My friends and I have been playing Magic the Gathering for years but recently decided to try something different / more "complex." A few of us are avid fans of aSoIaF, so we decided to try this out. So far, we've been very pleased we did

None of us are "new" to CCG's (although I've never heard the term "LCG" before) by any means, but as we've never played this particular game before, nor have we ever seen any "official" games, we've kind of been figuring stuff out as we go along. However, we're at the point now where we THINK we have the "basics" down but are struggling with some of the "wheels within wheels" concepts. There's also the (very likely) possibility that we even have the "basics" wrong o_O

So here's a random (and long) mish-mash of questions ranging from basic structure / wording to specific interactions. To date we've just been using the Core Set + the "War of the 5 Kings" expansion set, so any card references I make are referring to the ones found in those sets. Any help / insight would be greatly appreciated

1. Fleeing the Wall - this plot has the word "Others" in bold. I'm assuming this means "Others" is a trait that may affect / be affected by cards in future sets. Is this accurate, or is there something else going on here?

2. Mutual Cause - this and other similar plots in the Core Set state "if you have more than one opponent, choose an opponent." What I'd like to know here is if these kinds of plot effects have any bearing on 2 player games where you ONLY have one opponent to begin with. Is it like an "If statement" in computer programming where the "If condition" must be true before the effect initiates? Or is it simply saying "ONE person isn't going to engage in power challenges with you this round, but if you have multiple opponents you can pick who that one person is?"

3. Stormlands Fiefdoms - since it states "Baratheon CARD" as opposed to Great Hall's "Baratheon CHARACTER," does this mean (assuming the first copy came into play on a prior round) you could activate Stormlands to play a second copy of Stormlands for free?

4. Ser Davos Seaworth - suppose I activate his saving response, and then someone else responded by canceling the ability. If I'm understanding the rules correctly, the "THEN" word means paying 1 gold or returning him to my hand is conditional upon the save resolving successfully. In which case, I wouldn't end up doing either of those things since the save itself was cancelled. True / False?

5. Working off of #4, I would not be allowed to then "re-activate" Davos's save against the ORIGINAL event causing him to be killed, correct? However, if a DIFFERENT event initiates within the same window prior to the ORIGINAL even resolving, and this new event would ALSO cause Davos to be killed, would I then be allowed to trigger his save against the NEW event? And if that's the case, and I choose upon successful resolution to return him to my hand, would that mean the original killing event no longer affects Davos, as he is no longer "in play" to be killed?

6. Was Robert Baratheon ever errata'd to be a "King" instead of a "Lord?" And if so, does this apply to ALL versions of the card, or merely the ones "going forward" with that printed clarification physically on the card? I'll admit this is more of a lore grievance than something causing us trouble, but it just seems to me that if you're going to call Daenerys a "Queen," you should probably also call THE KING OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS a "King." Just saying

7. Counting Favors - does this count towards the "3 draw cap" limit?

8. Maester Aemon - suppose I had a duplicate of him in play. If I activate his response and it gets canceled, could I then "activate" the duplicate in response to the original killing event? Or am I limited to "one saving response attempt per killing effect?"

9. If a card originally has a keyword like Stealth, but something like Arya removes it, BUT you then give the card stealth from another source, does it "net sum" to the character having Stealth (+2 Stealth -1 Stealth = +1 Stealth)? For that matter, do keywords stack (like with Renown, would it be possible to throw Aegon's Blade on Daenerys and claim 2 power)?

10. Could someone clarify the "Unique" play restrictions for me? I understand I can only have, say, ONE copy of Daenerys that I own in play at any given time (aside from duplicates, which aren't counted as being "in play"), even if I'm not actively controlling her at the time. But what about Discard or Dead piles? I'm assuming Discard is exempt or else you'd be breaking the rules immediately after activating a duplicate response. Does that mean I could have her discarded on an Intrigue and/or Westeros Bleeds, and then play a fresh copy from my hand on my next Marshal?

