otherwise it doesn't do anything that existing swarms already do just fine, and in a maneuver-neutral damage race they'll get beaten pretty consistently by BBBBZ. (Side note, it's interesting to me that the scum squad does better by attacking the Z-95 as the 3rd target).

I think KKKKZ Maybe better, with the Kihraxz all having Glitterstim. Heck of an alpha strike it should be.

But AC/DC will be stronger than both, I think.

I looked at the X-Wing and B-Wing comparisons for the Kihraxz Fighter in my review of the ship (shameless plug here).

If KKKKK / 5K / whatever you want to call it is going to be a thing, it will have to be because of the maneuver dial. Otherwise it doesn't do anything that existing swarms already do just fine, and in a maneuver-neutral damage race they'll get beaten pretty consistently by BBBBZ. (Side note, it's interesting to me that the scum squad does better by attacking the Z-95 as the 3rd target).

Pretty good review. Nice to see more spreadsheet nerds around.

Bear in mind that:

1. B-wings' 1 AGI and 8 HP is a soft statistical counter to 3 attack ships.
2. When you calculate damage and durability with more than just range 2 with focus on offense and nothing on defense the answer will change. In particular, assuming no focus on defense really hurts 2AGI relative to 1AGI.

I would expect a more thorough direct analysis to still favor BBBBZ, but not by as much as you have shown. The Kihraxz jousting efficiency is slightly lower than the B-wing, which is reflected in the total squad's attack*durability figure of merit, which I calculated (using more meta-wide and robust action economy assumptions) as 96% of BBBBZ. It's enough of a difference to see clearly on paper, but on the table it might take a little longer for people to get a long term feel for it.

The most use that I expect to see out of any of the Kihraxz is 5x of them, and occasionally Cobra mixed in with other ships. I don't see much use of the occasional Kihraxz getting splashed into a list as filler "just because". This is partially because the meta hates anything more than 2 ships (no partial points = death to swarms) unless you have a BBBBZ style firepower jousting list, and partially because the Kihraxz is "OK but not great". Kihraxz doesn't have the same versatility that the B-wing has. No system slot, cannon upgrade, or title to get Panic-Attack style control via Tactician. If the PS2 was 19 points then it would still lack versatility but it would be a compelling value buy.

I looked at the X-Wing and B-Wing comparisons for the Kihraxz Fighter in my review of the ship (shameless plug here).

If KKKKK / 5K / whatever you want to call it is going to be a thing, it will have to be because of the maneuver dial. Otherwise it doesn't do anything that existing swarms already do just fine, and in a maneuver-neutral damage race they'll get beaten pretty consistently by BBBBZ. (Side note, it's interesting to me that the scum squad does better by attacking the Z-95 as the 3rd target).

What it's got going for it is maximum firepower, 15 red dice. Only the eight TIE swarm beats that, and those come in 2 dice attacks rather than 3 dice attacks.

It can't replace something that nobody takes in the first place.

I looked at the X-Wing and B-Wing comparisons for the Kihraxz Fighter in my review of the ship (shameless plug here).

If KKKKK / 5K / whatever you want to call it is going to be a thing, it will have to be because of the maneuver dial. Otherwise it doesn't do anything that existing swarms already do just fine, and in a maneuver-neutral damage race they'll get beaten pretty consistently by BBBBZ. (Side note, it's interesting to me that the scum squad does better by attacking the Z-95 as the 3rd target).

What it's got going for it is maximum firepower, 15 red dice. Only the eight TIE swarm beats that, and those come in 2 dice attacks rather than 3 dice attacks.

Looking at only dice, some other squads also match / exceed:

4x Sigma Squadron Pilots (16 dice in 4 attacks)

5x Alpha squadron pilots (15 dice in 5 attacks, 90 points)

Forgot about the Sigmas. The Alphas/Avengers only match (but I did forget them too).

Neither come in particularly durable packages though.

Forgot about the Sigmas. The Alphas/Avengers only match (but I did forget them too).

Neither come in particularly durable packages though.

Slightly lower durability is also a tradeoff of the 5x Kihraxz relative to BBBBZ, obviously not as excessive as Alphas or especially the Sigmas though.

I think the K will end uo like the x wing in that the named pilots will see use for their abilities but not the generics because the Z95 is still a better/more efficient use of points.

Something like this might be fun:

I looked at the X-Wing and B-Wing comparisons for the Kihraxz Fighter in my review of the ship (shameless plug here).

If KKKKK / 5K / whatever you want to call it is going to be a thing, it will have to be because of the maneuver dial. Otherwise it doesn't do anything that existing swarms already do just fine, and in a maneuver-neutral damage race they'll get beaten pretty consistently by BBBBZ. (Side note, it's interesting to me that the scum squad does better by attacking the Z-95 as the 3rd target).

What it's got going for it is maximum firepower, 15 red dice. Only the eight TIE swarm beats that, and those come in 2 dice attacks rather than 3 dice attacks.

Looking at only dice, some other squads also match / exceed:

4x Sigma Squadron Pilots (16 dice in 4 attacks)

5x Alpha squadron pilots (15 dice in 5 attacks, 90 points)

Those Alphas can also pick up Autothrusters for durability or Targeting Computer to increase attack ability. So fragile, though.

I looked at the X-Wing and B-Wing comparisons for the Kihraxz Fighter in my review of the ship (shameless plug here).

If KKKKK / 5K / whatever you want to call it is going to be a thing, it will have to be because of the maneuver dial. Otherwise it doesn't do anything that existing swarms already do just fine, and in a maneuver-neutral damage race they'll get beaten pretty consistently by BBBBZ. (Side note, it's interesting to me that the scum squad does better by attacking the Z-95 as the 3rd target).

What it's got going for it is maximum firepower, 15 red dice. Only the eight TIE swarm beats that, and those come in 2 dice attacks rather than 3 dice attacks.

Looking at only dice, some other squads also match / exceed:

4x Sigma Squadron Pilots (16 dice in 4 attacks)

5x Alpha squadron pilots (15 dice in 5 attacks, 90 points)

If you are looking at raw damage output you should take a look at this thread:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/179055-which-fleet-has-the-most-raw-damage/

There are a bunch of builds based off of alpha strikes and sustained damage output.

If you are looking at raw damage output you should take a look at this thread:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/179055-which-fleet-has-the-most-raw-damage/

There are a bunch of builds based off of alpha strikes and sustained damage output.

Yep. It was just a simple example, as best as I can tell, I have done more advanced math on the game than anyone else (including the developers), so I'm well aware of the subtleties.

I could crash the thread by actually calculating the expected damage for each suggested list but I'm overdue on analyzing Missiles and Torpedoes!

If you are looking at raw damage output you should take a look at this thread:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/179055-which-fleet-has-the-most-raw-damage/

There are a bunch of builds based off of alpha strikes and sustained damage output.

Yep. It was just a simple example, as best as I can tell, I have done more advanced math on the game than anyone else (including the developers), so I'm well aware of the subtleties.

It's true, he has indeed.

One thing no one has mentioned in the comparison of the 2 craft is the astromech slot. While the special K is clearly the superior ship across the board, astromechs can grant some pretty powerful effects. R3-A2, R7, and several others. now, I still believe the K is better. cheaper, far better dial, but I think astromechs need to be part of the discussion if we are going to compare them

4x Black Sun Ace, 4x Wingman?