more offense and more independence from formation flying = is 4k + serissu even a consideration instead of 5k

It seems the BBBBZ crowd will soon be the 5K crowd.

Pretty sure they had already moved on to being the 4 AC tempest + Dark Curse crowd.

We need a new acronym!

AC/DC

It seems the BBBBZ crowd will soon be the 5K crowd.

Pretty sure they had already moved on to being the 4 AC tempest + Dark Curse crowd.

We need a new acronym!

AC/DC

Hot dang I like that! I'm going to start a new thread so people can weigh in. I think we have a winner though!

It seems the BBBBZ crowd will soon be the 5K crowd.

Pretty sure they had already moved on to being the 4 AC tempest + Dark Curse crowd.

We need a new acronym!

AC/DC

and thus, a star is born

HLC Scyk's a different story. Mangler Scyk I never really understood.

HLC Syck's are the ultimate glass cannons in the game. 23 points with only 3 hitpoints and they draw a lot of hate because they are packing a big gun. I've run one before and either it dies right away or goes unchecked and can do some damage. However, it wants to stay at range 3 but can't do that very effectively without the 1 forward. I think it was a mistake to not give it a 1 forward. That and the fact that they are priced about 2 points too expensive. That **** heavy Syck title should have been free.

HLC Syck < Marauder with Glitterstim and Dampeners.

It seems the BBBBZ crowd will soon be the 5K crowd.

Pretty sure they had already moved on to being the 4 AC tempest + Dark Curse crowd.

We need a new acronym!

AC/DC

Should the Scyk have been priced 13 from lowest? Or 15 with a canon slot? I see a LOT of them sitting on shelves right now, don't think anyone has fallen I love with them. There's far more love for Special K these days, and it's not even out!

HLC Scyk's a different story. Mangler Scyk I never really understood.

HLC Syck's are the ultimate glass cannons in the game. 23 points with only 3 hitpoints and they draw a lot of hate because they are packing a big gun. I've run one before and either it dies right away or goes unchecked and can do some damage. However, it wants to stay at range 3 but can't do that very effectively without the 1 forward. I think it was a mistake to not give it a 1 forward. That and the fact that they are priced about 2 points too expensive. That **** heavy Syck title should have been free.

HLC Syck < Marauder with Glitterstim and Dampeners.

In my experience they get ignored until it's too late. Their lack of widespread use is an advantage.

I agree making the title cost points may have been a bad idea, especially costing two. I suppose it was to stop proton rockets.

As a cheap way to get 4 Attack Dice they're okay.

You can run 2 Cartel Spacers with HLC and Title and Stealth Device for 52 points and fill out the rest of the list with 4x Binayre Pirate. It's not too bad actually.

They're balanced in regards to normal ships, but when gunner 4 dice FCS shenanigans game breaking BS starts firing at them they lose. Maybe they're a point or two over priced but that's not their issue, game ruining hyper ships using combos meant for Lambdas is the issue.

Gunner 4 die FCS effects only really bother high agility with tokens. Everything else just gets scrape hit.

As a cheap way to get 4 Attack Dice they're okay.

You can run 2 Cartel Spacers with HLC and Title and Stealth Device for 52 points and fill out the rest of the list with 4x Binayre Pirate. It's not too bad actually.

They're balanced in regards to normal ships, but when gunner 4 dice FCS shenanigans game breaking BS starts firing at them they lose. Maybe they're a point or two over priced but that's not their issue, game ruining hyper ships using combos meant for Lambdas is the issue.

Pretty much. It's kind of just a better X Wing. At first I wanted to suggest rookie with an R7 as a better use of the ~20 point range, but at 23 points you get PS 5 and an ept. A great deal IMO for the extra 3 points. Even just for 1 point EPTs.

It has a better dial, it's costed better, so yeah, it's a better X Wing. What, can we not compare ships cross faction?

Well for 24 points you can get a red with an EPT, now no one uses the red squad with an EPT because there are better options (IE a blue with FCS). I Still think the starviper is a better ship for the point range, but in a spam list I can see the appeal of having 5 20 point ships (which Is where I think these guys will blaze the most)

As a cheap way to get 4 Attack Dice they're okay.