11. Also, with a unique NON-character card like Aegon's Blade, can those be "duplicated" as well? Could I have 3 Aegon's Blades stacked on top of my Jhogo (only the first one would "count" for bonuses, of course, but I mean could I physically have it happen legally if I wanted to)?

12. How does Icy Catapult work? Is there some sort of "interim window" between the attached character leaving play and the attachments themselves being discarded where you'd activate this thing? Because if there isn't, I'm not sure how its limited response can be legally activated - it doesn't say you can use it while the card itself is in an "out-of-play" state, nor does the flowchart in the Clarifications sheet dictate there's any such "pre-discard" player action window.

13. Sansa Stark - suppose I control her and someone ELSE attaches something to her. Can THEY activate her response themselves, or is it up to ME as Sansa's controller to choose whether they get the extra draw?

14. Drunken Allegations - can the chosen players kneel ANY character on the board, so long as they are standing? Or does it have to be a character they control?

15. Bronn - Since it doesn't actually use the word "Save" anywhere, I'm assuming by the time you get to the "Save / Cancel" step in an action window, it's too late to activate him, correct? However, I'd also take that to mean you could "pre-emptively" use his ability on as many targets as you can afford, even before a single challenge is initiated, and he'll wind up "saving" each of them in turn so long as he was kneeling prior to each "kill effect" being resolved. Yes / No?

16. (last one for now, I promise) During Setup, as I understand it, you're only allowed to "place" 5 gold worth of characters or locations (or attachments that say you can use them during setup, assuming you also place legal targets for them). Is that 5 gold limit imposed after taking "reductions" like those found on King Joffrey's Guard into account, or is it strictly based on the actual gold cost printed on the card?

Whew. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future, but I think 16 is enough for one post ._.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to even read all that, let alone reply to some of them

this forum works strange if you edit post

Dimlhugion said:

Correct.

Dimlhugion said:

Yes.

Dimlhugion said:

Correct.

Dimlhugion said:

True.

Dimlhugion said:

Yep. Only once per trigger.

Dimlhugion said:

Prior? You cannot go back to the previous "save" opportunity, if I'm understand your question.

Dimlhugion said:

Aside from above part: if Davos is returning to hand, then he cannot be killed again ("Rules Exception", page 15 FAQ).

Dimlhugion said:

No. That version is not a king. BTW click the link in my signature to find more kings and queens.

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Yep, unless you have a card with same title in dead pile.

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

Dimlhugion said:

The biggest danger people from other games have coming into AGoT is reading too much into the cards and the rules. They expect there to be "hidden" or "unwritten" conventions for resolving various situations when really, it's just what's written on the cards. Let's see what you've got.

Dimlhugion said:

Yes, it's a trait. Plots can have traits, but the traits don't mean anything in and of themselves. You need card effects before they mean anything. So just like "Lord" on Eddard doesn't really mean anything unless Shaggydog or Stannis are in play, the "Others" on this plot doesn't really mean anything unless some card is printed that gives it meaning. (And in the case of this card, it is a reprint from an old CCG set where there were many cards that made this trait meaningful.)

Dimlhugion said:

It is totally an "if" statement. It's simply saying "a CHOSEN opponent isn't going to be doing power challenges with you, but you can only 'choose' that opponent when there are more than 2 people in the game." So really, it's exactly what's written on the card. "If" there is more than one opponent, you do something. Otherwise, you have no instructions, so you don't do anything.

Dimlhugion said:

Yup. Make sure that you aren't violating the rules on "Limited" and you're fine. Any specific reason you think you COULDN'T do that?

Dimlhugion said:

Well, it's a little deeper and more nuanced than that because both parts of Davos' ability ("X, then Y") share the same trigger. So any effect that canceled the save would ALSO cancel the "return to hand." Even though the "return to hand" part is conditional upon the save, it is part of the original effect, so something that "canceled the effects" would include it. So yes, neither part of Davos' Response will happen if canceled, but the "return to hand" part doesn't happen as much (if not more) because IT was canceled, too, instead of because the conditional first part of the effect was unsuccessful.

