You should be able to autowin against a Soontir list with turret Vader gunner shenanigans. Should you face a Deci, yours should be able to match theirs and 4 TIES can put the hurt on it.

Maybe drop Engine Upgrade and up the Academies to Obsidians so all of your ships would be at PS 3?

I've done a patrol leader with obsidians, its fun, but a friend did a naked patrol leader with 5 academies and threw us all for a loop lol we scrambled to beat him, but all those shots seemed to confuse us early game, but as the long game settked in we started to blast those ties one by one.. in my match against him I took 2 in one turn leaving him with just one tie and the patrol leader, who was fairly shot up...good times and fun had by all...

I'm planning on running a similar list in a store tournament this weekend.

At regionals, I ran a Lambda Omicron pilot with Gunner, plus Howlrunner and a few APs. The idea was for the shuttle to snipe phantoms and interceptors: while the mini-swarm blocked, or took down large ships. It worked very well. My problem was keeping the shuttle in arc: once the enemy got behind it, it was toast.

Now I'm thinking of swapping the shuttle for a decimator, purely for the turret.

Patrol Leader + Gunner

Howlrunner

Academy Pilot x3

Personally I don't like Vader on an expensive ship (like a decimator with a gunner): that extra crit is good, but you pay for it with two damage every time. I prefer Vader on a cheap Omicron shuttle.

The idea with a gunner deci Vader is that should you face a soontir list, your opponent has pretty much lost the game to you as soon as pairings are announced.

I've played epic games before where someone tries to power squad and goes for soontir or whisper and someone else has a decivader and they've already lost it.

If you're going for a good lambda and tie list, you could go 6x TIEs, Lambda + Gunner + FCS. One point short of Vader, you could probably cut a TIE to get Howl and free up points for Vader.

The idea with a gunner deci Vader is that should you face a soontir list, your opponent has pretty much lost the game to you as soon as pairings are announced.

If you're going for a good lambda and tie list, you could go 6x TIEs, Lambda + Gunner + FCS. One point short of Vader, you could probably cut a TIE to get Howl and free up points for Vader.

I'm thinking of trying your OP list in the store tournament this weekend. I don't have Engine Upgrade, so I'll swap it for a Rebel Captive at 99pts. Thanks for showing me the merits of this list... I'll let you know how it goes!

Your biggest enemy in this list: The clock.

Vs another Pancake list, you have an advantage if you fight to the death.
They have the advantage if it's "Points killed by Time".

Thought I'd give you guys an update, following the spring tournament on Saturday. Only 12 players, and very laid back: many players said they were flying lists they hadn't used before... including me!

Patrol Leader + Gunner + Vader

Obsidian Squadron Pilot x4

Strategy going in was to throw the Decimator forward as bait (turrets don’t care if they’re being chased); and hold the TIE swarm back for a turn, before flanking the enemy.

Round 1

Scum: Kath, Boba

I made the mistake of using Vader to help strip away Kath's shields, instead of saving him to deal proper critical hits. Combined with damage from the Firesprays, this left my Decimator with 1 hull point. I should have been patient, and let my Gunner and swarm strip the shields: but I panicked in the face of two Scum Firesprays (and who can blame me?). This meant I reduced Kath to low hull, but did the same to my Decimator. My opponent did say it was a tough call: perhaps it truly was best to deal as much damage as early as possible, when facing his list. Will need to think about this.

A bleeding-out Decimator is a pinata of victory points. I cunningly sent it zooming away around the edge of the board, to deny the points. Fortunately this drew Boba (and his mines, and pilot ability) away from my swarm. Unfortunately, he caught and killed my Decimator: but this did take at least four turns; thanks to me keeping distance and obstacles between us.

The swarm got Kath down to a single hull point, I think. Happily, I was able to position my TIEs so that Kath’s damage was spread amongst them. Ultimately though, Kath's rear arc is no place to be. I was reluctant to take the time to break off and attack from the sides, because Boba was turning round to get back in the game. Sure enough, he did, and my swarm was taken out without managing to finish off Kath. 100-0 to him.

Edit: Actually, considering I rose to table 2 for the third round, I must have destroyed Kath in the end, for a modified loss.

Fundamentally, I don’t know how to deal with two 50-point monsters: either dual Scum Firesprays, or dual IG-88s. That’s something for me to look into.

