• If the game goes to time and Player A has the Pup and Player B has any "real" ship, Player B will win, but may receive a Modified win if their ship is worth less than 12 points (currently impossible*).

Not technically true, although in practical terms it should always play out this way. If a Scum Player has an 87 point list, loses everything but the Pup, and destroys 88 points worth of opponent ships at time, then the Pup player gets a modified win 88-87.

Mind you, there is no reason to take an 87 point list except possibly for the "dual Phantom list", so I don't think this scenario will ever happen for Scum. If does then we have issues!

A ship that is destroyed is immediately removed. Inserting the Pup in between the destruction and removal goes against established similar immediate rulings (Luke +R5 vs Corran end phase shot = Luke still dead).

Card text overrides rules text.

Wrong button

A ship that is destroyed is immediately removed. Inserting the Pup in between the destruction and removal goes against established similar immediate rulings (Luke +R5 vs Corran end phase shot = Luke still dead).

Card text overrides rules text.

Thats true, but do you loose when all ships are destroyed, or when they are removed from the play area? Because the deployment happens after destruction, but before the ship is removed.

A ship that is destroyed is immediately removed. Inserting the Pup in between the destruction and removal goes against established similar immediate rulings (Luke +R5 vs Corran end phase shot = Luke still dead).

Card text overrides rules text.

Problem is the triggered items still happen.

Hounds Tooth is destroyed = Triggered game end and Nashta Pup deployment.

I've been away from this thread all day, but I just wanted to stop by to second everything that Major Juggler has said. His rules analysis is completely accurate, and if anything works otherwise, it will be due to an FAQ or erratum that changes the existing rules.

The only ambiguity that I see is MrkvChain's observation about the possibility of destroying Hound's Tooth and winning the game before Nahstah Pup has the opportunity to enter play.

Exactly this. This scenario is already covered under the rules.

1. If the Pup is deployed (it could be your last ship but does not have to be) and you kill all the opposing ships, then you get a full win with 5 victory points, and then you add up MoV. It is possible to win 100-100 with a full win worth 5 victory points if you have a 100 point squad and the Pup is the only ship remaining on the board.
2. If the Pup is deployed and the game goes to time, then you count up MoV on both sides as per the standard rules to determine the winner, with Hounds Tooth providing all of its points to your opponent.

Just for reference, I am pretty sure the tournament rules go the other way. At the end of the game you earn a Modified Win (3 points), then you check to see if you scored more than 12 MoV points higher than your opponent and if so, you earn a Full Win (5 pts). So if the Pup is your last ship, you would get a Modified Win with MoV close to 100-100 (given or take an initiative bid).

If the 666 flies off the map, would the pup still trigger? if forced by ions, or sh*tty piloting

This thing will have a whole page in the FAQ that's for sure.

Most likely, I'm sure the Natasha pup will have it very own FAQ section. Heck it might even be in the Hound's Tooth rule supplement explaining on how it is deployed and what to do if it is blocked by either the table edge or a swarm of fighters.

A ship that is destroyed is immediately removed. Inserting the Pup in between the destruction and removal goes against established similar immediate rulings (Luke +R5 vs Corran end phase shot = Luke still dead).

Card text overrides rules text.

Problem is the triggered items still happen.

Hounds Tooth is destroyed = Triggered game end and Nashta Pup deployment.

You are suggesting that the destruction of the Hound's Tooth immediately triggers "game end", but for that to be true you would not be able to count the MoV of the Hound's Tooth.

• You must remove the Hound's Tooth from the board after it is destroyed, and place it in the "score pile" to count its MoV.
• However, before removing the Hound's Tooth from the board you must first deploy the Pup.
• Therefore the Pup is deployed before the Hound's Tooth is removed from play and its MoV points counted.

If the Hound's Tooth is your last ship on the board and is destroyed, you still have to deploy the Pup - not doing so would be an illegal violation of existing procedures. There is already an exception to the immediate end of game triggering due to the Simultaneous Attack Rule, and logically the Pup will require a similar exception.

Exactly this. This scenario is already covered under the rules.

1. If the Pup is deployed (it could be your last ship but does not have to be) and you kill all the opposing ships, then you get a full win with 5 victory points, and then you add up MoV. It is possible to win 100-100 with a full win worth 5 victory points if you have a 100 point squad and the Pup is the only ship remaining on the board.
2. If the Pup is deployed and the game goes to time, then you count up MoV on both sides as per the standard rules to determine the winner, with Hounds Tooth providing all of its points to your opponent.

Just for reference, I am pretty sure the tournament rules go the other way. At the end of the game you earn a Modified Win (3 points), then you check to see if you scored more than 12 MoV points higher than your opponent and if so, you earn a Full Win (5 pts). So if the Pup is your last ship, you would get a Modified Win with MoV close to 100-100 (given or take an initiative bid).

Incorrect. If you are the last ship remaining then you get a "Match win" worth 5 points (colloquially called "full win"). Period, end of story -- rules are quoted below. (Edit: although you do still count points destroyed for MoV, obviously.) Alternatively, if the game goes to time, then you add up the MoV to determine the result: win, modified win, or draw.

Answers from this cross-post:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/180375-hound-tooth-preview/page-7#entry1661554

Relevant section here:

More Tournament Rules:

The player with the pup should be consider to still have one ship on the board. So for the cost of the pup card that would be how many points in ships he still has on the board.

The player with the pup should be consider to still have one ship on the board. So for the cost of the pup card that would be how many points in ships he still has on the board.

The Pup is worth 0 points as per the news article, but so long as you still have a ship on the board the game is not over.

MajorJuggler is just killing it it with the explanations. Great job, man! People need to learn to read.

(Don't worry others, I've been guilty of not reading several times myself! lol)

MajorJuggler is just killing it it with the explanations. Great job, man! People need to learn to read.

