You know I agreed with everything you said, until you went off on this pointless anti-tournament rant.

Side note..I had to just roll my eyes when I saw this thread pop up in the first place.

Then why the hell did you click on it?

I mean my god, doe the fact that people talk about a style of game play you don't actually take part in offend you so much that you need to attack people who take part in it and talk about it?

Newsflash!!! Some people like the competitive play X-Wing offers and want to talk about how to improve it, but guess what, anything discussed in this thread is going to have zero impact on casual play. No one said that acrylic templates need to be the standard for X-Wing as a whole.

So your rant is not only misplaced it's completely uncalled for.

Vanor,

Glad to see we agree on the main point of my post...but allow me explain my rant to you.

Why did i click on it? Because I click on everything that piques my interest be it positively or negatively. I dont believe living in an echo chamber is a good thing and if I have a problem with something I voice it in the way I deem necessary. I am more than happy to lend my support to ideas I agree with and be a (admittedly loud and occasionally crude) voice of dissent to the ideas I dont agree with, even if that choice winds up being unpopular with everyone else.

The 3rd post had it summed up in a single sentence. Elitist first world problems. The issue here isnt that tourney stuff is being discussed. The threads about MoV and are Fat turrets healthy are all very valid and important discussions and can possibly lead to improvements. Forcing everyone to use acrylic templates is not an improvement, its a gate keeping mechanism. No, this suggestion is what is uncalled for as far as I am concerned. It reeks of a sense of elitism I see from a great many "tourney" players on this forum (you are not counted among them in my book.) It is saying "You cannot play with us and compete for our prizes unless you have purchased a prettier version of something you already have." It is saying, "We are more important...the standard issue stuff isnt good enough for us." This is what was bugging me...not that tournaments were being discussed. It's that people should not be allowed to play in an event they paid to go to (or not be allowed to pay the fee and be included in the first place) unless they have a prettier version of tools that were already supplied when the bought into the game. That is offensive. Its not tournaments that I am ranting against. It is the attitude of some players that the tourney scene needs to be held up on some god like pedestal more than it already is and that forcing acrylic templates might be viewed as some sort of "improvement."

EDIT to add: I do actually play in the occasional local tourney as I like the guys who play in my store...I wouldnt be too thrilled about not being able to play with them simply because I dont have the "pretty templates."

I ended the rant with the following:

I know that templates and the damage decks arent the same beast but this still reeks of the attitude that "our games are more important than everyone elses."

That about sums up what i feel this suggestion is stating. I may not have been clear enough when I was posting it but I hope this clears it up a bit. Now we probably shouldnt derail this thread further so if anyone would like to continue this discussion with me you are welcome to PM me. I would be more than happy to engage with you.

And EE thanks for better explaining your opinion. I too feel no one should have to get a special "tourney set" to get to play. I think my opinion on the matter is quite clear.

For competitive play, all tokens and templates need to be made out of 9093-T7511-grade Durasteel.

Forcing everyone to use acrylic templates is not an improvement, its a gate keeping mechanism. No, this suggestion is what is uncalled for as far as I am concerned.

I agree the idea of demanding people use acrylics at a tournament is a bad idea.

It is saying "You cannot play with us and compete for our prizes unless you have purchased a prettier version of something you already have." It is saying, "We are more important...the standard issue stuff isnt good enough for us."

You're reading something that isn't there, nothing even remotely like what you said was part of what the OP said, you added all that in all on your own. Your whole rant was based on an issue that has nothing to do with anything actually said in thread, and was frankly both out of place and completely uncalled for.

Forcing everyone to use acrylic templates is not an improvement, its a gate keeping mechanism. No, this suggestion is what is uncalled for as far as I am concerned.

I agree the idea of demanding people use acrylics at a tournament is a bad idea.

It is saying "You cannot play with us and compete for our prizes unless you have purchased a prettier version of something you already have." It is saying, "We are more important...the standard issue stuff isnt good enough for us."

You're reading something that isn't there, nothing even remotely like what you said was part of what the OP said, you added all that in all on your own. Your whole rant was based on an issue that has nothing to do with anything actually said in thread, and was frankly both out of place and completely uncalled for.

Perhaps. That is certainly a possibility. I am looking at it through the lens of all the threads I read from multiple posters. EE made his intent a bit more clear in a later post. But I still think there are alot of people who see what I see...you dont seem to be one of them and thats fine. I will tell you however when the question is "Should acrylic be the standard for competitive play?" I dont really see how inferring that You cannot play with us and compete for our prizes unless you have purchased a prettier version of something you already have" cannot be reasonably inferred, I mean that IS what is being said. "If this becomes the standard you will NEED them to play." We seem to agree on the main point of my initial post and that is the important thing. We can keep going on about my rant but Ill back down on my contention that it is because tourney players want to feel "important"...rereading the inital post it seems its more to do with the differences in cardboard material...makes my ground a bit more shaky (heh)...but feelings such as mine do simmer around here...perhaps this thread was the wrong place to voice them...

EDIT: formatting issues + You are a good dude Varnor...I agree with you far more often than not...but we arent going to see eye to eye here.

EDIT again: Mea culpa...

