So....lets talk about the White Star Mammoth (Lambda Class Shuttle).

My question is this: If the actual ship has a rear facing turret (seriously! Look at the back) why leave out that ability/ upgrade on the card?

If the Firespray is allowed to have an Auxillary Firing Arc and the K Wing has a bottom mounted light laser cannon why is what could arguably be one of the best Imperial ships in the fleet not allowed to use a weapon it obviously has?

Y-wing has a turret slot but no visible turret. Firespray MIGHT be able to swivle it's guns around but it gets an Auxillary Firing Arc.

But no love for the Ivory Void Behemoth.

Thoughts?

Because gameplay.

Also, the Y-Wing has a (tiny) turret right on top of its cockpit.

Game balance does NOT equal lore fluff etc etc

They did explain it in the cards: anti-pursuit lasers.

The thing flys like a brick. The addition of the rear firing arc would change it from being near worthless as anything but a scarficial Vader transport to a large base ship that can actually contribute in combat.

Heck, jump the base point cost by 5. I'd take it.

Why bother adding the the rear turret to the model at all if it's only decorative?

Only the later model Y-Wings (Dueces) had the turrets. The older ones had the cannon but were forward facing only.

If balance is your reason how about how every Rebel ship has the ability to use missles or torps but only 3 of the small imperial ones can? ALL of which are ludecrisly expensive compared to an Xwing or Awing.

A missle volley is a heck of an Alpha compared to being "Zippy" like a squint.

The Shuttle has so much potential that could be tapped in to with a rear arc.

Yeah, I think the idea is that it's such a pathetic weapon that it's not even valued at 1 attack die. It probably lacks a full suite of targeting computers, etc and is probably just for show.

Gameplay wise, it might overlap with the FIrespray if it had a rear arc...either it is the same ship with an extra crew slot and slightly worse dial, or you'd have to come up with special rules about the rear arc being less effective.

As much fluffy love I have for the Lambda, I think they did right by having APL's represent the rear gun.

Ywings in the clone wars had turrets that could swing 360...

Shirako: You are correct. Im going on the stuff that is no longer cannon. Before Disney they didnt have Ywings in the Clone Wars. /end old man rant

I dont know, the APL just seems like a cop-out. That little rear gun is just as big as the forward facing ones.

Let the Pirate Scum have the Firespray. Just so long as it doesnt go to the Rebel Scum it doesnt really matter to me. But that is a different rant.

The slower than heck dial and a points jump of like 5 would more than make up for the added utility.

Only the later model Y-Wings (Dueces) had the turrets. The older ones had the cannon but were forward facing only.

Have you heard of the BTL-A4 title for Y-Wings?

I'm really confused as to what you're trying to accomplish here.

ObiWonka: See above. Also, I dont play Rebels I just beat them. Forgive me if the titles are unknown to me.

Also, Im not really trying to accomplish anything save for a discussion. It's not as if FFG will change it but for those of us that see the possibilites in the shuttle this kind of thing is enfuriating.

It is what it is but we can dream.

Yeah, those poor Imperial ships that can't take missiles or torpedoes, which everyone knows are one of the most effective weapons in the game!

It's to differentiate ships for game play purposes. And you're crazy if you think the small rear guns are as powerful as the various front facing weaponry.

I always thought a 2 attack 60* rear firing arc on the shuttle would have been cool. Maybe on the episode 7 shuttle

A reading from 1st Palpatine. Letters to the scum rebels.
(Wookiepedia Entry)

The Lambda-class T-4a shuttle was developed for use in the starfleet of Sheev Palpatine's Galactic Empire. It had three wings: one tall, dorsal stabilizer that remained stationary, and two lower wings that would extend during flight and fold upward for landing. Its shape was considered elegant and a departure from the Empire's usually crude designs. A well-armed vessel, the Lambda-class T-4a shuttle was mounted with two forward-facing double laser cannons, two wing-mounted double cannons, and a rear-facing double laser cannon. It was also equipped with a hyperdrive. A multi-purpose transport, that shuttle was used for ferrying cargo as well as transporting personnel. Even the Empire's cream of the crop, including Emperor Palpatine himself and his Sith apprentice Darth Vader, travelled in their private Lambda-class T-4a shuttles.^[2]

^Amen

Yeah, I think the idea is that it's such a pathetic weapon that it's not even valued at 1 attack die. It probably lacks a full suite of targeting computers, etc and is probably just for show.

Well, unless ol' Palpy is manning it, of course.

THEN it's a pure crit-dealing monster that the enemy cannot dodge.

So you're saying that the forward firepower is four times as strong as the rear firepower? That would make the power of the rear arc somewhere between 0 & 1 red die.

