I like No.5 a lot.

Half of my group are regular friends, the other half I see only at these sessions. The option to throw the towel in isn't really there or something that I want to exercise though I do understand this. My friend, who is a PC in my game, had been GM for a few years and just gave advance notice of his intention not to GM. He was just spent at turning up and running sessions which became a "me versus them" and arguments galore. We have our fare share of arguments recently though I am not at that stage yet. I can hold my own and, if needed, I will put my foot down as the RAW is littered with statements on how it is down to the GMs discretion.

But I like No.5...... that would be funny.

OOH and laughs abound when they decide to hack an imperial computer, and in the "New email" folder, received just 5 min ago is the wanted posters with their faces on them.

Better yet, would be having their names at the top as the intended recipients. Maybe with a live link to the hovering holocamera that is watching them right now. Which happens to be hovering right next to the Inquisitor, who is also watching them right now.

I should have seen the „railroad commentary“ coming. But that was my own fault to be so vague in my reasoning.

Please let me sum up, how my commentary was meant and how it can help you, when the others shouldn´t work. Because I am convinced it might help you in the long term and it is not more reailroady than the other ideas.

When I got a minor or major problem with my game, I always try to get my players on the same page. So, I don´t try to teach them a lesson (like: oh, we should have not used the uniforms, because it could go wrong), I try to make them understand my reasoning, why this problem might hurt the game. So, I didn´t want to kill a particular thing, I try to make my players don´t want this thing themselves.

In your particular problem, you have an issue with powergaming, although a rather harmlessly one. So I try to make them understand why powergaming is bad. Why is powergaming bad, i.e. exploiting a universe or an in-game rule? Because it´s boring.

So I try to make them understand why I think it´s boring, rather than making it “harder” or teaching them a lesson (like: see, now you got the imperial officer on your toes. Shouldn´t have used the uniforms over and over!). I see it as more effective, more fun and less railroady. When you throw something creatively at them, your players will certainly know, why you giving them a harder time, because you are not ok with them doing the same stuff over and over again. If you are lucky, they´ll get this message and understand this. If you don´t, they will feel oppositional and just do it again the time after.

When the i.e. overpowered artefact gets abused, you´ll get tips like: “Get rid of it.” or “They see that when it´s get used too often, the universe explodes/ your girlfriend dies/ you´ll get evil”. It is a “narrative approach” to neutralize this artefact, but it didn´t get to the root of the problem: That your players haven´t understood yet, why it´s more fun to not exploit something. So I try not to educate, but to convince them.

Explain it, be transparent, show them your reasoning. Then you get their trust and the notion you are knowing what you are doing, and additionally they will not want to exploit something themselves. And you´ll never ever have problemslike this again for years to come.

Also be sure to note and review when to use Skullduggery vs. deception. I tend to try and use the whole list of skills. If you want to have fake uniforms and papers that to me looks like a Skullduggery check with some knowledge warfare thrown in there and if it works out then you get a boost die (or set back if not) on the eventual deception check to TALK to the NPCs. new GMs tend not to use the whole skill list, it is an easy mistake to make. yes with fake papers you are trying to deceive but the PCs are using practical skills like skullduggery, when the social check comes use deception.

in the game there are a lot of skills that can fit in multiple places, I tend to put them in 3 categories

1) tings you do with your hands Skullduggery in our example

2) things you do with your mind. knowledge checks.

3) things you do with your face. deception in our example.

By taking full advantage of the skill tree and giving each skill a go you fix a few things, First you let the PCs not just use the rolls that have a ton of XP dumped into them. 2 you give more then 1 PC a chance to shin in a single act. having one PC forge the papers and and another slip them by the IMPs you let the whole of your party contribute to the success of the adventure.

so to tie it all up, I can see you using Skullduggery, deception, discipline, vigilance, knowledge warfare, knowledge core worlds , stealth, leadership, charm, and cool all coming into play during a disguised caper. so if the PCs want to use the same trick over and over LET THEM! but use 2 or 3 of the above checks to have them do it. change it up keep them on there toes. and HAVE FUN!

Hope this helps.

Thanks Narr666, that's quite the psychological game to play on the group. I like it.

And Oogy......... that is brilliant. I didn't think of that at all. These characters, coming from the edge of the empire and now joined into the rebellion, just starting at zero reputation and skill mind you, should not have great in-depth knowledge of all that is imperial.