Round 2

Scum: StarViper, ZZY

I hadn’t met this opponent before, and he said he had only been playing for a few months. He obligingly sent his tooled-up StarViper on an assassination run after my Decimator. He didn’t know the awesome power of Vader and his furry friend, and I think they destroyed the StarViper in the first round of fire. This broke his confidence, and then it was just a matter of using pack-hunter tactics with my TIEs, to surround and pick off his budget Y-Wing and Z95s. The Decimator helped out, and reduced itself to 3 hull points: so again went on a victory lap around the edge of the board. He took out a TIE, so a modified win to me.

My opponent was clearly upset to have been blind-sided by the Decivader in the early game (lack of experience/research), and I think he flew like defeat was a foregone conclusion from that point on (so much psychology in this game). He was a great sportsman though, and we had a laugh about the times we’ve both been caught out by killer combos at tournaments. He’ll never let me do this to him again…!

Round 3

Imperial: Soontir Fel, Oicunn

Somehow I’d managed to rise to the second table! I knew my opponent for this game, and he is an experienced and skilled player: **** his eyes. Fortunately, Pancake + Dodger is the type of squad that my list is built to counter.

I set up my ships at the southwest, and he placed in the opposite corner. I flew my TIEs straight forward, and played dumb by banking my Decimator northeast: into a corridor through the obstacle field (3 asteroids, 3 debris). Soontir took the bait, and boosted into the Tunnel of Terror to meet me. My Decimator proceeded to Gunner/Vader Soontir’s evading, double-focused ass to death: leaving this opponent as surprised as my last one. Interceptor/Phantom players who have invested in Scum, know all about turrets and autothrusters: but some seem to not realise that Gunner and Vader is a counter, with Gunner actually liking autothrusters, the hairy brute. Once again, I was doing well: but mainly because I’d read about stuff on the internet, and my opponent hadn’t.

Once actual playing ability came into effect, I was in trouble. My swarm started stripping Oicunn’s shields; while my Decimator emerged from the asteroid field, and started handing out crits. I forgot that I should keep my swarm at a distance from Oicunn, who was loaded with abilities to deal damage at short range. He windmilled through my swarm, and then started chasing my wounded Decimator. The game went to time, and in the remaining seconds, he managed to finish me off. I couldn’t even force us to bump, and just ride out the clock: because Oicunn loves to cuddle. A real nail-biter of a game!

I defeated Soontir by means of a sucker punch: but he went on to manouvere Oicunn properly, while I fed my TIEs to him. Lovely to see the more skilled player win, despite my underhand tactics. Partial win to my opponent.

Round 4

Imperial: Vader Doomshuttle, Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics, Mauler Mithel + Swarm Tactics, 1 Obsidian Squadron Pilot, 2 Academy Pilots.

My old nemesis: a guy half my age, who plays for fluff before buff. He was wearing his cosplay Mandalorian helmet, to psych-out his opponents. A true legend! We tend to try weird lists out on each other, but he’s been honing his shuttle list for tournaments all year. I consider myself to be marginally better at this game, so I was confident going in.

Unfortunately, I was tired at this point, and I played right into his hands. I set up in the southeast corner, and he set up in the northeast. At this point, I should have bugged my Decimator out to the northwest; let him take the bait; and then chased him with my TIEs. After all, our lists are similar: this way, his Vader and high-skill TIEs wouldn’t have a firing arc on my swarm; but my turreted Vader and tailing TIEs would.

Unfortunately I didn’t take the time to think, and just barrelled forward into his sights. His whole squad stripped my Decimator’s shields. My TIEs tried to do the same, while my Vader took out Howlrunner, to weaken his swarm.

Then we all bumped into each other for a couple of turns. He Vadered my weakened Decimator, and his swarm took out my lower-skill pilots. It was all over in about four turns, half an hour, all in his corner of the board. I shouldn’t have engaged him in a straight-up brawl, but taken the time to lead him on a chase. 100-1 win to my opponent, which I believe pushed his overall score up so that he won a dice bag. Pretty nifty!

Conclusion

I think this is a terrific list, and is my best shot at competing in the current meta. That is, without going down the two-ship list, e.g. Decimator + Phantom: which is a playstyle I’d like to see less of.

Thanks to the OP for posting the thread: I’d already come up with the core of the list on my own, but I hadn’t thought to upgrade the Academy Pilots to Obsidian Squadron Pilots. I now think this is essential. Usually I like to be as cheap as possible with my TIEs. But in this list, those four points mean my TIEs have the same pilot skill as the Decimator. They can therefore shoot first, and strip away an enemy's shields: before allowing Gunner/Vader to deliver the coup de grace. This only hit home with me during this tournament.

