Sooo.... I have a solid player base with six regular players, have GM'd for a year and half playing a very long running adventure though in recent sessions the player group has been operating under a repetitive narrative. For over a year we have played under the EotE theme and over three months ago their time line and adventures have moved them into a full blown rebellion following the battle of Yavin. They joined the rebellion and, as a specialist unit, have been given missions such as breaking out important rebel assets from Imp held jails, going behind enemy lines on a rebelling planet and rescuing stranded engineers. From their very first mission they snatched the imperial uniforms and laminate armour and had them repaired so they don't look battle damaged.

On their second mission they put those clothes on and impersonated imperial officers and soldiers. Thought that was inventive and went along with it. Deception checks opposed by discipline which succeeded with the players rolls opened up opportunities and they had a successful mission. Now my issue is that they are repeating the same narrative on all missions. That is they are dressing up as imps and infiltrating wherever they go and whatever the mission is.

I am throwing rolls for deception though am getting beaten down and now they have procured forged documents and by RAW its a daunting perception check so odds are stacked against me. So what I am looking for is assistance on how to narratively make it challenging to carry out the ruse in places within the imperial structure where it shouldn't be so easy. What form of security protocols, for instance, would imps apply? Does an Imp suit show anything other than the officers rank? That is their unit number, surname, etc. Is there anything else apart from them walking around and deceiving ordinary minion troopers and the occasional rival and nemesis, which they fool every single time.

Now an option would be to take it up a notch and improve the discipline of the next nemesis they approach though I would be accused of purposefully stacking the deck against them. So I am looking for a rational narrative approach to show that its not that easy just breaking into every single facility, followed by the opposed roll.

The group always uses the mouth piece character of the group as his deception is awesome. One line of thought I am thinking is to have an imp challenge another member of the group. Approach them and, say reproach them for their tardy way of wearing their uniform or someone that knows of the unit the uniforms represent and starts asking how certain men he knows from that unit are faring. Then a deception roll with one of the other players with a not so good deception roll.

Thanking you in advance.

Keep in mind that those forged document's difficulty is in order to find out if the documents are fake. Not if the players are. That's 2 potential rolls, one for spotting the document, one for the lie. Doing this more than once a session tends to cry out cheese, so use sparingly. Of course, you are going to need to destroy those documents as soon as they earn 3 threat on a roll pertaining it. 3 threat is despair level, and can be used to damage a piece of equipment on the characters (in my games, by raw is only a despair but what fun is that?)

Another idea is having a time limit on those document. Every had an expiration date, even a marriage. Take advantage of those 3 threat (even on a successful roll) to have the npc keep those documents for the records. "Did you fill out the correct form 1138t in response to your request here?" An official should know these things!!

If they always use the same character for particular rolls, deception, I would split the party up. In previous game systems this is not recommended, however in this game system I find it very easy. Put the character with the deception skill in a predicament where he cannot help the rest of the party with his deception skill like at a card table, or valet parking.

The fake documents state that it's daunting to check authenticity, without any special equipment. However say they go to an officer who has the proper equipment, the proper scanner. Now difficulty can be whatever you want.

What you have given them is enough rope to hang themselves with. Let them use the documents and armor and uniforms. Let them get real deep in the facility behind enemy lines. Let them go so deep into Imp facilities, so far that they must check in their weapons, cause stray blaster bolts could kill everyone in the photon generator room. Then spring the trap.

I fully advocate the destruction (damage, loss) of characters belongings with three or more threats on a regular basis. Equipment should not last forever, the more use of that equipment the quicker it should fall apart and or have the opportunity to be damaged and fall apart. I feel the last thing a GM should spend threat on is strain. There's better options in my opinion. It seems unfair, at the end however they can do it too. After a while your players Will be okay with it and realize the importance of credits. Make them hungry.

Bring in Vader. Not so that they have to face him directly, but just as a way to call them out.

They're on a mission and they cross paths with him and the base/ship commander as he's leaving. Off screen as a final order to the commander Vader informs him that the team is actually rebel spies and to detain them. Vader leaves and then the whole base is after your PCs.

The PCs don't even have to be captured, who they are becomes known and the false identies get spread out and makes them useless.

Bring in Vader. Not so that they have to face him directly, but just as a way to call them out.

They're on a mission and they cross paths with him and the base/ship commander as he's leaving. Off screen as a final order to the commander Vader informs him that the team is actually rebel spies and to detain them. Vader leaves and then the whole base is after your PCs.

The PCs don't even have to be captured, who they are becomes known and the false identies get spread out and makes them useless.