One philosophy I try to apply in my gaming is that "You are not your character and your character is not you". As players we have the movies, comics, books and these books to go by. Along with that there are assumptions, such as "I know how to pretend to be an imp officer, soldier, etc, and I know how they dress and where my ammo pouch goes and where my grenades go and on what side my insignias hang."

When you mentioned skulduggery it was like a Eureka moment. Why of course they should roll skulduggery when they put the armour and officers suits on. Need to see if they succeeded in that part of their pretence. Vigilance is something else I should apply more. Will their resolve break under the pressure of being deep in enemy territory and inside one of the imps command centre for crying out loud. Someone's nerves could crack and that could jeopardise the whole mission.

Inspirational ideas Oogy. Cheers

As a military person I can tell you that it's boggling how many civilians really know very little about the inner workings of the military. Even simple stuff. Everyone get's called soldier regardless of what branch they really are and once you clarify if you're not in the army they either ask you what type of plane you fly (air force) or what type of ship are you on (navy).

I could easily see the characters referring to someone as the wrong type of service and getting called out on it. They'd have to do some serious (very difficult) fast talking there.

Rank confuses the heck out of civilians too. Everyone is a Sergeant or a Captain. That should help trip them up.

I worked in the Pentagon as a civilian for a number of years. On a daily basis, I worked with a variety of military officers, and even a few NCOs.

I got to the point where I could quickly recognize most rank insignia and branch, but nothing beyond that. They might have a parachute pin on their lapel, and I just wouldn’t see it. I mean, it was there, and I could physically see it, but it never registered on my conscious mind. And don’t get me started on what the various ribbons mean.

But even rank wasn’t a given. Naval flag officers in short sleeves were tough, because those stars were in white braid on a yellow braid background, and the contrast wasn’t high. If they were in winter “blues” with their jackets on, that was a lot easier because you could see the one wide stripe and then count the number of narrow stripes next to that. And then crap your pants when you meet the guy with one wide stripe and four narrow ones. Naval officers in khakis were really tough, because I could never tell the difference between that and Marines. And when you’re talking about “Captain So-and-so”, it can be really important to know whether or not they’re in the Navy — and therefore the equivalent of a Colonel in the Army or Air Force.

And Navy NCOs with red stripes on their sleeves versus gold stripes?

If you don’t eat, drink, sleep, and breathe that stuff day-in and day-out — as an insider — for years on end, you just won’t understand. IMO, it is virtually impossible to really understand and know this stuff unless you learned it as an insider.

Glad I can Help! have Fun and let us know how it goes!

If they're so good what's preventing someone targeting them either assuming they're imperials or trying to set them up?

If their credentials are that good wouldn't someone else get the idea of taking them and using them themselves?

Lord imagine if someone duplicated their credentials and was rumbled just as they're about to go on a mission... so they can't use their old covers as they've either been ruined by their theft and misuse or have to try and refrain from revealing too much if they try to continue using them as the Empire comes looking for them to make sure they're who they say they are!

Played in a d6 game where this was done, even mentioned I thought it shouldn't have lasted that long but I wasn't gming it and I was more busy trying to stay alive as the other player was assuming a role as an aid to Darth Vader... yes it was that ridiculous!

How long would such credentials last before they need to be renewed or replaced?

My players use the same gambit fairly often. This week their officer ordered them to take an off the books Imperial base that was part of a power play between a Moff and an Admiral. The officer explained that due to the right security that stealth was recommended.

When they arrived at the destination they simply marched up to the front door in Imperial uniforms and asked to be let in. They rolled adequately on their Deception test so (generously)half of the guards left to report in the request. I indicated this would be a good chance to make a move. Instead they declared they would wait for an officer.

When someone arrived they immediately claimed they were from the "Admiral on an inspection". This caused the guards to sound the alarm, scuttle data and try seize the team thinking their rivals had found them. In panicked confusion the players ran away, abandoning their wounded.

The players were really confused by this and it took several minutes of explanation before they understood. Their officer ended up chewing them out. The two players who usually come up with ideas were absent leaving the more combat focused players with one really insecure Diplomat.

Now that I think about it the last time those two players were missing the group tried the gambit as well, blustering past guards on "orders of the Supervisor" after sneaking in through ducts.