I am thinking that there might now be a closing window of opportunity to fly this list. Once the Raider comes out, Vader will be piloting his own ship again: not riding shotgun. I plan to make the most of this time, and use the list in a couple of organised play events in the next months. Good times!

Your biggest enemy in this list: The clock.

Vs another Pancake list, you have an advantage if you fight to the death.

They have the advantage if it's "Points killed by Time".

And so 'twas proved during this tourney, good sir knight. :*(

Thought I'd give you guys an update, following the spring tournament on Saturday. Only 12 players, and very laid back: many players said they were flying lists they hadn't used before... including me!

Patrol Leader + Gunner + Vader

Obsidian Squadron Pilot x4

Strategy going in was to throw the Decimator forward as bait (turrets don’t care if they’re being chased); and hold the TIE swarm back for a turn, before flanking the enemy.

Round 1

Scum: Kath, Boba

I made the mistake of using Vader to help strip away Kath's shields, instead of saving him to deal proper critical hits. Combined with damage from the Firesprays, this left my Decimator with 1 hull point. I should have been patient, and let my Gunner and swarm strip the shields: but I panicked in the face of two Scum Firesprays (and who can blame me?). This meant I reduced Kath to low hull, but did the same to my Decimator. My opponent did say it was a tough call: perhaps it truly was best to deal as much damage as early as possible, when facing his list. Will need to think about this.

A bleeding-out Decimator is a pinata of victory points. I cunningly sent it zooming away around the edge of the board, to deny the points. Fortunately this drew Boba (and his mines, and pilot ability) away from my swarm. Unfortunately, he caught and killed my Decimator: but this did take at least four turns; thanks to me keeping distance and obstacles between us.

The swarm got Kath down to a single hull point, I think. Happily, I was able to position my TIEs so that Kath’s damage was spread amongst them. Ultimately though, Kath's rear arc is no place to be. I was reluctant to take the time to break off and attack from the sides, because Boba was turning round to get back in the game. Sure enough, he did, and my swarm was taken out without managing to finish off Kath. 100-0 to him.

Fundamentally, I don’t know how to deal with two 50-point monsters: either dual Scum Firesprays, or dual IG-88s. That’s something for me to look into.

Round 2

Scum: StarViper, ZZY

I hadn’t met this opponent before, and he said he had only been playing for a few months. He obligingly sent his tooled-up StarViper on an assassination run after my Decimator. He didn’t know the awesome power of Vader and his furry friend, and I think they destroyed the StarViper in the first round of fire. This broke his confidence, and then it was just a matter of using pack-hunter tactics with my TIEs, to surround and pick off his budget Y-Wing and Z95s. The Decimator helped out, and reduced itself to 3 hull points: so again went on a victory lap around the edge of the board. He took out a TIE, so a modified win to me.

My opponent was clearly upset to have been blind-sided by the Decivader in the early game (lack of experience/research), and I think he flew like defeat was a foregone conclusion from that point on (so much psychology in this game). He was a great sportsman though, and we had a laugh about the times we’ve both been caught out by killer combos at tournaments. He’ll never let me do this to him again…!

Round 3

Imperial: Soontir Fel, Oicunn

Somehow I’d managed to rise to the second table! I knew my opponent for this game, and he is an experienced and skilled player: **** his eyes. Fortunately, Pancake + Dodger is the type of squad that my list is built to counter.

I set up my ships at the southwest, and he placed in the opposite corner. I flew my TIEs straight forward, and played dumb by banking my Decimator northeast: into a corridor through the obstacle field (3 asteroids, 3 debris). Soontir took the bait, and boosted into the Tunnel of Terror to meet me. My Decimator proceeded to Gunner/Vader Soontir’s evading, double-focused ass to death: leaving this opponent as surprised as my last one. Interceptor/Phantom players who have invested in Scum, know all about turrets and autothrusters: but some seem to not realise that Gunner and Vader is a counter, with Gunner actually liking autothrusters, the hairy brute. Once again, I was doing well: but mainly because I’d read about stuff on the internet, and my opponent hadn’t.

