The shuttles in the old X-wing DOS games had a rear firing cannon.

Not the Lambdas. The assault shuttles do tho

Modification. Lambda Only.

Action: You may immediately attack one ship outside of your firing arc at range 1-2. Attack: 2.

Cost: 2

The Emperor will be pleased...

Personally, I think it would be silly to give the Lambda a rear arc when that would imply that all the guns can fire to the rear. It has eight forward-firing guns. If you divide them by the dice it can roll, that means that the ship's individual guns each carry roughly 0.375 of a die of firepower. Ergo, a rear-facing double laser wouldn't even merit a single attack die on this ship.

The thing flys like a brick. The addition of the rear firing arc would change it from being near worthless as anything but a scarficial Vader transport to a large base ship that can actually contribute in combat.

Heck, jump the base point cost by 5. I'd take it.

Why bother adding the the rear turret to the model at all if it's only decorative?

Only the later model Y-Wings (Dueces) had the turrets. The older ones had the cannon but were forward facing only.

If balance is your reason how about how every Rebel ship has the ability to use missles or torps but only 3 of the small imperial ones can? ALL of which are ludecrisly expensive compared to an Xwing or Awing.

A missle volley is a heck of an Alpha compared to being "Zippy" like a squint.

The Shuttle has so much potential that could be tapped in to with a rear arc.

you obviously haven't done adv sensors gunner tact EU on a shuttle

I think the Attack value of a ship is just an abstraction. Sure, a ship may have a lot of guns, but they may not be as powerful as other ships, and as mentioned, might not be able to bring them to bear, so to speak.

To me, the Lambda has 3 attack value because of the number of guns compared to the poor maneuverability. Sure, it's blasting with 8 cannons, but the likelihood of getting a hit with all the cannons is pretty slim. Kinda like Autoblasters, just not as short ranged or limited.

And thats not even considering...you know...that it's a game.

They probably tested it and decided against it.

I would have loved a small 90 degree arc for the rear gun with 2 attack. It would have given you slightly better utility and an enemy couldn't just get in behind you without having some concern. Oh well.

This is the most frustrating thing to me.

The shuttle needs the aux arc that the Firespray has.

The Firespray needs the optional anti-pursuit lasers.

Anything else is as insane as flying a ship with it's wings in the up position.

I would have loved a small 90 degree arc for the rear gun with 2 attack. It would have given you slightly better utility and an enemy couldn't just get in behind you without having some concern. Oh well.

Shouldn't that arc be less than 90, since the primary one is like 88 or so.

The rear turret should have been a shuttle only mod that gives a 2 dice attack with range 1-2 that can fire each round in addition to the one attack the shuttle already gets. (If that's OP then just use it like any other secondary weapon). It doesn't get extra dice cause it's a secondary weapon, and it's not a 'turret' upgrade so we aren't giving the shuttle a turret slot. And you don't have to fiddle with auxiliary arcs or anything.

DekoPuma:

A Phantom has 3 Laser Cannons and shoots for 4

Nitpick. Phantoms have 5 cannons.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/ph_phantom

5 attack dice would be nuttythough.

The aft retractable ArMek R-T0 twin blaster cannon is more likely an anti-personnel weapon, intended to be used to clear landing sites during the ship's role as a military transport. You know that cool autocannon that drops out of the bottom of the Millennium Falcon just before leaving Hoth and that never is seen during space combat? Also a blaster cannon (as opposed to the laser cannons mounted on the front of the Lambda and on the Falcon's turrets).

Blaster<laser<turbolaser<super laser

Roughly. The LAAT had an antipersonnel blaster in the act position for clearing the LZ as well.

Game balance does NOT equal lore fluff etc etc

Yes this.

But also fluff trumps fluff and yet more fluff trumps fluff and on and on.

What Im trying to point out here is star wars fluff is a mess.

George Lucus' only ever concern was money NOT consistency.

"give me money, do what you like" was pretty much his motto

Eg the Y-Wing was the main space superiority fighter of the clone wars in the original fluff, then video game company X comes along and goes "here is money, now the Y-wing is a bomber" next Lucus decides he will make more money by making new ships for the PT so out goes the Y-Wing and in with bla bla bla ships

Also if you actually watch CHAPTER IV A New Hope then you can clearly see that the Y-Wing has a turret .

You see it in the hanger

The thing flys like a brick. The addition of the rear firing arc would change it from being near worthless as anything but a scarficial Vader transport to a large base ship that can actually contribute in combat.

