"I do not fear the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks, but the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."

._{-=Bruce Lee=-}.

The forums are primarily a place to discuss Strategy, as its elements exist independently of opposition.

The very final strategic decisions in this game come from placing your ships on the table, following the placement of your obstacles.

The rest of the game is Tactics, which are rarely discussed.


This is a fleet built to excel Tactically.

Alpha Squadron Pilot

+ Autothrusters

._-=20=-.

Alpha Squadron Pilot

+ Autothrusters

._-=20=-.

Alpha Squadron Pilot

+ Autothrusters

._-=20=-.

Alpha Squadron Pilot

+ Autothrusters

._-=20=-.

Howlrunner

._-=18=-.

Whew, it's harder to format on these forums ever since they changed background defaults.

Anyway, this thing is, in my experience, practically the Thneed of X-Wing.

It is great at Range 1

(19 dice offensively, with the added benefits of Blocking and predictive Arc-Dodging. Focus + Howlrunner gives high value per die as well.)

It is great at Range 3

(Autothrusters + Focus with 4 green dice after the range bonus? Gonna need a Gunner)

It is great among Asteroids

(Boost and Barrel-Roll mean I'm not going to run into them, so they'll only serve to aid my defense)

It's great among Debris

(As the above, but have you seen how much green I've got on my dial? Who cares about stress!)

It's great without obstacles entirely.

(Even more room to find your back!)

It's great against Pic and Gorc

(High damage + Autothrusters takes out the Pancake no problem)

It's great against Brobots

(Incredible blockers while the rest of my friends eat you from behind.)

It fortresses

(I can go on about this for a while)

It flies in formation

(Outdamaging and outmaneuvering BBBBZ while at it)

It flies disparately

(Well, it's 80% Flanker. If I choose to go team Chaos, I can still concentrate fire)

It can switch between any of these strategies whenever convenient

(The trick is not to choose the path to victory. It is to choose so that all paths are victory)

It can cut through armor

(And still slice a tomato)

It very clearly doesn't fly against every list identically. If you go up against IG88B with the same tactics as going against Chiraneu, he will feed your charred husk to the droid revolt.

However, in every (non-mirror) match-up I've seen, there is a way to fly it that nets you the advantage.

Heck, there are 2 points left for deciding Initiative (the Choice of initiative should always net you an advantage, knowing that you shouldn't always choose yourself) that you can use to customize the fleet.

It's a difficult fleet to fly, as if you make the wrong decision, or misread your opponent, you may be flying into a different situation than you thought, and take a substantial hit before you can recover.

However, that's the definition of getting out-flown, and if I'm going to take a hit, that's the hit I want to take.

With so many options,

Any thoughts? Any fleet-builds you'd like me to theoretically take on? Any questions or expansions of the thought you'd like to see?

How would it do against the new future meta list, 4 Tempests w/ AC and Dark Curse?

Or just a straight TIE swarm that has higher PS, something like:

Howlrunner - Squad Leader

Mithril - Predator

DC

Obsidian Pilot x3

How would it do against the new future meta list, 4 Tempests w/ AC and Dark Curse?

Personally, I think 4 Tempests with Cluster Missiles are more likely, as they remove the Pancake metagame directly.

Still, the advantage of the Alpha + Howl fleet is that it has very similar damage (expectation of 2.68 damage per Interceptor at Range 2-3, and Howlrunner vs Dark Curse are even), but the Interceptors have much better mobility.

Honestly, I can Fortress against that fleet. I have a distinct advantage at Range 3, and once I spring the trap, I am very likely to get a kill.

After that, I can harass from the flanks, as they're up against the edge of the board, and have to turn predictably to not-die.

Alternatively, I can simply escape after dealing massive damage, and re-group elsewhere on the board, while they spend many turns getting out of the corner I fortressed them into.

Alternatively, I could simply joust against them. I have good defenses at Range 3, out-damage their fleet, am incredible at blocking them, and can pepper them with enough dice at Range 1 to really be a problem.