This is a good idea, but let them have some fun with their fancy papers before you render them useless. Otherwise you run the risk of really killing their victory.

In a more general sense, the reason PCs shouldn't repeat tactics is because the enemy will start catching on. It's not hard to review security records and find the impostors after you know they were there. There may be an entire ISB team devoted to catching them, and so they would have a means for local forces to identify possible intruders.

Though I do like the idea of using Vader, if only for the Code Brown moment it'll cause.

If they're not making sure to cover their tracks on the way out as well, their cover is going to be blown, even if it works for the current assignment. Most military uniforms include a unit designation as well as rank, name and decorations. If someone from a different unit is walking around, that's going to draw questions and unit designations are doing to be somewhat difficult to duplicate. This isn't as much of an issue if the uniforms they did manage to acquire were from a high-ranking, mobile unit, but, in that case, they're going to be brought in front of senior officers very quickly as line officers will know to bring it to the attention of their commanders.

Further, the Empire is all about protocol -- think Soviet Russia. Papers will be required everywhere and for everything. Further the papers and the authorization codes will be changing very frequently -- even more frequently in this area of the Galaxy due to the actions of the party.

If things continue to go poorly for the Empire, they'll send the ISB in and, if that fails, Inquisitors. Another option is the nuclear one -- Vader.

Let the party discover that security protocols are changing due to their over reliance on this tactic. It's possible that the party's face might succeed on the deception checks, even in the face of all of this, but don't be afraid to stack Setbacks due to failure to comply with the increasingly complex security protocols.

Separate the party. Have the party need to pick up multiple targets in multiple locations in a time frame that doesn't allow them to all go to one location at a time. They'll be forced to adopt different tactics even if the face character can just walk in and out.

On another note, look into the twists encountered in Leverage and Burn Notice to find interesting and inventive ways to introduce wrinkles into a plan.

If you feel they are abusing this, start enforcing units, not just rank. It also depends on the situation. In a battle situation a private will listen to any captain in the right uniform. At a guard post, you need to be from the right unit, or else the best you get is past the guard post into the CO's office to explain why a member of the 417th Army Battalion is trying to get into a facility operated by the 225th Armor Division.

Then if they start trying to pull odd ranks, like impersonating ISB, high ranking attache inspections, etc., the CO will probably communicate with his superiors, and assign an escort until he receives confirmation from above. (This is where clever PC's do the Mission Impossible move of hacking the comm's and impersonating HQ).

A uniform doesn't buy familiarity. Some unknown person showing up is going to draw more scrutiny. Plus a uniform doesn't magically bestow instant access everywhere in the military. Lots of secure facilities have access lists of only specific persons allowed to enter.

A uniform is just one piece of the puzzle. Decorations, unit insignia, identification papers, orders, knowing proper etiquette, etc. All of that is necessary to add up to a successful impersonation. Take a look at some of the old Pretender episodes to understand all the secondary subtleties that go into properly getting access to restricted areas.

A 4 star general could show up to a missile silo command bunker in the USAF, and the E-3 guarding the gate won't let them in. Uniforms are best used when PCs keep their mouths shut and are just sort of passing through a busy area full of troops.

You could have fun with this. So, they're in a garrison, tempting fate again when a sub-officer and a platoon of Stormtroopers runs up. "Thank Goodness you're here, Commander PC! There's been an assassination at C&C and all the base officers are out of action. You're the ranking officer! Orders from Courscant sir - take these troopers and hunt down the killers!"

And watch them get out of that. . . .

You could have fun with this. So, they're in a garrison, tempting fate again when a sub-officer and a platoon of Stormtroopers runs up. "Thank Goodness you're here, Commander PC! There's been an assassination at C&C and all the base officers are out of action. You're the ranking officer! Orders from Courscant sir - take these troopers and hunt down the killers!"

And watch them get out of that. . . .

That would be an awesome game. I'd love to play in that game.

I am throwing rolls for deception though am getting beaten down and now they have procured forged documents and by RAW its a daunting perception check so odds are stacked against me.

Negative Ghostrider. The odds are very much in your favor, just not the odds you're looking at.

The false creds are just that. False Creds. To use them in the way your players are suggesting (pretending to be military, other someone with access to military locations, secrets, and materiel) requires fresh ones EACH TIME. That's because military credentials (usually in the form of those little code cylinders the officers carry around in those neat little pocket near the shoulder) have to both identify who you are, but also provide the needed clearance and authorization data-work explain why you're where you are and what you are allowed access to. That changes every time, because they need credentials tailored to each facility, AND up to date. Older codes sometimes work... but they don't always check out. There's only two guys in the entire Empire that can show up anywhere they want and get access, and impersonating them is gonna take more then some halloween costumes.