This scheme went south quickly when they escorted a prisoner past a high ranking officer who challenged them. They threatened him with "the Supervisor" again only for the officer to tell them he gave no such orders as called the guards on them. The players panicked and fled, leaving their wounded behind.

As a military person I can tell you that it's boggling how many civilians really know very little about the inner workings of the military. Even simple stuff. Everyone get's called soldier regardless of what branch they really are and once you clarify if you're not in the army they either ask you what type of plane you fly (air force) or what type of ship are you on (navy).

I could easily see the characters referring to someone as the wrong type of service and getting called out on it. They'd have to do some serious (very difficult) fast talking there.

Rank confuses the heck out of civilians too. Everyone is a Sergeant or a Captain. That should help trip them up.

I agree. When we have a recurring but largely cameo player attend a session as the rebel saboteur, Rakine Bokete , she brings with her all sorts of knowledge about Imperial rank, systems, floorplans, etc. This is the stuff a rebel needs to know.

When she was not present and my players found themselves aboard an Imperial ship, they really had no idea where they were in relation to the place they wanted to go.

Rolling checks is good and all, but don't forget the whole roleplay aspect of this. Make it a a part of their dice rolling. "Tell me what you say and then we'll roll your dice" Modify the difficulty based on how they perform in-character. If they really don't understand the difference between in-character, meta and out of character, have a discussion about this. You'll have to be quick on your feet as well, but in the end by working harder to portray the characters you'll all end up having more fun.

Reward creative ideas or excellent in-character speech with boost dice. Add more difficulty for bad ideas and meta-gaming (or boost it bad). You don't have to particularly tell them what you are doing with this... before long they'll be trying to get the extra "fun" dice. Well, you at least HOPE they will. If not, these are not the roleplayers you are looking for...

If you have a person with good ideas, encourage them outside the table to try to get the other more creative. We've had multiple sessions in a row without any violent activity where we were all in the same room discussing tangents or planning for a future event or dealing with problems that arose from our last violent escapade. Luckily my gaming group is half guys / half girls (and all of us are over 30), so our mileage may vary significantly.

I didn't read many of the responses so some of this may be a repeat?

1. ID's and code systems have an expiration date. They need to be updated regularly with access to Imperial resources (computer network?) or they are quickly obsolete.

2. EU I recall mentioned code cyclinders in the pockets of Imperial officers. These could be the items that are perhaps updated to have the proper for security checks.

3. Pumping up the difficulties and hurdles thrown against the PCs shouldn't be met with anger if you do it the right way. You mentioned they used their Imperial guises repeatedly to infiltrate Imperial assets. I'm assuming that this method was discovered after-the-fact in at least one of these missions by the Imperials. So, the word is out that Rebels have used Imperial guises and documents to infiltrate. That alone should add a difficulty die or perhaps an upgrade to their old tasks. Explain why the security is suddenly more paranoid. The Imperials aren't just going to sit back and let this happen over and over. The ISB is going to respond with new security techniques. Perhaps the code cylinders which were updated only once per month are now updated every day. There may be a near endless number of responses by the ISB to this new threat to security:

Example: The identifications/documents used by the PCs in the last adventure have been identified and all security assets have been alterted to to special procedures if they are used. Perhaps they are to note the use, but let the PCs pass as if they have not been discovered as Imperial assets are put in place to capture them as they go about their mission unaware the gig is up.

Example: A brand new security step has been added that the players don't know about. Sure the documents work, but do the players know there has temporarily been added a new verbal pass phrase?

Example: A special ISB team has been put together to track and capture the PCs. They will receive information gathered from the clues left by the PCs during the past and future missions.

If you feel they are abusing this, start enforcing units, not just rank. It also depends on the situation. In a battle situation a private will listen to any captain in the right uniform. At a guard post, you need to be from the right unit, or else the best you get is past the guard post into the CO's office to explain why a member of the 417th Army Battalion is trying to get into a facility operated by the 225th Armor Division.

Then if they start trying to pull odd ranks, like impersonating ISB, high ranking attache inspections, etc., the CO will probably communicate with his superiors, and assign an escort until he receives confirmation from above. (This is where clever PC's do the Mission Impossible move of hacking the comm's and impersonating HQ).

