A simple, 1 ability title to make the X-wing fighter OP

By Rakaydos, in X-Wing

Rogue Squadron (x points) Title, Xwing only.

Whenever you gain or spend a target lock, you may take a free Evade action.

Works especially well with:

Tarn (evade token whenever he's shot at)

Hobbie (removes a stress and gains an evade token when spendin a lock)

Luke (Evade token and 1 focus result when target locking)

Biggs (not dying make his ability stronger)

R5K6 (When spending a target lock, evade token and a chance of a second evade token)

R7T1 (boost and evade when cornered)

R7 Astromech (defensive target locks for more evade tokens!)

R2D2 (not dying lets you use him longer)

R5D8 (same)

Torpedos (because heck, you're burning target locks already...)

Edited by Rakaydos

If you get an evade when you "gain or spend" you will get 2 per turn. Way too strong.

If you get an evade when you "gain or spend" you will get 2 per turn. Way too strong.

If the evade was a free action instead you wouldn't be able to trigger it more than once in a turn, and it would make K turning with them willy nilly not as viable, and perhaps incentivize some Adrenaline Rush play.

If you get an evade when you "gain or spend" you will get 2 per turn. Way too strong.

unless you dont have the target in arc, in which case it's only 1. and that's if there's a target in range you havnt already target locked.

Considering it's locked to the Xwing's easilly outmaneuered, fragile chassis...

Hey I can do this too.

PC TIE Defender

TIE Defender only (cause we all know that its the best ship in all of star wars ever!!)

0pts Title

Your opponent cannot win the game.

Edited by ShakeZoola72

If you get an evade when you "gain or spend" you will get 2 per turn. Way too strong.

unless you dont have the target in arc, in which case it's only 1. and that's if there's a target in range you havnt already target locked.

Considering it's locked to the Xwing's easilly outmaneuered, fragile chassis...

I've played XXXX with 4 R7's before, it's certainly a playable build currently. Giving everything an evade token might make it top tier, and 2 would be game breaking IMO.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

Hey I can do this too.

PC TIE Defender

TIE Defender only (cause we all know that its the best ship in all of star wars ever!!)

0pts Title

Your opponent cannot win the game.

Isnt that just Biggs?

If you get an evade when you "gain or spend" you will get 2 per turn. Way too strong.

unless you dont have the target in arc, in which case it's only 1. and that's if there's a target in range you havnt already target locked.

Considering it's locked to the Xwing's easilly outmaneuered, fragile chassis...

I've played XXXX with 4 R7's before, it's certainly a playable build currently. Giving everything an evade token might make it top tier, and 2 would be game breaking IMO.

How about if it gave a free evade -action- when placing or spending a target lock, thus limiting it to 1/turn?

Do you think it would be viable on other combinations than just the R7 swarm?

Edited by Rakaydos

If you get an evade when you "gain or spend" you will get 2 per turn. Way too strong.

unless you dont have the target in arc, in which case it's only 1. and that's if there's a target in range you havnt already target locked.

Considering it's locked to the Xwing's easilly outmaneuered, fragile chassis...

I've played XXXX with 4 R7's before, it's certainly a playable build currently. Giving everything an evade token might make it top tier, and 2 would be game breaking IMO.

How about if it gave a free evade -action- when placing or spending a target lock, thus limiting it to 1/turn?

Do you think it would be viable on other combinations than just the R7 swarm?

If you could fit it into a Tarnation build (6 Z's, Tarn + R7, with a point to spare) that would be good.

Really just anything that has an X Wing would benefit from it. R7 would synergize super well with it because you'd get more options to spend a TL to get the free evade action, and the defensive R7 ability happens before the defender rolls defense dice, hell, even before the attacker can modify their own dice. Whereas if you didn't have an R7 and you didn't spend your action on a TL and your opponent had PS on you, you wouldn't get a chance to spend the TL (even to modify no dice) and you'd get the evade token too late.

I'm kind of of the opinion that on an X-Wing, the R7 is the best droid in general for X Wings. However, with a buff in general to the X Wing's defensive capabilities you might see more use out of generic R2's or even generic R5's.

That one red droid that's essentially a worse version of FCS would see more play too.

If you get an evade when you "gain or spend" you will get 2 per turn. Way too strong.

If the evade was a free action instead you wouldn't be able to trigger it more than once in a turn, and it would make K turning with them willy nilly not as viable, and perhaps incentivize some Adrenaline Rush play.

One free evade per turn (with TL) would improve agility, increase the Xs action economy significantly and emphasize the X Wings offensive potential. Definitely worth play testing.

Why not just include the wording "Once per turn"? That'd solve the double evade issue.

You should make it a modification instead, and also allow it on the E Wing.

This would buff all of them and not help Corran very much, as it would deny him Engines and it being a free evade action wouldn't mesh well with Push the Limit. Might encourage lighter, different Corran builds to take advantage of it.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

This makes Dutch an auto include with every x wing list.

rather have autothrusters

This makes Dutch an auto include with every x wing list.

Dutch is already in every Rebel list I play.