DekoPuma: The firepower scale of this game is wonky as heck to start. The Xwing for example has 4 "Laser Cannons" and shoots for 3.
A Phantom has 3 Laser Cannons and shoots for 4

The Decimator has two Quad Laser Cannon Turrets (two banks of four laser cannons) and shoots for 3.

The shuttle has 2 double laser cannons (so 4 guns) AND 2 wing mounted Double Cannons (another 4 guns) for a total of 8 barrels of forward facing energy badassery and shoots for 3.

I see no reason why a double Laser Cannon Turret (rear facing) upgrade card couldnt shoot for at least a 2.

Yep. The Lambda-shuttle has 8 fore and 2 aft laser cannons. And although that's not really the same thing as having a turret, it's still not reflected by the ships in game stats.

I thought it would be cool if you could equip a turret upgrade - but this turret would be restricted to the rear arc - which only exist when you have a turret equipped.

Because at some point FFG may want to make this...

The lambda shuttle cardboard ship tokens are already printed and they show no rear arc. So it is hard to determine if someone is on the rear arc where there is none printed.

Also, if new ship tokens would be released with a rear auxiliary arc, that would allow the shuttle to shoot its primary weapon from it's auxiliary arc, that would be a) wrong and b) too much like the Firespray, c) would require people to acquire these new ship tokens.

If the lambda is to have a rear turret, it should be a special secondary weapon, probably attack 3 limited at range 1-2, or range 1-3 with 2 attack. Something clearly worse than the frontal primary, and than the Firespray rear arc.

The problem is again, that without a printed arc, it's hard to know if something is in arc. But it cannot have a printed arc because then it could shoot the primary backwards. So the arc should be something non standard. Maybe a 180 degree arc, range 1-2, that is counted from the back side of the ship's base. The range ruler could be used to determine where this arc starts, by flushing it to the back ends of the base sides.

Then, a single upgrade card and Rules Card would be needed to be printed. No need for ship base tokens, no need for rules rewrite considering auxiliary arcs and primary weapons.

Now, how you price a rear 180 range 1-2 arc weapon that attacks with 2 or 3? In the neighborhood of 7 points or so?

Well it does seem kinda funny that the shuttle does not have an auxilary firing arc. I guess they wanted to keep it in a support role, and they figured the Firespray should be the only ship with a rear auxilary firing arc and that is enough.

As for the guns in the back they gave it a small upgrade (that will never get chosen over EU) and use it to make attacks. I think there is a slim chance that Emperor palpatine might get on the rear guns but that also depends on how it is used.

the shuttle is already over powered giving it a rear firing arc would make it broken and with the emperor crew card coming out

the shuttle is already over powered giving it a rear firing arc would make it broken and with the emperor crew card coming out

True. The 4 Shuttle lists are dominating the meta. A rear arc would make players to trash all other models. The Emperor card would guarantee immediate victory. Competitive scene would be utterly jeopardized.

the shuttle is already over powered giving it a rear firing arc would make it broken and with the emperor crew card coming out

I am painting my shuttles dark blue with fire flames on the wings and calling them Missile Boats, because basically that is how overpowered they feel in this game already.

TIE Fighter, A-wing: 2 guns, 2 red dice

x-wing, 4 guns, 3 dice

Phantom, 5 guns (remember the chin guns), 4 dice.

Defender, 4 guns (the top two are ions and the chin 'guns' are missile launchers), 3 dice. HLC gives 4 dice, sort of representing using to top two guns as lasers for 6 total guns

So, a pretty obvious progression.

The HWK gets screwed becAuse the two big guns it has is treated like a turret and they have it a primary of just one die. Oops.

The Interceptor is in a similar situation to the Phantom and Defender, it has 4 wing guns for 3 dice but also has two chin guns (that are not missile launchers in this game), but I guess those two extra guns aren't used or are just hard points, despite looking just like the guns on the Fighters and Advanced. Also, on the movie models there's two sets of two extra guns each on either wing, in the gap between the pointy blades. That would make it eight or ten guns depending if the chin ones worked as well. Yet still just 3 dice and no cannon upgrade. Perhaps the number of guns is just a loose guide and it really matters how effectively you can bring those guns to bare. After all the scum Special K has two guns and has 3 dice. Maybe the Phantom is just more effective in making its shots count too.

So the shuttle having only 3 dice isn't that weird I guess, I don't see it being able to bring all those guns on one small target effectively when it can't turn any better than a blimp. I do wish there was a rear gun of some kind besides the Anti Pursuit Laser, but at least we have that. Giving those two rear guns 3 dice would have been silly, and a turret slot would not have been desirable.