I was theory crafting in my head about an upgraded corvette, using the CR90A + Enhanced Armorments & Veteran Captian, but it comes out at the same cost as a Neb B Escort Frigate.

So I was wondering, what does the community think about this?

The corvette might pull ahead in well-roundedness. 2 red and 1 blue on each arc (except the rear) and with the better manuverability + responsiveness than the Neb, and more all around shields. (Then you have the whole mentality of "its just a corvette, I can sneeze on it and kill it, and it can't really harm me).

The neb has the same 4 red dice potential, but with arguably worse arcs and also loses a blue dice. It is sub-par in every way except survivability. A better engineering value, plus the double brace, means that you need 12 damage through the weak side arc in a single blow to kill it, while the corvette just needs 8 to one shot it. And it can repair more shields with its engineering command, and a AA value of 2.

I am conflicted... 168 points of Nebs or Cr90's? (57 points each)

corv for pure anti-ship, Neb for squadron support/versitility (though I don't think you need the captain and don't know if EA is a good idea or not)

one round of vet captain does not a well rounded ship make

and by squadron support I mean both the increased value and the additional AA. I don't like relying on AA purely for anti-squadron because it's simply not very powerful except over a long period of time, or used in support of your engaged squadrons.

the question then becomes: are you using enough squadrons in your list to merit the support?

Probably not, the only strike craft I own are the 4 core set x-wings...

But what ship might be better? 5 red dice from a dual arc shot (3&2) or 4 from the neb at long range (take the cf command into account), and the corvette adds in blue dice at medium range.

I am still conflicted fickledice.

mon mothma and corv it up

I love nebs, but I wouldn't use them without more than a few squadrons running around for them to support

I need you guys to convince me if this is a good idea or a bad idea, cause while I think upgrades are powerful in this game, I dunno about upgrades on a cr90. Then again, more CR90's means it might to be hard to get all the fire concentrated.

I have found CR90-A's with EA to be extremely effective, although I've only used them in swarmy lists.

In my opinion you can only put so many upgrades on a ship. Too many makes it worth too many points. That being said I feel both are a decent option depending on the rest of your fleet.

I'm not sure about the conflict here. You can easily get two NebB's and two CR90's in a list, very little on upgrades but still add in fighters. So, why make it either or?

As for the discussion about the two in a void just debating the merits of one over the other.

NebB with 3x Shields to the front and double brace tokens can take up to fourteen hits (not counting the two Hull Crit) on the front arc in a single shot and still survive (or a combination of the damage over two attacks), and a max of ten hits on that glass jaw side shield. The Vette doesn't have Brace, so it is looking to redirect a max of four shields hits and three hull hits to survive, for a total of eight damage to go boom on the front or either side (seven if you redirect to the rear shield), and that's only assuming the Redirect doesn't get taken out with a Precision strike (reduce numbers by one if it does). The Evade tokens give the Vette one extra hit point, if it gets to use them, but it becomes less a sure thing in Medium range and that's the range the CR90 needs to get into for its Blue dice to be in range, while the NebB can be out to Long range and keep full firepower and probably even get a chance to use that Evade token. For durability, you've got to give a big boost to the NebB.

Your Firepower discussion focussed on the CR90 having an edge thanks to Blue dice over Red Dice on the NebB, but that also ties into durability and maneuverability, as the only way to take advantage of those Blue dice, is to get closer (CLOSER!) to those big Imperial ships, and that's not always easy or safe to do, especially against a VSD2. And I don't know about you, but I remember the first time I took out Doddonna's Pride, I never actually got within Medium range, but I do like to think I'm a little better a captain than I was at that point. NebB's have equal firepower to any VSD at Long range, and superior firepower to both the GSD and CR90. So, you can give a slight edge to the CR90 in firepower, but that edge causes the durability issues to be even more pronounced in favor of the NebB.

Maneuverability, CR90 wins by a huge margin. That edge is the biggest saving grace for the Vette, as it is the biggest reason why the ship really even sees much action, as it helps increase its firepower by letting the scooter get into good firing positions on weaker shields, increases its durability by helping the little guy not end up in a bad enemy firing arc and also run away quickly to reduce the enemies chances to even fire on it. Of course, this speed can also work against the CR90 in mixed fleet actions, as it makes it harder to take advantage of the Vette's superior maneuverability when you're trying to keep your fleet in a solid firing formation. So the Vette really shines in wolf pack builds of pure CR90's, or as more of a support ship loaded up with Tantive 4 or Leia.

And obviously, unless you're running the Support NebB, the NebB wins out by a sizable margin in Squadron and Anti-Squadron abilities over the CR90.