I don't think I would tie it to target locks because a lot of the better X pilots like EPT's that give them offensive rerolls anyways. If there was an ept that just gave you permanent offensive focus then it would be really solid.

You should make it a modification instead, and also allow it on the E Wing.

This would buff all of them and not help Corran very much, as it would deny him Engines and it being a free evade action wouldn't mesh well with Push the Limit. Might encourage lighter, different Corran builds to take advantage of it.

The Ewing doesnt have the same exact issues the Xwing does, and is less iconically identified with Rogue Squadron. Better to keep the Xwing title Xwing only, and if the Ewing really needs it have a unique Ewing title.

You should make it a modification instead, and also allow it on the E Wing.

This would buff all of them and not help Corran very much, as it would deny him Engines and it being a free evade action wouldn't mesh well with Push the Limit. Might encourage lighter, different Corran builds to take advantage of it.

The Ewing doesnt have the same exact issues the Xwing does, and is less iconically identified with Rogue Squadron. Better to keep the Xwing title Xwing only, and if the Ewing really needs it have a unique Ewing title.

IF the E Wing needs it? The generic E Wing is a slightly better version of an already overcosted ship.

It needs it more than the X Wing does IMO.

You should make it a modification instead, and also allow it on the E Wing.

This would buff all of them and not help Corran very much, as it would deny him Engines and it being a free evade action wouldn't mesh well with Push the Limit. Might encourage lighter, different Corran builds to take advantage of it.

The Ewing doesnt have the same exact issues the Xwing does, and is less iconically identified with Rogue Squadron. Better to keep the Xwing title Xwing only, and if the Ewing really needs it have a unique Ewing title.

IF the E Wing needs it? The generic E Wing is a slightly better version of an already overcosted ship.

It needs it more than the X Wing does IMO.

It's still a subject for a different thread, but I could see an "Ewing Series 4" modification that directly buff's the Ewings hull and gives a resistance to ship crits...

Hey I can do this too.

PC TIE Defender

TIE Defender only (cause we all know that its the best ship in all of star wars ever!!)

0pts Title

Your opponent cannot win the game.

Funny that you say this, because in that same PC game, there is a fighter created specifically as a TIE Defender killer. :)

In fact, I would actually like to have something that makes the TIE Defender resemble it's awesomeness, only for Epic format.

Something like a title

TIE/D X7 (epic icon)

Title. TIE Defender only.

Treat all white maneuvers in your dial as if they were green. Treat all red maneuvers in your dial as if they were white.

Your action bar gains (boost) and (evade) icons.

Your upgrade bar gains 2 (system) icons.

At the beginning of the activation phase you may assign a (weapons disabled) token to your ship. If you do so, recover one shield token.

Cost: 15 points.

And for balance reasons, its counter, of course:

Tractor Beam (epic icon)

System. Small ship only. Attack 4 Range [1-2]

Attack(Focus): Discard a Focus token to perform this attack. If this attack hits, cancel all dice results; the defender gets an ion token and a stress token, and his agility score is reduced by 1 until the end of the round; you may then perform a (torpedo) or (missile) attack on the defender.

Cost: 20 points.

Edited by Azrapse

I like it in principle, though I second making it a free evade action, to make stress relevant and limit it to once per round.

I also like the small buff to the early droids it could offer.

Yes, Dutch becomes really strong, but given I don't see him in consistently winning lists, I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.

Dutch can already be really good bordering on great with R5-K6 (yeah, I went there) if the green dice gods smile on you. Throwing out up to 3 free target locks to friendlies per turn with warthog builds can really have an impact. I have had this happen repeatedly in games.

This is probably the most interesting fix I've seen to date short of the discounted-modifications ones.

Is it OP? Hm. It certainly has some interesting interactions.

For the high-PS pilots, and those that can spend TLs defensively (Hello, R7), the ideal is to take the lock one turn, and then spend it the next - that way you're getting three tokens out of a single action. Lower-skill pilots will be getting shot at before they get to fire, so they're best off calling their shots and hoping their target is in arc, then simply discarding the lock (either through fire or R7 or simply ditching it) in order to do so again next round - thus ensuring they have the token before the Combat Phase begins.

Oh, and Tarn gets a free Evade every round he's ever shot at, even without R7, without ever spending the action. I'm pretty sure he and Luke become a touch insane, whilst Wedge and Wes become offensive terrors (And Wes just rubs it in by nicking your tokens back, to boot). Heh.

Makes R7-Y1 give you three actions, one of them guaranteed defensive, when you need them most. Not sure if that's actually a problem, because it's unique, and ends up being the opposite of autothrusters - you want to nail him at range, or with a turret. ;-)

While I suspect it's a little too handy at 0 points, I can't see anywhere that it breaks the game in half, either.

That you can get three tokens over two turns off a single action (Or, as has been pointed out, even more than that if Dutch is in play) is definitely the bit that makes me wonder if this isn't a little too versatile, though. But how to limit it? I see three options:

1. "When you gain a blue Target Lock token..." Guarantees that everyone gets their Evade the turn they perform the action before Combat starts, so is friendlier to rookies and Tarn, without boosting the stronger ships so much. Hobbie is left sad unless he has support, but then, destressing on the K-turn is pretty good once you've buffed the TL to be worth taking anyway, right?