Nice. Or you could make them the VICTIM of rank. If they're impersonating imperial captains or similar, have the parameters change mid-mission. A rebel attack or everyone to be immediately re-deployed to an insurgency on Dantooine. If they want to be imperial officers then MAKE them be imperial officers. They can't back out in front of the platoon of soldiers they're in charge of and they can't disobey their commander who is in frequent communication with them and in the mobile command centre overhead. So what do they do when they suddenly find themselves fighting alongside their imperial brothers and sisters against a vicious rebel assault?

EDIT: I see Desslok came up with more or less this, earlier.

Split the party up. This ain't D&D.

Make it so that the Deception doesn't matter - they need DNA scans, fingerprints, etc. You can't forge those. Han Solo needed a clearance code to land on Endor's Moon. The officer in charge when asked by Vader told him, "It's an older code, sir, but it still checks out. I was about to clear them." He's basically telling us that codes change, and they are time sensitive.

Basically, "I don't CARE if you are the Emperor himself. No one gets in here without proper security clearance. I see that you HAVE security clearance. But it's outdated. If you continue this course of action, I will have no choice but to place you under arrest. In fact, I think I will do this anyway, just to be sure. Trooper - take them to a detention facility at once!"

If they fight - the deception is lost completely. If they allow themselves to be detained, then they have a completely new problem on their hands.

Remember - this isn't about beating mechanics. This is about telling and playing in a great story. Sometimes, the good-guys have to fall so that they remember what they're fighting for.

Not knowing how exactly you run your games, but maybe mix it up a little bit.

That imperial station they think they're going to? just overrun by pirates/rancors during mating season. The rebellion actually has a lot of other things to deal with than the empire, looking for supplies and food, finding political support etc...

Not knowing how exactly you run your games, but maybe mix it up a little bit.

That imperial station they think they're going to? just overrun by pirates/rancors during mating season. The rebellion actually has a lot of other things to deal with than the empire, looking for supplies and food, finding political support etc...

Expanding on that idea, there are any number of opportunities for fun. The "Imperials" they're trying to con are, themselves con men -- Rebels who have just taken over the base, but want it to appear to still operate; Smugglers who are currently robbing the place; A cult that are performing Force rituals using the corpses of the Imperials who used to occupy the base.

There are tons of opportunities that can be played with if you just get creative. Just because it says "Imperials" on the door, doesn't mean that's who's running the place. If it's far enough of a backwater, it's possible that the locals are running the place just to have the Imperials think they still have someone stationed there.

Another idea is to give them missions where the empire really isn't a factor they can interact with too readily. For example a smuggling run to a rebellion outpost, going to the smugglers moon to make a trade that is beset by setbacks. Or the rebellion has a special interest in arranging a trade agreement with Lando and the party is the repersentive of a company that needs the tabana gas for exploration. Situations where they have to adopt a seperate array of core skills to get the job done, after all the allience need the fringe more then most.

The other thing is to make obtaining these false identities a challange in itself; most the times people pass off as another group is either by putting the full uniform on or having the right codes. Make it clear that though just turning up unannounced may work occationally, probably more effectively if that imperial base was infaltrated first, people in charge of the place will likely know who belongs and who doesn't. If they want to fool those people? Then it's time to take over a sattilite and hack the details from them, aquire an imperial lander and then it will look more convincing and likely fool even the higher ups, otherwise it should be treated as seriously as it is, a deception that would fool grunts but not those in the logicstics department.

Not knowing how exactly you run your games, but maybe mix it up a little bit.

That imperial station they think they're going to? just overrun by pirates /rancors during mating season . The rebellion actually has a lot of other things to deal with than the empire, looking for supplies and food, finding political support etc...

You are absolutely sick! Can I join your game?

Keep in mind the old saying "no plan of battle survives contact with the enemy." This goes for the adventures you work tirelessly on, and it can also apply to their tried and true strategy of infiltration.

Other skill checks you could require:

Cool: One guard checks the document while the other watches the PCs for signs that something's amiss

Discipline to act like military and stay in character. (similar to other suggestions)

Leadership to be convincing as the rank you are pretending to be.

"An intelligent guard. Didn't see that one coming." -Preed Titan A.E.

Change of command personnel maybe they have a grudge or rivalry and maybe your credentials make you a recipient of that spitefulness?

Might actually reassign you on the spot to serve aboard a visiting Imperial ship on a mission they only learn about en route to Stygion Prime to pick up an important VIP along with a change of personnel...

Doesn't have to be Lord Vader but THEY don't know that!