So... Every single time they want to try this stunt, they need to spend the 800 (minimum) credits (for each of them) and make the Rarity 7 (Adjusted for location, target, and item) Restricted Streetwise check. Since they are accessing restricted military info and want something that will check out.... you should totally spend a Dpoint to upgrade that check every time.

See THAT gives you a lot more room to play.

Oh? 3 Threat? Hmmm, well the IDs look solid so I wouldn't worry about it. (Detection checks difficulty downgraded)

What? A successful despair? Eh, I'll think of something, just keep going. (It's a Daunting Perception check to see it's a fake... but Computers? It's now Easy)

To quote the movies:

"It's an older code sir, but it checks out"

There comes a point and time where it doesn't check out. Forged documents are only so good as long as they're current. The moment they change procedure, or update the codes then the players are going to be caught. Another example: WWII. One of the pivotal moments of the war was when the allies captured a sub with an intact enigma code machine. The reason that was important wasn't just because of the machine, but ALSO because it came with the guide for the correct settings for each day of the year. Without that, they would have only had half the puzzle.

Same thing goes here. The imperials in the years after the battle of Yavin have just learned that they really need to take the rebellion a lot more seriously than in the past. They're going to eventually cotton on that things are happening due to infiltration, and they're going to change things.

Also, as I believe someone else stated....

1: Uniforms and insignia aren't universal. imperials from the wrong unit in the wrong place are going to stick out like sore thumbs.

2: Code cylinders are keyed to specific doors and areas for access. Downside of this of course is that all you have to do is kill the poor bastard holding one, and you have access. The upside is that code cylinders from a star destroyer won't work on base security.

3: Have they been meticulous about disabling things like cameras and security systems, and have they ever left survivors? If the same "face" of the group is doing the talking, imperials are going to notice a pattern unless he's getting REALLY creative with makeup and cybernetics. They're going to be gaining knowledge of his MO, and know red flags to look for.

4: Some bases have additional informal layers of security. There was one book in the expanded universe where an imperial base used moves from a chessboard as their daily pass code. Now, similar to the enigma machine, once the rebels figured this out they were able to bypass security. But this information wasn't listed in ANY computers or intelligence, they had to find this on their initial infiltration.

The fake documents state that it's daunting to check authenticity, without any special equipment. However say they go to an officer who has the proper equipment, the proper scanner. Now difficulty can be whatever you want.

Note that the new book “Desperate Allies” has some new equipment in this space that the GM could use to their advantage. I wonder how well those forged documents encrypted with the old four-rotor Engima system will work when they run into the new document scanner that uses the new six-rotor Enigma encryption device?

Oh, and don’t forget things like different uniforms. In the US military, in most of the branches there are Winter versus Summer uniforms, but each command can determine exactly when they switch from one to the other. What if there are more than just two different types of uniforms, and you’re in a command where they switched early — or they switch late here, because the C.O. likes it that way? And then there are uniform transitions, when the old style starts getting phased out and when the new style comes in.

Combined with differences in unit and command insignia, that can start generating a number of different permutations and combinations. Do you have all the right different shirts that Gunnery Sgt. Highway likes to use in the movie “Heartbreak Ridge”? If so, are you sure you picked the right one this morning?

Some facilities have additional security also. You not only have to have the right uniform and clearance but have to have a special badge and be recorded on a list of personal allowed in the facility. The guards have orders to shoot anyone attempting to access the facility without a current bade and being on the list of approved personnel. Even the guards are not allowed to enter past their post with out an escort on the approved list. Try faking all of that especially if you have no prior knowledge of the procedures and the list is not electronic.

Thanks to all. Once again you have shown why this forum is the best on the planet. The assistance provided has been absolutely brilliant. It has helped to confirm that I have been, out of unwarranted concern, very easy on the group with their repetitive narrative. In hindsight I feel they are doing the same thing over and over again because it was just to easy preceding times. Plus the mouthpiece likes it as his best skill is being used and the others follow as they cant think of alternatives to the challenges set or are to lazy to think.

Though we have had arguments, last session most heated, as their ruse got them to the sector army command centre overseeing the war effort on the southern tip of the continent. At the doors to the command bunker are two imp troopers and the mouthpiece, in his imperial officer suit orders them to open the door. They flatly refuse and ask for his password. Without the password he is not going in. Then the argument began. I think now, more so out of the fact that if at any moment this deception fails they are actually in real trouble as they are in the belly of the beast. The argument was that he is a ranking officer and these are soldiers that need to obey the rank and file. My argument was that irrespective of the uniforms they are wearing, these soldiers have specific orders and they cant disobey them. It got heated as I insisted on a roll be made rather than just simply letting them through. The mouth piece is force emergent so he used the good old "these aren't the droids you're looking for" which is OK by me as I needed a roll to be made to get these guys to somehow go against their explicit orders.

