So I had a lot of time to see the new Phantom in action, and time to see reactions to the change on the forums ("Post Nerf Phantom" lol). The change trades information for maneuvering options and ion-resistance, which is a buff in my book. But calling it a nerf makes people feel cozy inside.

At this point I'm convinced that this is the biggest nerf, that people aren't afraid of it anymore. Sure, you get more tidbits of information when going against it, but many lists have no way of using that information so late. People aren't scared of going against it, and some players are afraid of using it.

Perhaps a similar change to turrets would do the same trick. Perhaps if you had to yell "Don't get cocky, kid!" each time you turret hits something , or if you had to tell your opponent what you were planning to do at the beginning of the Activation Phase .

You may be right with the Phantom.

Turrets however are exaclty the opposite. What should be the fear of using them? They don't get caught like squishy Phantoms in all or nothing approaches. So the same psychology just doesnt work for them.

No the nerf was an actual nerf. Echo or Whisper used to be able to take on an entire list without any support. Now they're balanced. They're not bad, they're balanced.

Which is why there's seems to be so much butt-hurt crying going on still. OMG! The fairly OP ship is now back on the same level as everything else.

I wouldn't say Phantoms are on the same level as X-wings and preRaider advanced. Probably just a teeny tiny bit more competitive than that.

Phantom is a great ship and still really strong until your opponent learns to block.

Then your stuck with a 2 evade die expensive ship that's dead that turn.

I wouldn't say they're better or worse now. You do lose some manouverability... But with the current FAQued decloak you can move your phantom in the way of enemy ships with your decloak action and make your opponent bump into it, giving it excellent action denial possibilities.

It was indeed a nerf. Pre-Nerf: A good player can predict exactly where the phantom was planning on going, and what he was planning on doing. But since he was a lower PS, the phantom knows that the planned decloak + maneuver puts the phantom in a BAD spot. As such, he can choose to decloak (or not to decloak) in a different direction - often leaving the phantom without a shot, but also leaving all of the rest of enemy without a shot. And then Chiraneau gets a free shot in with no return fire. Win for phantom player, even though the other player "outplayed" the phantom. The alternative to this is to cover both positions. The problem with that is now you've reduced your fire power, and Whisper ends up with 4 dice, a focus and an evade, and 2 3 dice attacks are unlikely to push any damage through.

Post-Nerf: The dials are still selected for both players, but now the phantom player decloaks prior to the lower pilot skilled enemy, and does the optimal move. Which the other player predicts, and lined up all of the shots for that position. Now the phantom player cannot totally escape all of the fire, and has to choose between taking an evade token and trading shots with everyone, or barrel rolling out of some of the fire, but not all of it. And if Whisper can BR out of all of the arcs, she's likely to not have any shots herself, meaning she cannot cloak, and makes it easier for the squad to catch her the following turn. MUCH easier to target a Phantom.

Edit: Oh yeah, now you can block a Phantom, denying it a shot and actions, and then pounding on it. You couldn't do that previously, when it would just decide to decloak a different direction (or perhaps the same direction, but furthest backwards instead of furthest forwards).

Phantoms were previously the only ship that I would say was truly broken in Xwing
They weren't "easy" to fly persay but once you got the hang of them any player could easily arcdodge and use the entire field.
Now with the nerf I think Phantoms are a lot better (they require more of the original guesswork that maneuvering has for every other ship) and now I think there isn't a really OP ship
Sure there are some OP options like Fat Han and Corran (Personal favorite of mine) but they themselves have fairly many issues and have been beaten plenty of times before
I also think that the Post Raider Advanced may be the death of Fat Han lists, we may see more fat chewies but I have a feeling that X1-Ties will soon be bleeding the lower evade ships and we will see more of a demand for high evade ships with this next metagame.... Sorry went into some tangents there
Phantoms are Nerfed but definitely for the better

yeah sorry, but I have to say the basis of this thread is full of ****

the phantom is simply far more difficult to abuse after the errata, since the multiple positions it can begin occupying via decloak cannot be selected on a whim after everything else has moved, allowing ships with post maneuver movement to arc-correct and forcing your opponent to guess/predict in order to arc dodge. Quite simply, it has made them far more challenging to fly.

there is no psychological element to facing a phantom. Before, you either brought something to shut down de-cloak or you brought a zero-**** giving pwt. Now, you are no longer required to do either to beat them reliably.