You can run 2 Cartel Spacers with HLC and Title and Stealth Device for 52 points and fill out the rest of the list with 4x Binayre Pirate. It's not too bad actually.

They're balanced in regards to normal ships, but when gunner 4 dice FCS shenanigans game breaking BS starts firing at them they lose. Maybe they're a point or two over priced but that's not their issue, game ruining hyper ships using combos meant for Lambdas is the issue.

You must be a blast to play with...

The last few time I've played, I've used an XXXX list. Despite how much I complain on here I like to fly funky lists that are somewhat competitive, and I'm probably more fun to play against that someone using an HLC as a ******* turret.

Black Sun Ace (23)

Lightning Reflexes (1)

Black Sun Ace (23)

Lightning Reflexes (1)

Black Sun Ace (23)

Lightning Reflexes (1)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Feedback Array (2)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Feedback Array (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

And to appeal you m3-a Lovers

Black Sun Ace (23)

Predator (3)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Black Sun Ace (23)

Predator (3)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Cartel Spacer (14)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Cartel Spacer (14)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I like both squads. I just always think when I put an HLC on a Spacer that I rather go Mangler + Hull Upgrade. That way I at least insure that the likelihood of my Spacer getting spaced before he even gets to shoot is less. Its painful to lose a spacer in one shot after your blank dice. 23 points that your opponent didn't even have to work hard for to remove.

How can a ship from one faction replace a ship from another faction? Given the context of the upgrades available and support around it, it's very difficult to say that one is replacing the other. Scum competes with scum and rebels with rebels.

The reality is the B-Wing replaced the X-Wing back in Wave 3.

As a cheap way to get 4 Attack Dice they're okay.

You can run 2 Cartel Spacers with HLC and Title and Stealth Device for 52 points and fill out the rest of the list with 4x Binayre Pirate. It's not too bad actually.

They're balanced in regards to normal ships, but when gunner 4 dice FCS shenanigans game breaking BS starts firing at them they lose. Maybe they're a point or two over priced but that's not their issue, game ruining hyper ships using combos meant for Lambdas is the issue.

Thus why I say the Brobots have replaced the Buzzsaw.

True that they are 2 different lists. For one they are in different factions. But the Brobots roll 1 more dice and have much better maneuverability and damage mitigation. The Buzzsaws, well you can take another ship with 2 buzzsaw shuttles. Sure they are different but mechanically they are the same. reroll missed attacks with a target lock and big base with boost.

Now for the argument about factions, yeah if someone is a loyal rebel player they would take a rookie over a marauder any day. But then again they would probably take a B-wing or a couple of Bandits instead of a rookie so the rookie pilot had already been displaced. Now those who love the jack of all trades middle row master of nothing type fighters that the X-wing used to have a firm grip on it seems now they have 2 options. Either the slower moving X-wing that restricts you to 4 in a squadron, or the faster, nimbler, and cheaper Kihraxz fighter.

also IMHO I think the Kihraxz fighter has the better dial. Missile upgrades tend to be better than torpedo upgrades. The illicit slot is a plus. So what does the X-wing have that makes it cost 1 point more? not torpedoes, astromech? more shield coverage? Of course in hind sight it makes sense to place the Cartel at 20 points, but after wave 7 there really isn't a reason to play a rookie pilot.

As a cheap way to get 4 Attack Dice they're okay.

You can run 2 Cartel Spacers with HLC and Title and Stealth Device for 52 points and fill out the rest of the list with 4x Binayre Pirate. It's not too bad actually.

They're balanced in regards to normal ships, but when gunner 4 dice FCS shenanigans game breaking BS starts firing at them they lose. Maybe they're a point or two over priced but that's not their issue, game ruining hyper ships using combos meant for Lambdas is the issue.

You must be a blast to play with...

The last few time I've played, I've used an XXXX list. Despite how much I complain on here I like to fly funky lists that are somewhat competitive, and I'm probably more fun to play against that someone using an HLC as a ******* turret.

My poor Xs. They go so unused. =( Seriously, I haven't flown them competitively in a long time And I have FIVE. =( not Four. FIVE. Cuz five is a cool squadron group. =( I have 5 ints, 5 bombers. Ugh. 5 Xs so useless so far. =(

I'm going to ask my friends if we can do casuals X -1 point, it looks like FFG thinks now that 5 X-stat-ed ships in 100 pts won't break the game.