Nevertheless, the assistance here is immense and I will certainly carry more confidence into the next session and be firm with my rationale why they are being asked for their code cylinders, why they are being asked what is their unit doing here where it shouldn't be, etc. They are implying now that they are on a secret imperial mission hunting force adepts and hence why all the secrecy. I think this is more trouble for them than they possibly realise as hunting force adepts is Vader's prerogative and very select few under his command and control. Plus the inquisitors which these guys aren't.

Thank you all and please feel free to add more if you have any further assistance you could provide.

Good start. You're absolutely correct that just because someone is higher rank, they can't make someone else drop their current orders, especially if those orders came from someone else of higher rank than the suggest-ee

Now here's a suggestion for a totally epic followup that gives them a good adventure without completely screwing them over (not completely at least).

You said that they managed to get themselves inside correct? If there's anywhere that's REALLY bad to get found out, it's in the middle of the base. Now whether or not they get captured, if there's one thing our big bad guy in black hates it's when someone impersonates in his name, which is what these guys totally are doing. If they were hunting force fugitives, you're correct that might imply that they're posing as members of the inquisition or 501st, both under the jurisdiction of Darth Vader. And Darth Vader in these situations is often of the type to be downright vindictive. I don't mean shooting them on sight. That's him when he's in a good mood. I mean "I want them alive. I will find out what they know before crushing their pathetic resistance".

So now they're in the middle of the imperial base, either hiding or captured....and they find out they've got a limited amount of time before the Executor arrives in orbit, and they REALLY need to get the hell out of here. Don't make it impossible, as the story needs a way for the "good guys" to triumph. Maybe they overhear the communique through a slightly open door, or maybe the base commander still doesn't believe in the force, and they're able to "suggest" to the cell guards that he really doesn't need that key. Either way, instead of trying to break in, they're now trying to break out. Complete turnaround.

But this gives you a chance to put someone they know from the star wars cannon, someone who the force sensitive is going to be scared as hell about, and give them incentive to change their tune in future missions, because can a mission really go any worse than attracting the wrath of Darth Vader?

First off: I would like to compliment you not to take the beginner GM way of just making things harder or let them fail. Many GM´s try to teach their players "a lesson" when they abuse something.

The simplest thing to deal with that problem is to not make the next mission(s) about imperial facilities in the first place. So, letting them protect a fugitive, make a delivery, infiltrate a criminal organization etc.

But in my opinion the best way is to talk to your players in that way: Star Wars, as the most adventure orientated universes, is in no way logical. And that´s part of the fun, it´s a 12 year old boys fantasy. Shield generators are outside the shields, doors are not locked, people costumed in uniforms move freely through security facilities, the hypermodern Superspacestation have a serious design flaw that you can abuse to have an excuse for a cool space battle and so on. So, getting away with insane plans is a part of the Star Wars Galaxies and it is fun for the players to do so.

But there is also the other side of the coin. Know that awesome interpretation of the Superhero´s superpower, that the hero never uses again? Or the superscience tweaking of the Deflector shield we saw earlier that would be very useful right now? Why don´t they do it again? Because they simply can´t. The same rule that let them get away with this stupid, insane, suicidal plan will prevent them from doing it a second time. The first law of physics in this universe is: The probabilities bend to coolness. The more cool, the more likely it succeeds. And doing something a second time makes it less cool, and so less likely to succeed.

With this explanation I would state in advance to the players at the beginning of the session that the uniform trick would not work anymore.

The ideas I read are hillarious (I certainly like the PC that is drawn into an empiral mission) but I doubt that this will prevent the players to doing it again next time. Maybe they even try to look what hinderance the GM will put "this week" into the way to prevent them from using the uniforms.

Hey, if you got fun with this, do it a few times. But if it is getting boring, that would be my two cents.

Once it fails to work once or twice they may stop. My player group does this as well, but since several are not human it becomes more manageable. I simply replace storm troopers with navy/army troopers and officers. No helmets to hide their faces.

Also, you can add setback dice if they are larger or smaller than a typical trooper/officer.

Similar to in A New Hope when Solo is in the detention center and fails to correctly provide security code clearance, you can encourage the players to find other avenues of infiltration when they fail to get those codes. Also, if they have a slicer, they might start seeking computer terminals out to get said codes so they can further their cosplay adventures.