FFG should just make and sell their own acrylics. They should have done that from the start. I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that we want the movement and range templates to be accurate. The truth is that the cardboards from the box are not. This is only exacerbated by the use of laser pointers to have absolute accuracy when measuring firing arcs. If we are to expected and adhere to that level of precision for firing arcs why not then movement and range? Acrylics are not perfect but you will need exacting equipment to measure an variance from the perfect measurements. By contrast fairly common deficiencies in the cardboard range and movement templates can be measured with a standard ruler or the naked eye. Players are required to purchase the core set (if they do not then they must purchase acrylic templates anyway) and enough ships to field a team for tournament play anyway so FFG IS requiring players to purchase items to play in a tournaments, acrylics is just one additional thing. At the store championship level (and sometimes Regionals) many of the FFG "rules" regarding mats etc are more relaxed but at the Nationals and Worlds isn't it best to have the best players using the most accurate equipment? FFG could easily accomplish this by creating, requiring and giving acrylic range and movement templates for those levels of tournament play. That way no one has a range ruler 2mm too long or worse yet too short when it really counts.

And if you're just playing at home or the LGS with friends don't worry about it. Use what you've got.

I agree with you far more often than not...but we arent going to see eye to eye here.

I agree with you more often than not as well, and my issue isn't really with your rant, but rather if it belongs here. But yeah we can just agree to disagree and go on with our day.

To get back on topic.

The first thing I'd suggest to anyone who is going to play more than 2 games of X-Wing a month, is to get a set of acrylic templates. I got a set over a year or so ago, and it was the best $20 I spent on X-Wing IMO. They're just simply that much nicer looking and feeling then the cardboard ones. Not that the cardboard ones don't work or are bent or anything.

FFG should just make and sell their own acrylics. They should have done that from the start. I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that we want the movement and range templates to be accurate. The truth is that the cardboards from the box are not. This is only exacerbated by the use of laser pointers to have absolute accuracy when measuring firing arcs. If we are to expected and adhere to that level of precision for firing arcs why not then movement and range? ...

It may be best to leave firing arcs out of the discussion. We know that laser lines can be nice for keeping them straight but they aren't always in exactly the same place from one tile to the next. Hasn't everyone seen a ship with a firing arc printed on it that favors one side of the ship or the other? The other kicker about firing arcs is how they can easily be affected but the slight nudge of a ship that may just knock it off a degree or two.

It would certainly be nice if there was an 'official' set of more durable and precise movement templates and range rulers put out by FFG. They could certainly be nice in a high pressure tournament situation and other places with heavy use but while nice making them the standard, which can only be taken as they MUST be used, can shut out people from even trying a competitive scene.

I agree with you far more often than not...but we arent going to see eye to eye here.

I agree with you more often than not as well, and my issue isn't really with your rant, but rather if it belongs here. But yeah we can just agree to disagree and go on with our day. :)To get back on topic.The first thing I'd suggest to anyone who is going to play more than 2 games of X-Wing a month, is to get a set of acrylic templates. I got a set over a year or so ago, and it was the best $20 I spent on X-Wing IMO. They're just simply that much nicer looking and feeling then the cardboard ones. Not that the cardboard ones don't work or are bent or anything.

That's a good suggestion. Once I can scrounge up $20 I wouldn't mind getting a set. Anyone know where to find an acrylic range ruler? I wasn't able to win one in my last tourney.

I got mine at Applied perspectives a full service of templates and a range ruler is like $20. I'd also highly recommend a range 1 ruler as well. Very handy

There's a fair bit of variance between the acrylic templates, from the Team Covenant ones to the Litko. Now I'm hearing that the old 2014 regional ones and the new 2015 regional templates don't exactly match up.

There's a fair bit of variance between the acrylic templates, from the Team Covenant ones to the Litko. Now I'm hearing that the old 2014 regional ones and the new 2015 regional templates don't exactly match up.

OH NO!!!!

There goes the argument that people are trying to make on why they should be required (ie. standard) for play.

If you aren't moving the same way, then no, it shouldn't be illegal, because if it was, no tournament game would be legal. ... You won't always get the template perfectly between the nubs; those collisions won't always work out perfectly; and yeah, sometimes you might accidentally bump a ship.

This is in the spirit of my original question. I understand that perfection is a tall order, however...

It's only off by a millimeter or so, but this is a game of millimeters.

...which seems to be a contradiction to what you were just saying. I think that **** near everyone here not only agrees with this sentiment, but is borderline fanatic about it. Hence the birth of the credo "fly casual" in an attempt to reign in the crazy about it.

I'm not saying that everyone should be required to get an acrylic set. Hell, I don't even have one. I'm just curious what the opinion of the community here is on the subject, considering how insane some folks get about making things as even as possible before chance comes into play, which is understandable.

I distinctly remember someone here sending his attack and defense dice through an MRI machine to analyze the air bubbles inside. (...and it was awesome!)

First off, sorry if I was a bit harsh with that. There are definitely positives to using acrylics, and to some degree, they are the standard for competitive play (most high level players have a set). But I don't think that they should be anything more than they are. millimeters matter, but the main thing -- in my opinion -- is that players have the same advantages and disadvantages. One of those is being able to chose whether or not you use your own templates; but more importantly, with templates, you can choose to share a set of templates. You might both be off by millimeters, but at least that fact is shared.

I've been holding off on buying them hoping someday I might win a set. I do have an acrlic range ruler from 2014 store championship though.