2. "When you perform a Target Lock Action..." Nerfs Dutch, Tarn, and R7-Y1 shenanigans, over and above 1. Possibly too harsh; if Dutch ends up the lynchpin to an X-wing synergy build, well heck, well done that man. ;)

3. "When you spend a Target Lock Action..." makes R7 seriously attractive. Otherwise boosts mostly the ships you wanted to help the least; the top-PS pilots who were already pretty good get more durable, while rookies either take R7 or only ever get to use their evade on swarms. On the other hand, R7-type tricks aside, it's the one that rewards good flying the most - you get the evade for having the foe in arc. I like the good-flying reward, but it's helping the wrong pilots in the process. Less keen on that one.

... I made that list in a logical order of options, but conveniently enough it's ended up ranked as my order of preference for how it helps the game, too. #1 certainly helps cut back on action efficiency and odd interactions, whilst keeping the most other options viable, so is definitely the best from my point of view.

One nitpick, though: Rogue squadron was a bunch of aces. Perhaps a ship-designation title ala the X1 and BTL-A4 is the way to go here, so there isn't the temptation to rob the poor beleaguered Rookies of the upgrade?

Rogue Squadron Pilot then can be the PS6-with-elite X-wing cardboard that comes in the box alongside the titles instead, of course. ;)

Edited by Reiver

Hey I can do this too.

PC TIE Defender

TIE Defender only (cause we all know that its the best ship in all of star wars ever!!)

0pts Title

Your opponent cannot win the game.

Funny that you say this, because in that same PC game, there is a fighter created specifically as a TIE Defender killer. :)

In fact, I would actually like to have something that makes the TIE Defender resemble it's awesomeness, only for Epic format.

Something like a title

TIE/D X7 (epic icon)

Title. TIE Defender only.

Treat all white maneuvers in your dial as if they were green. Treat all red maneuvers in your dial as if they were white.

Your action bar gains (boost) and (evade) icons.

Your upgrade bar gains 2 (system) icons.

At the beginning of the activation phase you may assign a (weapons disabled) token to your ship. If you do so, recover one shield token.

Cost: 15 points.

And for balance reasons, its counter, of course:

Tractor Beam (epic icon)

System. Small ship only. Attack 4 Range [1-2]

Attack(Focus): Discard a Focus token to perform this attack. If this attack hits, cancel all dice results; the defender gets an ion token and a stress token, and his agility score is reduced by 1 until the end of the round; you may then perform a (torpedo) or (missile) attack on the defender.

Cost: 20 points.

TIE/D x7 is cute. You might be horrified to learn that it's probably worth more in the 5-7pts range, though. Defenders were already overcosted; the extra dial stuff is probably worth ~3pts at most (It was already the best dial on a small ship; there's only so much better you can be), though PTL probably breaks it a bit (PTL-kturn, whee!), and the regen is 3-4 points too, if R2-D2 and similar effects are worked out. Then again, the new K-wing just gets it as an elite upgrade, so maybe it's even fairer than that, too.

The regen thing alone is actually pretty neat! It would actually work as a real title too. Would make them endgame horrors, and that's fine by me. ;) Odd anti-synergy with Vessery and Rexler, but perhaps that's all to the good - they were the only ones even roughly worth their points to start with anyway.

Edited by Reiver

Hey I can do this too.

PC TIE Defender

TIE Defender only (cause we all know that its the best ship in all of star wars ever!!)

0pts Title

Your opponent cannot win the game.

Funny that you say this, because in that same PC game, there is a fighter created specifically as a TIE Defender killer. :)

In fact, I would actually like to have something that makes the TIE Defender resemble it's awesomeness, only for Epic format.

Something like a title

TIE/D X7 (epic icon)

Title. TIE Defender only.

Treat all white maneuvers in your dial as if they were green. Treat all red maneuvers in your dial as if they were white.

Your action bar gains (boost) and (evade) icons.

Your upgrade bar gains 2 (system) icons.

At the beginning of the activation phase you may assign a (weapons disabled) token to your ship. If you do so, recover one shield token.

Cost: 15 points.

And for balance reasons, its counter, of course:

Tractor Beam (epic icon)

System. Small ship only. Attack 4 Range [1-2]

Attack(Focus): Discard a Focus token to perform this attack. If this attack hits, cancel all dice results; the defender gets an ion token and a stress token, and his agility score is reduced by 1 until the end of the round; you may then perform a (torpedo) or (missile) attack on the defender.

Cost: 20 points.

Interesting on the Tractor Beam:

You could actually add it to the game which something like this.

Tractor Beam:

5 pts

Cannon Slot

3 Attack, Range 1-2

Spend a Focus to Attack. On a hit ignore all results and assign 1 ion token (1 Damage) and 1 stress token to the target, for the rest of round subtract 1 from targets agility.

Would definitely make it useful and fluffy.