Ultimately, I think infiltration is more exciting than grinding combat so their ingenuity, while stale, is still preferable to beating a million storm troopers in drawn out blaster fights.

Haha, I have pondered for a while now whether I should throw in a character from cannon like Darth Vader. I think I will though must be prepared to control the encounter so the group doesn't kill the character as they are just the types that would do that so they can have a laugh. Even if I threw in an ally like Luke I bet they would do something.

On another note, I don't want to categorically say at the beginning of a game that their strategy to wear imp uniforms and infiltrate facility/ship, etc. wont work. I don't like to 'railroad' games. What I have been looking for and have received plenty of support is on how to manage the encounters/scenarios. How to validate why an NPC is behaving in a particular way and is asking questions and placing the PC's in a more precarious position which this really should be.

Without knowing how they were going to approach this new challenge of rescuing engineers behind enemy lines I have created several NPCs and one of them is an ISB Officer who is on the planet carrying out orders direct from the emperor. Now the group was meant to come across this individual and his company in the field and witness a horrible act in ethnic cleansing. Then opportunities would present for them to intercede and stop this heinous crime. Call it a side adventure to the core.

So I have all these pre made encounters which have been avoided, without their knowledge, though I think I can still make it work. I am thinking of using the ISB officer now to challenge them on their mission as they are claiming to be on the planet hunting a force user. As one of you mentioned, the hunting of force users is kept strictly within the confines of the emperor, darth vader and possibly a very close inner circle. For someone in the ISB, they would/should have knowledge of this and also knowledge of protocols when someone is on such missions. Now I read that ISB do tend to have better free reign of movement by virtue of what and who they are. My player group has imp navy and army uniforms so the ISB should be real trouble.

Also from the last mission they did not think outside the box and monitoring systems were not disabled so the imps do have "CCTV" footage though what I am doing is allowing for some extra time for the flow of information to reach all the imps in a sector, then region, etc.

With your help I am formulating a strategy which is not about killing their idea, more so focused on being challenging rather than a cake walk every time.

That's absolutely correct.

The idea isn't to "kill" their strategy. The idea is to make sure that if they do keep doing the same thing over and over again without thinking it through, then the things they haven't accounted for (Awesome ideas for all those possible encounters) come back to bite them, not because it's vindictive, but because the empire strikes back couldn't have happened they way it did without the battle of hoth, which quite frankly was a loss for the Rebels. A PC group should reap exactly the rewards that it sews. If they perform well, and get out of this, they should be able to get away scot free, and maybe even be rewarded. If not, then they have a much harder mission on their hands. Either way, it's a success if on the next assignment, their reaction is "Well....okay, that didn't work out so well that time. Maybe wait a while before doing that again....or what if we change things around so that we approach it differently...." etc.

I apologise for not trawling through the previous posts... here's a few ideas - some mature, some not so....

1) Send them on a different mission, different spaceport/planet - have them meet a 'Minion' passport checker or whatever (is actually a rival or nemesis)... a few weeks later.. a different spaceport/planet have them meet them THE SAME passport check.. Did I here someone say does not compute.... you're under arrest.

2) send the players off to somewhere that has nothing to do with the needing disguises... like a junkyard, podrace etc.

3) the Empire has got wind of them... send in the Bounty Hunters.

4) the Hutts have heard of their success,,, as 3 and an audience in the Hutt's favour

5) emphasise the STORYTELLING side of the game... just play a Jar-Jar Binks clip over and over for 15 minutes,.,,, see how long it takes them to get bored,, explain that's how you feel for making the EFFORT WEEK IN AND WEEK (expletive) OUT ENTERTAINING THEM AS YOUR BUDDIES!!!.

6) Take some time out... say you'll contact them when you're ready to start again,,, don't call them... let them call you, then explain why you took a break. Childish? Yes!! Did it work for me? Yes... but see 7..I moved on and never GM'd for that group again EVER ... and I feel great

7) number 5 is in capitals coz after running various games for over a decade and having none of my 'friends' offer to run a game of anything else for me when I took some time out, I decided to jack it all in for ages to the point of purposely avoiding the group from then until now.. I now have a decent group and will gladly print stuff out etc and assist the GM any way possible as he makes the effort to run a game each week - character/ship sheets... gaming aids... etc

Having typed all this out i could be replying to a dead thread, couldn't I? *facepalm*

OOH and laughs abound when they decide to hack an imperial computer, and in the "New email" folder, received just 5 min ago is the wanted posters with their faces on them.