Vs the Cluster Missile version, my Fortressing trap is a very strong contender. The way I've got it set up, the folks who get Target Locked at Range 3 are going to be farther away than the folks who aren't for the actual combat step. The TIE Advanced is better at slow-rolling than the Interceptor, but it's not exactly good at that tactic either.

Besides, they'll want to close the gap to Range 1-2, and all they've seen me do thus far is to sit still. They will close the gap, and I will be at their side or behind them.

Or just a straight TIE swarm that has higher PS, something like:

Howlrunner - Squad Leader

Mithril - Predator

DC

Obsidian Pilot x3

I prefer Range 3. I defend against more attacks than you do, and my Autothrusters definitely kick in. Range 3 is also a larger area, cutting off your ability to arc-dodge.

You prefer Range 2. We have similar damage (Same dice, but you re-roll one more than I do), but I have less health.

You prefer Range 1. You attack more than I do, and Mauler Mithel kicks in.

I prefer Range 0 (A Furball). My ships move first, and if there is a cluster of collisions, mine are the ones that still have actions.

I have two strategies. The first is an Engage/Disengage/Re-Engage cycle, like a Dual IG-88 list. My superior mobility means that I can keep you running ragged, all while staying at arms' length. I can do this in formation or disjointedly, and both have their benefits.

Your best tactic here is the Matador Turn: a 1 turn followed by a Barrel-Roll so that you basically stay still, but at a 90* angle from where you started. This is almost as effective as a Koiogran in the moment, but doesn't stress you to execute.

The second is to force the collisions. This is inherently riskier, as if I fail, I'm in your best zone of attack, but if I succeed, you're at a severe disadvantage. I can do this in formation, disjointedly, or by forcing you into position by Fortressing.

Your best tactic here is to disjoint your own Swarm. That hurts Howlrunner, but keeps the damage of a part of your fleet high, and allows you to skirt the scrim.

If I see you doing this, then I can pounce on a single part of your fleet, decimating it with the full force of mine, unless I attempt to do this disjointedly. Still, I recover into a cohesive unit faster than you do, thanks to being so bloody mobile.

Ok, here's a question:

7x binyare pirate with dead man's switch.

'We'll crack that fortress one way or another'

Ok, here's a question:

"It's great against Brobots

(Incredible blockers while the rest of my friends eat you from behind.)"

Would you care to elaborate on that?

I do fly dual IGs and I have had few issues dealing with 5 ships builds. I usually don't have an issue with blocking since I use advanced sensors. Interceptors, especially low PS ones, rarely get behind me either. Formations usually crumble as well because I use ion cannons (so only 1 hit needs to get through and with predator, that's not a problem).

I have had few if no issues dealing with top of the line Soontirs (push the limit, stealth device, autothruster, title), so I would be curious to see how you maneuver your Alphas against IGs.

You have a massive advantage at Range 2-3, if you use 88_B and HLCs, like everyone else. This is Baron Fel's preferred hunting ground, so I can imagine you deal with him often and easily.

This is also one of the few match-ups where my Interceptors have a foe that is faster than them, though I can technically match you in a pure going-forward race.

However, in my experience, the Aggressor has one crippling weakness: It cannot slow down. It moves a minimum of 2 forward (as it has a large base, which carries it farther). This means that you have very little agency in deciding where engagement occurs.

Moreover, the main strategy of the Aggressor tends to be a cycle of Disengagement and Re-engagement. I'm fast/mobile enough to keep up with your disengagement, so if you attempt your most practiced tactics, I can make you regret it. BBBBZ cannot.

I aim to crowd you at Range 1. Your only recourse is a Segnor's Loop / Koiogran, or to run into me and lose your action.

• If you choose the former, your maneuvers on the following turn are easily predicted. Moreover, if I can learn that this is your inclination, I can act against it fairly easily, through a number of tricks. It's a fairly predictable move, after all. Your Advanced Sensors make it a mite more difficult, though.
• If you choose the latter, then you've ceded me the advantage of a Range 1 fight, and your actions.
• Either way, I'm concentrating wholly on one of your two Aggressors, giving you the advantage of independence in exchange for my advantage of speed of damage.

I therefore have two paths to victory.