Though, I think Mathwing says that Biggs should not get -1. He's very good as is and is used in tournaments.

also IMHO I think the Kihraxz fighter has the better dial. Missile upgrades tend to be better than torpedo upgrades. The illicit slot is a plus. So what does the X-wing have that makes it cost 1 point more? not torpedoes, astromech? more shield coverage? Of course in hind sight it makes sense to place the Cartel at 20 points, but after wave 7 there really isn't a reason to play a rookie pilot.

the Rookie Pilot has only poor design decisions

it's the same as every other wave 1 ship (minus the tie fighter), a product of a lack of foresight which is understandable given it was the very beginning of X-wing miniatures and humans are, by nature, not clairvoyant.

Point is, there's nothing FFG can do about the Rookie apart from releasing a fix in the future. Until then, there is no reason to make the Special-K crap even if it being decent would make it strictly superior to the X.

Now for the argument about factions, yeah if someone is a loyal rebel player they would take a rookie over a marauder any day. But then again they would probably take a B-wing or a couple of Bandits instead of a rookie so the rookie pilot had already been displaced. Now those who love the jack of all trades middle row master of nothing type fighters that the X-wing used to have a firm grip on it seems now they have 2 options. Either the slower moving X-wing that restricts you to 4 in a squadron, or the faster, nimbler, and cheaper Kihraxz fighter.

But you're basically talking about people who run mono-ship type lists (I.E. All X-Wings or all Khiraxzs). I think that only represents a very small number of players.

For the rest of us, switching from rookies to marauders will also mean giving up Dash. Or giving up B-Wings. Or heck, even giving up on PS2 Z-95s. That might matter to some people as well (I know a lot of people who like to keep an even pilot skill).

Even those who run mono-ship type lists will have to give up on the unique pilots and upgrades available within the faction.

Now for the argument about factions, yeah if someone is a loyal rebel player they would take a rookie over a marauder any day. But then again they would probably take a B-wing or a couple of Bandits instead of a rookie so the rookie pilot had already been displaced. Now those who love the jack of all trades middle row master of nothing type fighters that the X-wing used to have a firm grip on it seems now they have 2 options. Either the slower moving X-wing that restricts you to 4 in a squadron, or the faster, nimbler, and cheaper Kihraxz fighter.

But you're basically talking about people who run mono-ship type lists (I.E. All X-Wings or all Khiraxzs). I think that only represents a very small number of players.

For the rest of us, switching from rookies to marauders will also mean giving up Dash. Or giving up B-Wings. Or heck, even giving up on PS2 Z-95s. That might matter to some people as well (I know a lot of people who like to keep an even pilot skill).

Even those who run mono-ship type lists will have to give up on the unique pilots and upgrades available within the faction.

Best point for the factions right there. It is not the ship but the list that wins tournaments.

Now as I said before in previous threads that the S&V still have a hard time finding what top lists that their faction has. Right now there is only 2 S&V lists that are winning regional. Brobots (I still think buzzdroids is better) is the primary one, and a few built around a Firescum. Haveing a better X-wing might not make more S&V top tier meta lists.

also IMHO I think the Kihraxz fighter has the better dial. Missile upgrades tend to be better than torpedo upgrades. The illicit slot is a plus. So what does the X-wing have that makes it cost 1 point more? not torpedoes, astromech? more shield coverage? Of course in hind sight it makes sense to place the Cartel at 20 points, but after wave 7 there really isn't a reason to play a rookie pilot.

the Rookie Pilot has only poor design decisions

it's the same as every other wave 1 ship (minus the tie fighter), a product of a lack of foresight which is understandable given it was the very beginning of X-wing miniatures and humans are, by nature, not clairvoyant.

Point is, there's nothing FFG can do about the Rookie apart from releasing a fix in the future. Until then, there is no reason to make the Special-K crap even if it being decent would make it strictly superior to the X.

I wouldn't call it poor design decisions. As the game was very playable with only Wave 1. It is pretty clear that what the original designer of the game did not intend for the game to be a tournament game, with the type of thought that goes into balancing a tournament game.

In Wave I the X-wing was the only three dice ship. It was to Wave I what the TIE phantom was to Wave 4 when it comes to raw gun.