.

If you actually think that then you clearly need more practice with it because it's a beast.

You should look up SableGryphon Lambda flight school thread.

MajorJuggler has nicely compiled heaps of handy topics in that sticky thread at the top of the main x-wing forum.

Han Solo as written by Brian Daly (paraphrasing) 'those ships are 20 years old, you're gonna die in one of those' (talking to Luke before the rebels assault the DS) he also states the life expectancy of a pilot on combat, especially a rookie, is a minute or two. That was from the Radio Drama, an awesome production that every fans of he OT should take to heart. Of course Han's speech is lifted almost word for word from his speech to the outlaw techs in Stars End. Either way it showed back in 1980 that the Z-95 and at last the Y-wing (and maybe the x-wing too) were old by the time of Yavin, and that they were probably surplus from the previous wars. Some of that was carried over to the rest of the EU, but the X became a much newer ship that was just a prototype a year or two before Episode 4.

The thing flys like a brick. The addition of the rear firing arc would change it from being near worthless as anything but a scarficial Vader transport to a large base ship that can actually contribute in combat.

.

If you actually think that then you clearly need more practice with it because it's a beast.

You should look up SableGryphon Lambda flight school thread.

MajorJuggler has nicely compiled heaps of handy topics in that sticky thread at the top of the main x-wing forum.

The op reads of someone who doesn't know how to fly the shuttle.

The thing is a beast when flown well, certainly it's a bargain at 20 something points, if you gave it a rear arc you would need to raise the points, do that and it would be competiting with the firespray. Which would always be better due to the dial.

The Interceptor is in a similar situation to the Phantom and Defender, it has 4 wing guns for 3 dice but also has two chin guns (that are not missile launchers in this game), but I guess those two extra guns aren't used or are just hard points, despite looking just like the guns on the Fighters and Advanced.

As has been previously explained, it's because the Interceptor basically uses the same hull as the Fighter, but the Fighter's gun ports aren't connected to anything.

Depends what you use it for.

After all, the Firespray can't obtain target locks from anywhere on the table, then pass those locks to a nearby flight of Bombers/Punishers.

The Interceptor is in a similar situation to the Phantom and Defender, it has 4 wing guns for 3 dice but also has two chin guns (that are not missile launchers in this game), but I guess those two extra guns aren't used or are just hard points, despite looking just like the guns on the Fighters and Advanced.

As has been previously explained, it's because the Interceptor basically uses the same hull as the Fighter, but the Fighter's gun ports aren't connected to anything.

if you gave it a rear arc you would need to raise the points, do that and it would be competiting with the firespray. Which would always be better due to the dial.

Depends what you use it for.

After all, the Firespray can't obtain target locks from anywhere on the table, then pass those locks to a nearby flight of Bombers/Punishers.

Or gain multiple TLs across the board with the right crew and let Col Vessery pick and choose who he wants to HLC.

Been getting a lot of flak for apparently not being able to fly the thing.

I've flown the "mighty beast" in casual play and tourney play. I really want it to be worth the points. But you end up with two strats. Skirt the endge and hope they over look you (thus loosing any forward shots) or fly it behind the rest of the squad and hope your oppenent doesnt know enough to get behind it.

I have never lost to a shuttle build because of the rear blind spot and crappy dial. If you know enough to put stress on the thing the big beast goes down in flames every time.

Ive flown them barebones Vader and fully loaded. Ive used them with bombers and fighters. The best build Ive found is pared with a Decimator.

The rear blind spot and inability to turn makes it a giant sacrificial cow.

But then this is the internet and my win/loss record has the same merit as my epeen/achi points on WoW.
Take that as you will.

On the Ywings: George Lucas. Nuff said

On damage per cannon: Thank you for the corrections on the number of guns on things. It's still wonky to me. 8 guns on a shuttle do as much as four of the very same guns on a turret?

I like the comprimise of giving it the option of a turret upgrade. That seems balanced and well thought out. It wont ever happen but I applaud you ideas.

On Ol' Palpy: I dont know about you but for 8 points and 2 crew slots i never intend to put him on something as sloppy as a shuttle unless it's a senario. He will have a permenant home on my Decimator.

On the rear arc taking over space for the Firespray: WTH do the Imperials have the Firespray anyway? In the lore it's a niche ship used by planetary security and a couple bounty hunters. Let the scum have it because it belongs to them.

Keep the discussion going all. I really like reading you ideas.