• Successfully predict (or better, dictate) which of the two options you will use, and act accordingly
• Act so that either of your options is still in my favor.

If you have allowed the construction of an obstacle field, that is decidedly in my favor.

However, I can assume that you brought Debris instead, and are scattering it across the board to prevent that advantage.

Sadly, this too is to my advantage, as the Stress from Debris impacts you far more negatively than it does me, preventing the Segors and Koiograns that we've already established as vital to your success, if I crowd you at R1.

To ensure that they are not simply scattered to the four winds, I will deem that YOU have Initiative, and therefore place the first obstacle.

If you place it anywhere but on your third of the field, I can reach it with the timing so that you must fight me there.

If you place it on your third of the field, I can cluster my three in a more centralized location, so it's still a loose grouping of 4. I can still reach it fairly swiftly, but it's still a near thing.

Alternatively, I am also happy as punch to play in an open field. It makes formation flight and diverted flight easier, and leaves my options far more open.

Et c. Et c. Et c.

It is, admittedly, a harder match-up for the fleet, as it must rely on my ability to play against you, rather than merely your fleet. It's also practically a guaranteed loss for me if I go with a Fortressed start.

7x binyare pirate with dead man's switch.

'We'll crack that fortress one way or another'

I have the mobility advantage

I have the advantage at everything but Range 1

I can kill at least one of them from long-range, meaning you either damage your own fleet, or can't concentrate fire.

You do tie me for initiative, but in the 50% instance where I win the choice, I give it to you, negating your ability to Target Lock on initial engagements, and giving me the ability to arc-dodge you.

Engage/Disengage/Re-Engage like a Brobot fleet.

Very much not going to Fortress against your swarm, though, lol. Nor would I if you spammed Assault Missiles at me, incidentally.

Your Bruce Lee quote reminds me of a similar one that I had in my mind preparing for Regionals: "Beware the man with one gun." ("because he knows how to use it" is implied). I practiced with my two Defender list a ton, and I felt like you feel about your list, that the game was mine to lose. I had a plan to beat anything, I just had to outplay my opponent.

Against your list, I'd try to stop at Range 3 and blast Howlrunner with a pair of HLCs. That probably puts me in range 2 of most of your Alphas, but I feel pretty good about my ability to survive that barrage. You're probably doing 9-10 damage, opposed by 4x 3-dice attacks, so if things don't swing too far one way or another, we'll say 5 damage gets through on Rexler Brath, less if you focus on Vessery, or some of your shots are at Range 3, or some shots can be arc dodged with a Barrel Roll. Now it gets interesting, depending on where you are, I can either go short, try and disengage, or K-turn. You can set a trap for one of those, but not all of them. If I guess wrong, Rexler Brath is probably dead, and Vessery gets a shot that probably doesn't kill an Interceptor. If I guess right, I probably take your ship count down to 3, and things get very tough on the Interceptors. Either way, it's basically correctly guessing the opponents moves, and, as always, proper use of asteroids. And as you said in your initial post, that's an okay way to lose.

Your Bruce Lee quote reminds me of a similar one that I had in my mind preparing for Regionals: "Beware the man with one gun." ("because he knows how to use it" is implied). I practiced with my two Defender list a ton, and I felt like you feel about your list, that the game was mine to lose. I had a plan to beat anything, I just had to outplay my opponent.

Against your list, I'd try to stop at Range 3 and blast Howlrunner with a pair of HLCs. That probably puts me in range 2 of most of your Alphas, but I feel pretty good about my ability to survive that barrage. You're probably doing 9-10 damage, opposed by 4x 3-dice attacks, so if things don't swing too far one way or another, we'll say 5 damage gets through on Rexler Brath, less if you focus on Vessery, or some of your shots are at Range 3, or some shots can be arc dodged with a Barrel Roll. Now it gets interesting, depending on where you are, I can either go short, try and disengage, or K-turn. You can set a trap for one of those, but not all of them. If I guess wrong, Rexler Brath is probably dead, and Vessery gets a shot that probably doesn't kill an Interceptor. If I guess right, I probably take your ship count down to 3, and things get very tough on the Interceptors. Either way, it's basically correctly guessing the opponents moves, and, as always, proper use of asteroids. And as you said in your initial post, that's an okay way to lose.