As far as fleet builds go, if I'm flying a Space Guppy with either Paragon or Gallant Haven, then I'm running a NebB alongside it with either Salvation or Yavaris to support what the Mark1 is doing. I'm not too sure on a trip NebB build, I only have two each of the Frigate and Corvette so I haven't eve tried either build, but I could see running a five Vette Wolfpack or a trip NebB build if I was so inclined. Obviously, my Vette's are flying fast and without fighters, while my NebB's would stil have a good sized Squadron flight.

Ah wow thanks for taking the time for the write up dude! :)

(oh and I have yet to find a reason to NOT take Mon Mothma. She is just an amazing admiral, she increases my offense by making me use evades on those double hits/hit-crits at all ranges, so i can use my offensive commands more for i can stop more damage than my opponent. ECM's on my AF's really help too. You wont velive how many ACM's or overload pulses I have stopped, or hit-crit bomber rolls i habe rerolled into hits or blanks.)

I am theory crafting building my dual AF build into a 400 point list.

Adding in a third AF is boring, and actually might also weaken my flank-speed stratagem. So i was thinking of the other two ships we currently have, and would like to fit 2-3 of them in with my dual fishies.

I am really liking the idea of 3 red (with the command) out of the front and 2 red out the sides, cant really brace aginst that. And the turn i get the shot off I could use a banked token or the VC to reroll any blank. Thats 5 red dice at long range, and kinda nuters defensive tokens. At medium range the evade token still works thanks to MM, and i add 2 blue dice to the pool.

I am just conflicted... Is adding 10-13 points of upgrades to a 44 point ship (so 1/4th the cost) a wise move? I could almost squeeze in a whole nother corvette, or more x-wings!

But if i have too many ships, they become croweded, and get in eachothers way, obstruct shots, and make manuvering a mess for an unskilled commander like me.

You can see where i am conflicted

Throw on top of that, the Neb is also a small base ship, and costs as much as an upgraded CR90A. Would I be better off with a Neb over a CR90? Maybe... I can't tell.

Athough your post made me start to swing in favor of the CR90a, you make many valid points on the utility of a Neb. Maybe throw in a Redemption with AF2's and some corvettes? Would a mix be advised?

With only four X-Wings, you might not be able to maximize your Neb so I'd go for firepower.

Running Raymus Antilles in your CR90 gives you a big damage-to-cost ratio by constantly combining your concentrate fire dial command with its token. Throw in Mon Mothma and you have a fast, hard-hitting ship that's difficult to pin down.

I fly a double double CR90 & NebB list with a smattering of upgrades and enough fighter cover to be a threat, though mostly wanting to stick close to my ships. My Neb's stick close together, where I can maximize their firepower, one CR90B as Jania's Light which is my flagship with Doddonna (I just can't quit that cheap Crit guy), while the Tantive (CR90A) runs a hook to try and flank. JL either stick close to the Neb's to add her firepower in as well, or goes off as the Objective ship in those enemy scenarios like Intel Sweep or Dangerous Territory. So yes, mixed fleets do work for me.

The thing is, what are you aiming for with your fleet? My Neb's provide the heavy lifting and fighter command, while my Vette's are their to support and add in fire whenever possible, but we primarily stick as close together as possible, just depending on the Objectives and whether or not my one of my CR90's needs to break away for extra points.

I've seen five Vette's be a terror without fighters. I've seen three NebB's with large fighter support do serious damage. And I've seen mixed fleets score major victories as well. But, it's all dependent on the actual focus of your fleet and how you want to fly it, more than which ship is better. Figure out what you want that ship to be doing, and then decide which to use based on which one best fills that need.

Mothma is great for CR90s, but not as much for NebB's in my opinion, we only get a single Evade which is nearly always the Token chosen by Precision dice, so I don't get too many chances to use it except at Long range anyway. Meanwhile, D always does me proud by helping to make sure that every Crit I hit with is maximized.

mon mothma and corv it up

I love nebs, but I wouldn't use them without more than a few squadrons running around for them to support

My gut feeling is to agree with this, with more fighters available the Neb looks more enticing.

But with just 4 XW go CR90, I also like the previous psychological comment of "it's only a corvette" yes it could be overlooked...

Basically though it's whatever suits your style.

A few quick thoughts:

1 - What is the rest of the list? These ships have very different strengths, and it's kind of like asking in a vaccuum if you should run A-wings or B-wings...

2 - Why the veteran captain on a ship that can also take whatever command it needs every turn already? I feel the VC is a waste of points in general (especially when you could just take Leia on the corvette). What do you think this brings to your list?

I guess I am kinda asking in a vacuum, just was wondering in general if people advise putting upgrades on a CR90, or to take the next tier up ship.

Interesting how people don't rate the VC very highly, wonder why that is.