Dimlhugion said:

Technically correct, but almost impossible to occur. Since you are coming from M:tG, you are no double very used to "stacks" of effects and a "first in, last out" timing structure. AGoT doesn't have that. Every effect resolves completely before the next one is initiated (with the exception of effects that specifically use the word "save" or "cancel"). So unless a save or cancel ALSO kills a character, the original killing effect is going to resolve before a new passive or Response (the only things that can happen "in" the original window anyway) can be activated. So you are correct in theory (and especially about the "one Response per trigger" observation), but it's never going to happen unless an effect BOTH cancels and kills at the same time (such effects are extremely rare and almost never reflect back on the original kill target anyway).

Dimlhugion said:

6. Was Robert Baratheon ever errata'd to be a "King" instead of a "Lord?" And if so, does this apply to ALL versions of the card, or merely the ones "going forward" with that printed clarification physically on the card? I'll admit this is more of a lore grievance than something causing us trouble, but it just seems to me that if you're going to call Daenerys a "Queen," you should probably also call THE KING OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS a "King." Just saying

There are other versions of Robert (different art, text, stats, etc.) that have the King trait. The one in the Core Set is a reprint from before the King or Queen trait ever existed. And no, just because other versions might have the trait or because other versions may receive errata does not mean that you can apply it to all copies of the card with the same name. Different versions of the same unique character name are treated as completely separate cards and are not interchangeable.

Dimlhugion said:

Yes. It's a card effect that includes the word "draw." Any reason to think otherwise?

[ Dimlhugion said:

You can attempt a second save if the first one is canceled - so long as you are not trying to use the same card effect a second time. The "one Response per trigger" rule is applied to individual card effects, not to "types" of effects. This goes for non-save Responses as well. You can only trigger each "Response" one time, but if you have three different cards with the same title and effect, you could trigger EACH of them one time as separate Responses.

Dimlhugion said:

Keywords do work under the "net sum" rule for resolving "conflicting" lasting effects - like STR and icons - described in the FAQ. So yes, if Arya takes Stealth away, the character can gain it back through another card effect. (And if the Stark player has enough influence, she can take it away again). Keywords do not "stack" for resolution, though. The rules are worded as "when X happens, if you have the keyword, Y happens." So it's an either/or proposition. Having Renown or Stealth more than once has no practical advantage - other than to make it harder for an opponent to take it away through the "net sum" reasoning.

Dimlhugion said:

Yes, you should be maintaining two separate out-of-play piles. If a card is "killed," it goes to your "dead pile." If a card is "discarded" by an effect or through an intrigue challenge, it goes to the "discard pile." The rules for unique stop you from playing a second copy if there is one in the "dead" pile (meaning it left play because of an effect that said "kill") but not if there is one in the "discard" pile (meaning it left play or your hand because of an effect that said "discard").

Dimlhugion said:

You cannot have 3 Aegon's Blades stacked on top of Jhogo. You can have 1 Aegon's Blade with 2 duplicates on Jhogo, though. (It's important to distinguish that the duplicates are on the attachment, not attached to the character.) Any unique card, regardless of type, can be duplicated.

Dimlhugion said:

Go back to the FAQ and read the section of "Moribund" and the timing for taking cards that have been removed from play off the table in an action window. Icy Catapult is always activated from a moribund state and essentially works "on the way out." If you're still having conceptual trouble after (re)reading that, we'll talk again.

Dimlhugion said:

Only you can activate the effects on your cards (unless otherwise stated). It would be up to you to decide if someone who played an attachment on your Sansa gets to draw a card.

Dimlhugion said:

If it doesn't SAY you have to choose a character you control, you aren't limited to a character you control. In fact, this would be a pretty bad plot if you had to choose a character you control.

Dimlhugion said:

Yes. Correct. Not much use against a single effect that kills a lot of characters, but potentially good against a lot of effects that kill one character each.

Dimlhugion said:

Absolutely no card text (other than "Limited" and "Setup") is active during Setup. That means that none of those "reduction" effects are working in setup anyway. Setup is strictly printed cost.