Once actual playing ability came into effect, I was in trouble. My swarm started stripping Oicunn’s shields; while my Decimator emerged from the asteroid field, and started handing out crits. I forgot that I should keep my swarm at a distance from Oicunn, who was loaded with abilities to deal damage at short range. He windmilled through my swarm, and then started chasing my wounded Decimator. The game went to time, and in the remaining seconds, he managed to finish me off. I couldn’t even force us to bump, and just ride out the clock: because Oicunn loves to cuddle. A real nail-biter of a game!

I defeated Soontir by means of a sucker punch: but he went on to manouvere Oicunn properly, while I fed my TIEs to him. Lovely to see the more skilled player win, despite my underhand tactics. Partial win to my opponent.

Round 4

Imperial: Vader Doomshuttle, Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics, Mauler Mithel + Swarm Tactics, 1 Obsidian Squadron Pilot, 2 Academy Pilots.

My old nemesis: a guy half my age, who plays for fluff before buff. He was wearing his cosplay Mandalorian helmet, to psych-out his opponents. A true legend! We tend to try weird lists out on each other, but he’s been honing his shuttle list for tournaments all year. I consider myself to be marginally better at this game, so I was confident going in.

Unfortunately, I was tired at this point, and I played right into his hands. I set up in the southeast corner, and he set up in the northeast. At this point, I should have bugged my Decimator out to the northwest; let him take the bait; and then chased him with my TIEs. After all, our lists are similar: this way, his Vader and high-skill TIEs wouldn’t have a firing arc on my swarm; but my turreted Vader and tailing TIEs would.

Unfortunately I didn’t take the time to think, and just barrelled forward into his sights. His whole squad stripped my Decimator’s shields. My TIEs tried to do the same, while my Vader took out Howlrunner, to weaken his swarm.

Then we all bumped into each other for a couple of turns. He Vadered my weakened Decimator, and his swarm took out my lower-skill pilots. It was all over in about four turns, half an hour, all in his corner of the board. I shouldn’t have engaged him in a straight-up brawl, but taken the time to lead him on a chase. 100-1 win to my opponent, which I believe pushed his overall score up so that he won a dice bag. Pretty nifty!

Conclusion

I think this is a terrific list, and is my best shot at competing in the current meta. That is, without going down the two-ship list, e.g. Decimator + Phantom: which is a playstyle I’d like to see less of.

Thanks to the OP for posting the thread: I’d already come up with the core of the list on my own, but I hadn’t thought to upgrade the Academy Pilots to Obsidian Squadron Pilots. I now think this is essential. Usually I like to be as cheap as possible with my TIEs. But in this list, those four points mean my TIEs have the same pilot skill as the Decimator. They can therefore shoot first, and strip away an enemy's shields: before allowing Gunner/Vader to deliver the coup de grace. This only hit home with me during this tournament.

I am thinking that there might now be a closing window of opportunity to fly this list. Once the Raider comes out, Vader will be piloting his own ship again: not riding shotgun. I plan to make the most of this time, and use the list in a couple of organised play events in the next months. Good times!

Good observation about Obsidians being able to strip shields for Vader, hadn't thought of that.

As people continue to play nothing but obnoxious fat turrets and Dual Aggressors, engine upgrade isn't as useful, especially at PS 3, which is meaningless in a meta dominated by 2 ship lists with 6+ PS no matter what.

Has anyone tried a BSP with Wingman to fly behind the shuttle? He strips stress from the zero move and acts as a rear guard to keep the shuttle's back side clear.

I've tried and I much prefer taking adv. sensors and a green manoeuvre.

And I prefer fielding a Patrol Leader with Fleet Officer (or even better, just Vader) over a shuttle.

I've tried and I much prefer taking adv. sensors and a green manoeuvre.

And I prefer fielding a Patrol Leader with Fleet Officer (or even better, just Vader) over a shuttle.

Shuttle + Adv Sensors + Fleet Officer is quite lovely as well.

Get to clear the stress from FO the turn you earned it.

Also have access to the "Nope" button.

I've tried and I much prefer taking adv. sensors and a green manoeuvre.

And I prefer fielding a Patrol Leader with Fleet Officer (or even better, just Vader) over a shuttle.

Shuttle + Adv Sensors + Fleet Officer is quite lovely as well.

Get to clear the stress from FO the turn you earned it.

Also have access to the "Nope" button.

That 'nope button' trick is just sick! Use it before it's FAQ'd!

I've tried and I much prefer taking adv. sensors and a green manoeuvre.