So a few thoughts:

In a vaccuum, I would say don't put upgrades on the corvettes and just take more of them. There's no need to force a points equivalence here. If you are looking at three escort Neb B's (171 points), my advice would be to just take 4 CR90As (176 points) for almost the exact same cost. If you need exact equivalence (as in, you have 171 points available), make it 3 CR90As and 1 CR90B.

Certainly I wouldn't put EA on a corvette; it's 25% more to add 1 red die on most shots. You can literally just buy another corvette for the cost of 4 of that upgrade, and that's way better, especially as magical things seem to happen once you cross the 4 ship barrier right now (you often get to move both first AND last, which is a huge advantage, or if you go second, you get to move multiple ships while your opponent cannot react).

There was another thread about it, but right now, the main upgrades that seem to make sense on corvettes are Leia, Tantive and Jaina's Light titles, and Dodonna's Pride on a CR90B in the right fleet. Beyond that, so few of the upgrades give you bang for your buck on a corvette compared to what you spend that I think you just table them.

The veteran captain essentially reads "pay 3 points to gain one token, once per game, of the command you chose that round only". What does that really do? A re-roll of one die? A single squadron, once? An extra nav token once is probably the best use if you really need to speed up or slow down, but man, it's not like the CR90 is hurting for maneuverability. The extra repair on a CR90 is a jump from a shield to a hull, but if your CR90 is really getting pounded, that won't save you.

I just don't know that a single token is worth 3 points. It's certainly not worth 3 points if your other option is Leia in a fleet running higher command ships (being able to swap the actual dial of an AFII or Nebulon is far more valuable than one token), and it's probably not better than the Tantive or Jaina's light titles. This is where my skepticism comes from.

VC is actually decent for its price. However, the CR90's command rating doesn't allow you to keep more than 1 token at a time. It forces you to use up or discard any existing token you have and this limits its usefulness unless you regard your CR90 as expendable. Cards like Leia or Raymus gives you a relevant ability turn after turn and maximizes that single crew slot that you have.

I could of sworn VC allowed tokens independently of your dial. Maybe I was using it wrong.

You make a great point on how EA is 1/4th the ships cost. Maybe I need to get over the whole "2 dice 2 attacks" mentality, come back to reality, and say that it is not great. But I want it to be! maybe it is not to be... Maybe I should buy some b's.

You are right about the captain, sorry. I won't edit my post above because it will confuse everyone but I mean WHEN you reveal your command, only (and was not proofreading at work). As in, you can't just burn it after a bad roll or something, you have to pro-actively use it, which I find more limiting when it's a one use only per game.

It has a lot of the same problems to me as most ordnance in X-Wing. It's a one-shot you have to pay for, and then pre-declare so you don't always know if it will work / is needed / is ideal.

Edit: On the topic of EA, the place where I would see the most value for it is when you can reliably get two dice worth of firepower out of it. So on something like an AFII with Gunnery Team and EA? I don't personally run it, but that's 17 points to fire twice out of your side arcs with a bare minimum of 4 red dice per shot. Not terrible, maybe even better paired with something like X17 lasers? I just think the CR90, where you win by volume of ships, is not the place to make the ship more expensive, especially as lining up double shots at long range can be dicey with the 'vette and lining up double shots at short range mean your CR90 is at short range of something and thus about to die!

On a side note, I run paragon with EA, and try to get a front+side shot when approaching, and a rear+side shot when passing. I don't run gunnery team because I want my AF to be in a 1 on 1 fight, and actively avoiding their other ships from concentrating fire. Plus, around that time I am swamped with fighters, and the 2 blue AA really come in handy.

I think gunnery team might be a trap of an upgrade on the AF, you might fly into disadvantagious positions to get both of them in arc. Then again, if you have advanced gunnery as your objective, you can darn near one-shot them star destroyers with relative ease.

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, I am planning on using the up-gunned corvettes to tag along with the AF's and strip shields, because people won't brace a 2 dice attack. They would save the brace for the AF, and the corvette could strip most of their shields that turn before the AF fires. Plus if it is turn 2 or 3, I can keep activating corvettes till the victory is activated and moves within my AF's range.

A better comparison would use the 51 point version of the Nebulon with an auto-built-in XI7 Turbolasers.

Neb+XI7 versus CR90+EnhArm+3 point leader

Now we've got ourselves a comp.

...

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, I am planning on using the up-gunned corvettes to tag along with the AF's and strip shields, because people won't brace a 2 dice attack. They would save the brace for the AF, and the corvette could strip most of their shields that turn before the AF fires. Plus if it is turn 2 or 3, I can keep activating corvettes till the victory is activated and moves within my AF's range.

In this case, if you run MM, take a CR90B with overload pulse. Crippling defense tokens will do more for you than anything else in this circumstance.

If you run Dodonna, take a CR90B with Dodonna's pride to try to drop a crippling shot on the star destroyer before the AF goes.

If you run Bel Iblis, stop taking corvettes!