Whether or not the errata was a nerf does not address the fact that the change in game mechanics is what is affecting their appearance

Similarly, believing a PWT won't always be able to shoot you if you can shoot it is going to be about as useful as believing in fairies when you jump off a tall building. If PWTs had any sort of restriction whatsoever, the change in mechanics would force a change in game-play regardless of the shift in opinions about he ship.

They were nerf'ed, but a nerf is not an inherently bad thing. Quite often the only sensible way to fix a balance issue is to reduce the effectiveness of a given unit. You can't always increase the power of everything else, in fact doing so is honestly the worse way to address balance issues.

Like someone said before, previously it was 'teleporter', now it feels like it is 'cloaked', so thematically this makes more sense.

not so much a teleporter as much as one ship occupying multiple positions simultaneously

not so much a teleporter as much as one ship occupying multiple positions simultaneously

Schrödinger's Starfighter.

PWT should be changed to PWNT

A lot of it is psychological, sure, but it does actually feel like a nerf when you play it, especially that first time you guess incorrectly and get no shots vs a PS 1 generic, or you decloak and one IG88 blocks you with a boost and the other IG88 shoots you from behind.

Before, there were times you could choose not to decloak, and your opponent would have no idea until you did it. Now the opponent can clearly see you are not decloaking, and plan accordingly to ignore you or TL another ship or something.

I still think it is a good ship, top tier, but more likely to be out played, which is nice.

Playing them a lot both post and pre nerf I can say that my opponents do seem a lot more confident when facing them than they used to be.
Pre-nerf it was turrets or GTFO to take the Phantom. But as long as i was using Whisper i either had the PS to shoot first and cloak plus a focus or evade on top of 4 green dice or the enemy ship just died. Target locks and battering rams were my only fears.

Post Nerf, I have to decide if Im going to attack or not before everything else moves. This makes planning a lot more risky. It makes the game more heart pounding but it also turns the Phantom into a potential Glass Cannon. The 4 fire power on it is nice but if i guess wrong or the other player guesses right he's a very expensive AP in terms of green dice.

Whereas it used to be a Phantom or a Swarm to compete, now the Phantom is a bit more negotiable in terms of fire power in your hanger.

I like the Phantom better after the rules change. It's more challenging to fly, it feels more like it's cloaked, and the lower PS Phantoms are more viable than before.

Which is why there's seems to be so much butt-hurt crying going on still. OMG! The fairly OP ship is now back on the same level as everything else.

Huh, some one was talking about me?

Sorry I thought I heard someone said that the OP ship that had once been nerf is now back. Did we miss something here?

Which is why there's seems to be so much butt-hurt crying going on still. OMG! The fairly OP ship is now back on the same level as everything else.

Except, they aren't - really.

Those 2/4 dice? they never did much, it was the arc-dodging that made them fearsome and now that that is gone - you're left with a 40+ green-dice dependant glass cannon; in a Meta rife with 3/4 attack ships, stress, unavoidable damage and PWTs.

YAY! NERF PHANTOMS! OP!!!

*PWT's are balanced. L2P, stop whining noobs.

YAY! NERF PHANTOMS! OP!!!

*PWT's are balanced. L2P, stop whining noobs.

The judges have spoken, 1/10 on the Troll-O'-Meter.

I must of missed something. I dont understand how anything has changed. The phantom decloacks then moves (?), did it not do that before?

It used to decloak at the beginning of its own activation, before it moved - in the Activation Phase.

As opposed to how it is now, in the beginning of the Activation Phase - before anyone moves.

It used to decloak at the beginning of its own activation, before it moved - in the Activation Phase.

As opposed to how it is now, in the beginning of the Activation Phase - before anyone moves.

ok now i see. thanks