(Don't worry others, I've been guilty of not reading several times myself! lol)

To be fair most of this info was probably already available at the initial wave 7 announcement, but the recent news article triggered me looking at it closely, since we will end up discussing it on the next NOVA podcast. I wasn't 100% sure on how it should play out until I looked closer today.

MajorJuggler is just killing it it with the explanations. Great job, man! People need to learn to read.

I agree that given the tournament rules as currently written, MJ's analysis is spot on.

What if they adjust the rules with the release of the Hound's Tooth, though? We haven't seen the deploy text.

I could just as easily argue that the Pup is an element of the Hound's Tooth ship, and though you've destroyed the mother ship you haven't defeated the pilot and you shouldn't score all points until the Pup is also taken off of the board. Tournament rules or Pup-specific rules could reflect this on release. With this change you're not penalizing the player for taking the Pup; with the original rules interpretation you *can* penalize the player just by killing the Hound's Tooth last, since all points are scored when the Pup comes into play and the best you'd be able to do is turn a defeat into a tie assuming the game continues after deployment.

Anyway, we're all speculating until the final information is released.

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot. This entire mechanic requires several new rules to work. Rules that we simply don't know at the moment. Until FFG tells us how this works there really isn't any point in speculating about it (again).

Very true too much speculation at this point. Maybe the Pup will get it's own card that is worth less than a Z-95 (6pts)? Maybe it gets a pirate Z-95 card worth 12? Suddenly, you might have score-able points on the table.

Spawning a z-95 card worth 12 points would push mov over 100 points, so that's out.

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot. This entire mechanic requires several new rules to work. Rules that we simply don't know at the moment. Until FFG tells us how this works there really isn't any point in speculating about it (again).

Very true too much speculation at this point. Maybe the Pup will get it's own card that is worth less than a Z-95 (6pts)? Maybe it gets a pirate Z-95 card worth 12? Suddenly, you might have score-able points on the table.

again - all speculation but given this wording in the preview, one might assume that there won't be a dedicated Pup card -

"Moreover, your pilot retains his or her pilot skill and unique pilot ability while flying the Nashtah Pup"

If there are no pilot cards, that might also *partly* explain why they might not have included a Z-95 w/ the 666

MajorJuggler is just killing it it with the explanations. Great job, man! People need to learn to read.

(Don't worry others, I've been guilty of not reading several times myself! lol)

Apparently so.

Game end condition is on being destroyed and Nashtah pup is "After being destroyed..." Although close, the timing windows are not in the same spot. Game end occurs first and then ship deploy happens.

One of two things need to happen.

Either the Hounds Tooth title gets an errata to state "Immediately before being destroyed..."

Or the Tournament rules will need to be updated to stipulate that the Nashtah pup deploy from the Hounds Tooth title card is an exception to the all ships destroyed end game activation.

Relevant Tournament Section and Pup Image:

My emphasis in bold

Spawning a z-95 card worth 12 points would push mov over 100 points, so that's out.

Or it counts against the destroyed ship? Who knows.

Guys, again, the Pup card is shown in the preview:

With that dash, it means either of 2 things. It's worth 0 points or it's worth equal the the Hound's Tooth. I'm not really sure which, to be honest, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 0.

Exactly this. This scenario is already covered under the rules.

• If the Pup is deployed (it could be your last ship but does not have to be) and you kill all the opposing ships, then you get a full win with 5 victory points, and then you add up MoV. It is possible to win 100-100 with a full win worth 5 victory points if you have a 100 point squad and the Pup is the only ship remaining on the board.
• If the Pup is deployed and the game goes to time, then you count up MoV on both sides as per the standard rules to determine the winner, with Hounds Tooth providing all of its points to your opponent.

Just for reference, I am pretty sure the tournament rules go the other way. At the end of the game you earn a Modified Win (3 points), then you check to see if you scored more than 12 MoV points higher than your opponent and if so, you earn a Full Win (5 pts). So if the Pup is your last ship, you would get a Modified Win with MoV close to 100-100 (given or take an initiative bid).

If the 666 flies off the map, would the pup still trigger? if forced by ions, or sh*tty piloting

Until we see the deploy rules card, we don't know - but assumption?

Yes. but the Pup will also therefore be off the map, and hence will die instantly too.

If the 666 flies off the map, would the pup still trigger? if forced by ions, or sh*tty piloting

Until we see the deploy rules card, we don't know - but assumption?

Yes. but the Pup will also therefore be off the map, and hence will die instantly too.

Not necessarily. If the Z is launched like a bomb is dropped, there is a chance that the Pub is on the board if the Hooth's base overlapped borders.

Guys, again, the Pup card is shown in the preview:

With that dash, it means either of 2 things. It's worth 0 points or it's worth equal the the Hound's Tooth. I'm not really sure which, to be honest, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 0.

If they just had printed a 0 instead of the -, it would be clear.

But a '-' could be like 'N/A' or '*' or a '?'

I mean ... IF they meant that the Pub is worth 0 points, why isn't there just a printed 0 instead of '-' ?

No, if it had a price of 0, it would indicate that you could include the Pup in your Squad for 0 points. The only way to include the Pup is to take the Hound's Tooth.

Sergovan, you do not check for game end during the Combat Phase. That happens in the End Phase, at which point the Pup will long have been deployed.

Normally the End phase would happen as soon as one player has no ships let, because you would skip the remaining ships in the Combat phase as they have no valid targets, then go straight to the end phase and determine that you do not continue for another round.

With the Pup, you would deploy the Pup, remove the Hound's Tooth, then progress through the remaining ships in the Combat Phase, enter the End Phase and determine that there is still ships on both sides (unless the Pup was also destroyed) and continue.