I'd love to see your list, so I can tell you how I'd try to counterplay it.

Defenders have the advantage of being weird, though, lol

Shoot, I forgot to list it.

Rexler Brath, HLC, Predator, Ion Pulse Missile, Hull Upgrade

Colonel Vessery, HLC, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device

So how many tournaments have you won with that squad?

So how many tournaments have you won with that squad?

Sadly, I don't have a tournament scene in my area.

Still, though, I do well on Vassal, and with local leagues that I've set up.

So how many tournaments have you won with that squad?

Variants of this list have won 2 local tournaments, took 2nd in a Store Championship, and top 4 in the KC Regional where it was undefeated until I lost to the eventual winner.

That is pretty good. The squad like good on theory, but you need to know your dials well and be able to read the opponent. A single mistake will cost you quite a lot. I like this squad.

Shoot, I forgot to list it.

Rexler Brath, HLC, Predator, Ion Pulse Missile, Hull Upgrade

Colonel Vessery, HLC, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device

If Brath goes, so does Vessery's pilot ability.

Brath is also the more expensive of the two, and the less survivable.

Strategically, he's the point to kill.

Now, both ships have an advantage at Range 3, though less so than the Aggressors'. Still, I want to engage as closely as possible.

That is to say, you're not getting your pot-shots at Howlrunner.

The Defender's dial is a thing of beauty, excepting only its stress management and turning radius. At Range 1, I can easily exploit the turning flaw, forcing you to use your White Koiogran to stay relevant.

Your fleet is equipped to deal with single targets. To that end, I'll fly in as a swarm, playing to your expectations.

However, I shall not linger at Range 3. My ships are fast enough to close the gap and recover.

I feel confident in my ability to overpower your fleet. I throw more dice per round, and have more overall HP, so it's really a mobility game. You've got moves, but mine are Interceptors, and that ain't nothin'

Looks good, not like good.

How would it fare against a BBBB squad, I wonder. Have you had a chance to play one yet?

What's your strat vs the scum 3-hawk and Z list?

Shoot, I forgot to list it.

Rexler Brath, HLC, Predator, Ion Pulse Missile, Hull Upgrade

Colonel Vessery, HLC, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device

If Brath goes, so does Vessery's pilot ability.

Brath is also the more expensive of the two, and the less survivable.

Strategically, he's the point to kill.

Now, both ships have an advantage at Range 3, though less so than the Aggressors'. Still, I want to engage as closely as possible.

That is to say, you're not getting your pot-shots at Howlrunner.

The Defender's dial is a thing of beauty, excepting only its stress management and turning radius. At Range 1, I can easily exploit the turning flaw, forcing you to use your White Koiogran to stay relevant.

Your fleet is equipped to deal with single targets. To that end, I'll fly in as a swarm, playing to your expectations.

However, I shall not linger at Range 3. My ships are fast enough to close the gap and recover.

I feel confident in my ability to overpower your fleet. I throw more dice per round, and have more overall HP, so it's really a mobility game. You've got moves, but mine are Interceptors, and that ain't nothin'

Maybe you can overpower it, maybe you can't. The Defender list is certainly more efficient against small model count lists because of the action economy that Vessery provides, but it's pretty decent overall. The small footprint and fast movement, along with Barrel Roll, make it tougher for swarms to concentrate fire on than one might expect. I'm not too broken up about killing an Alpha instead of Howl in the opening exchange. In actuality, I'd probably just kill whomever I had the highest probability of removing. Rex is absolutely the primary target, but the list is a little tricky. You kill Rex, and then Lone Wolf becomes an automatic instead of a sometimes ability. Combine that with the Stealth Device and it becomes very difficult to get damage past in sub-optimal conditions. You can always spend a shot to try and break the SD when you have a chance, but then you're splitting firepower. Killing Rex first, ASAP is the right move, it just makes things hard in a different way later.