And I prefer fielding a Patrol Leader with Fleet Officer (or even better, just Vader) over a shuttle.

Shuttle + Adv Sensors + Fleet Officer is quite lovely as well.

Get to clear the stress from FO the turn you earned it.

Also have access to the "Nope" button.

That 'nope button' trick is just sick! Use it before it's FAQ'd!

It can't be FAQ'd, without changing a fundamental rule in the game.

So I played the 4 Obsidian variant. Definitely good, it's not too bad against Dual Aggressors either.

Still have yet to play it against a Deci Soontir/Phantom which it was designed to counter, but on paper it's not too bad.

What I'd be worried about would be super corran and chewy. Your 4 TIEs can't really deal with corran or their pancake should you lose your deci and they lose one of their ships. But on the other hand, gunner Vader might be able to push you over that last damage or two hump to end up killing Corran. IDK, dumb broken **** where a 48/50-60 point ship ends up being able to reliably solo down more than its own point value in small ships.

You might be better off just going straight 5 Academies and the patrol leader. **** it.

I will try today

Kenkirk + Gunner + Fleet Officer

Academy

Academy

Academy

Academy

My reasoning is that if Kenkirk is targeted, it should last a bit and hopefully the ties will do enough damage. If the swarm is targeted, the extra focus will help nicely in its defense and gunner will rip.

Edit: spelling

Definitely agree with dropping EU so that Academy Pilots are promoted to Obsidian.

PS3 EU is not super useful, but being able to save your GunnerVader shots until after all your TIEs have fired might make huge differences.

I think having all your pilots at the same skill gives you a certain amount of elegance and freedom that often goes underrated. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But sometimes it makes all the difference.

Definitely agree with dropping EU so that Academy Pilots are promoted to Obsidian.

PS3 EU is not super useful, but being able to save your GunnerVader shots until after all your TIEs have fired might make huge differences.

I think having all your pilots at the same skill gives you a certain amount of elegance and freedom that often goes underrated. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But sometimes it makes all the difference.

One point per TIE is a cheap price to pay to shut-down the incredibly popular Predator.

Definitely agree with dropping EU so that Academy Pilots are promoted to Obsidian.

PS3 EU is not super useful, but being able to save your GunnerVader shots until after all your TIEs have fired might make huge differences.

I think having all your pilots at the same skill gives you a certain amount of elegance and freedom that often goes underrated. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But sometimes it makes all the difference.

One point per TIE is a cheap price to pay to partially shut-down the incredibly popular Predator.

Fixed.

I will try todayKenkirk + Gunner + Fleet OfficerAcademyAcademyAcademyAcademyMy reasoning is that if Kenkirk is targeted, it should last a bit and hopefully the ties will do enough damage. If the swarm is targeted, the extra focus will help nicely in its defense and gunner will rip.Edit: spelling

So I tried this yesterday. Although I managed to beat my son's BBBY squad, it was mainly because of errors on his part and bad luck with dice. Only kenkirk was there in the end, with 8 hull left. I did not use tactician, so I think that'll be dropped.

What I'd be worried about would be super corran and chewy. Your 4 TIEs can't really deal with corran or their pancake should you lose your deci and they lose one of their ships. But on the other hand, gunner Vader might be able to push you over that last damage or two hump to end up killing Corran.

I played a tournament earlier this week, and faced Corran + Dash. Obsidians stripped Corran's shields, Gunner and Vader took him out. It took a couple of turns, with shields regenerating.

I think my opponent - who went to Worlds by the way, and is excellent - overextended Corran, assuming I would be smart and leave him til last. Fortunately I hadn't seen Corran before, and didn't realise he was a problem!

Of course, with my Decimator weakened by Vader, his Dash dashed around the board, and made quick work of the rest of my list. Still a 100-45(ish) result.

Six months later...

I've updated this list in light of the Force Awakens releases, and my sweet new Imperial Gunner prize card. I bring you...

'Bad Grandpa'

Patrol Leader + Gunner + Vader

Zeta Squadron Pilot x2

Zeta Leader

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/391660/wave-75-decivader-bad-grandpa

"Show me again the power of the darkness"

"Sure thing kiddo" (fires, takes two hits to deal a crit, fires, takes two hits to deal a crit)

"Oh Grandpa!"

What about this?

Maybe. I don't imagine that you'd be able to kill a Poe with it though.