As you suggest, the K-turn is almost always used instead of trying to make a tight turn. This is great because it builds distance, which HLCs enjoy. The interesting things about flying against swarms with these Defenders is you're sort of left with a couple options for dealing with them. You can work your range advantage with the HLC to kill from afar and get lots of extra green dice, or you can work in close where arc dodging becomes possible using Barrel Roll, and repeated K-turns can brutalize the opposing squad. You also have to take into account that any kill I make won't be firing back, so offense is a good defense. Overall, though, I think the game of whoever makes the most good moves, assuming dice aren't too far off either way. Both squads have clear paths of victory over the other, they just have to make more right decisions.

How would it fare against a BBBB squad, I wonder. Have you had a chance to play one yet?

I sadly haven't had a chance to play against live people runnning BBBB variants. I have gamed it out against myself quite a bit, though. I've found it pretty winnable. I think the best strategy is to approach through asteroids if possible. The limited B-wing dial and the larger footprint of the BBBB squad usually means it has to either break formation, no longer effectively concentrating fire, or it takes some damage and loses actions, which I'm also okay with.

How would it fare against a BBBB squad, I wonder. Have you had a chance to play one yet?

B-wings historically like Range 1 and Range 3.

If these have Advanced Sensors, then they definitely prefer Range 1.

Still, they don't have much in the way of damage mitigation, relying on straight HP to dance the numbers.

But still, even though I outnumber them, I prefer fighting this list at Range 3, 'cause the Advanced Sensors en-masse with that Barrel-Roll... the only advantage to my lower PS that remains is the complete knowledge of the boardstate in the planning phase, while they have maximized their PS advantages.

But still, they only have 8 HP and 1 agility. They melt pretty quickly. I've just got to cripple one of them before they melt one of mine first.

They have the advantage in the obstruction fields, so I need to keep it sparse. To that end, they have initiative.

I am faster than they are, and will be using my 5 Koiogran, or Turn+Boost to heckle where I perceive their flanks to be.

Heck, I can fortress up, and flee rather than springing a trap.

Of course, so can the Advanced BBBBs. Who place on the field after me. And have initiative, so they break ties in elimination rounds.

If we joust, its heavy casualties on both sides, very quickly. I am at a disadvantage. If we don't, I win. Ergo, don't joust.

What's your strat vs the scum 3-hawk and Z list?

Torkil Mux (19)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Palob Godalhi (20)

Predator (3)

Blaster Turret (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

Moldy Crow (3)

Dace Bonearm (23)

Predator (3)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Total: 100

Well, firstly that list Hertz. If it catches me at Range 1-2 and in-arc.

The trick is, therefore, to engage at Range 3, or out of arc.

You're flying HWKs. You're flying them quite well, as I understand, but its the worst maneuver dial in the game, with no aid to help them.

I have autothrusters. So long as I avoid Palob, I'm doing pretty good, even with your predation.

Obstacles in a cluster, because you will land on a rock, and I will laugh.

Heck, Mux might as well be a Rebel Operative, 'cause my ships are already PS 1.

Palob is definitely the biggest threat to me. Autothruster + Focus will negate your attack. Autothrusters on their own wont.

What would you change with 3 interceptors instead of 4? I am thinking about putting Soontir in and beefing them up a little (I only have 3 interceptors). Would you put another ship in, maybe backstabber? And some stealth in howl, maybe.

What would you change with 3 interceptors instead of 4? I am thinking about putting Soontir in and beefing them up a little (I only have 3 interceptors). Would you put another ship in, maybe backstabber? And some stealth in howl, maybe.

Well, you'd be sacrificing some of the versatility to improve specific strategies.

Fel is an absolute monster at Range 3, and is the ultimate arc-dodger, (and a very very nasty ship), but cannot block, cannot fortress, and is weakest at Range 1.

Backstabber is almost as good as an interceptor when flying divergently, and is cheaper, but is worse at flying in formation or fortressing, and isn't as defensible at Range 3, and cannot block.

Et cetera et cetera.

One of the most interesting things I've seen is taking out the Autothrusters to turn one Interceptor into a Sigma Squadron Pilot with a Fire-Control System or Stygium Particle Accelerator.