I get your logic here, but this is a whole lot of speculating. AS IT STANDS, what you posted seems true. But, there is a hole in the logic. What happens if the Pup is your last ship? At this point are you only fighting to hurt your opponent's MOV? I doubt that will be the case. I'm holding off speculating as I'm sure the Pup will be worth some points. Maybe it will be just the six (cost of the card) or it might be the entire kit and caboodle, or maybe something in-between.

If the Pup's the last ship standing you still need to kill it to get full MoV, otherwise the game'll go to time and all your dead ships will count against your MoV. There are points in it, but they're yours, if that makes sense.

Welp - time to nerf it I guess.

For only 6 points, you add 4 health to your overall squad. That's great, but the more important thin is that killing the pup doesn't add to your opponents MOV.

I have been thinking about this a little bit more, and re-read the rules and yesterday's news release. Actually unless we specifically hear otherwise, you DO get the points for killing the YV-666.

1. In order for the Pup to be deployed, the YV-666 must first be destroyed.
2. In the tournament rules, points are scored when a ship is destroyed.
3. Therefore, when the YV-666 is destroyed, the points for it are immediately scored. This includes the 6 points for the title.

I get your logic here, but this is a whole lot of speculating. AS IT STANDS, what you posted seems true.

Which part do you feel is speculation? 1) and 2) are specifically stated by FFG, there is zero speculation. 3) logically must follow 1) and 2).

But, there is a hole in the logic. What happens if the Pup is your last ship? At this point are you only fighting to hurt your opponent's MOV? I doubt that will be the case. I'm holding off speculating as I'm sure the Pup will be worth some points. Maybe it will be just the six (cost of the card) or it might be the entire kit and caboodle, or maybe something in-between.

If the Pup's the last ship standing you still need to kill it to get full MoV, otherwise the game'll go to time and all your dead ships will count against your MoV. There are points in it, but they're yours, if that makes sense.

Exactly this. This scenario is already covered under the rules.

1. If the Pup is deployed (it could be your last ship but does not have to be) and you kill all the opposing ships, then you get a full win with 5 victory points, and then you add up MoV. It is possible to win 100-100 with a full win worth 5 victory points if you have a 100 point squad and the Pup is the only ship remaining on the board.
2. If the Pup is deployed and the game goes to time, then you count up MoV on both sides as per the standard rules to determine the winner, with Hounds Tooth providing all of its points to your opponent.

Welp - time to nerf it I guess.

there is no ship that personifies overpowered as much as the Z-95

yes sarcasm, I know

Yea, Im wondering if they will change the rules in a FAQ to getting MOV score when the *pilot* is destroyed, versus the ship?

Does the Pup constitute a legal ship on the board. If it doesn't count for MOV, couldn't your opponent claim victory if he has killed your 100 points? Why would he continue to fight it out if he has, by the rules, destroyed all the points in your squad and scored them.

If you kill all the points in your opponent's squad then the game is technically over. The Nastah pup creates a paradox where it doesn't count for points yet can force the game to continue after all points are scored. There is no benefit to kill the ship for the winning player, only to prevent him from losing his MOV points or the fight becoming a draw.

No one answered me about the Flying off the board... doesnt anyone know if it would trigger the pup?

Does the Pup constitute a legal ship on the board. If it doesn't count for MOV, couldn't your opponent claim victory if he has killed your 100 points? Why would he continue to fight it out if he has, by the rules, destroyed all the points in your squad and scored them.

If you kill all the points in your opponent's squad then the game is technically over. The Nastah pup creates a paradox where it doesn't count for points yet can force the game to continue after all points are scored. There is no benefit to kill the ship for the winning player, only to prevent him from losing his MOV points or the fight becoming a draw.

The rules don't say that you win if you destroy all of your opponent's points. You win if you destroy all of their ships.

No one answered me about the Flying off the board... doesnt anyone know if it would trigger the pup?

i believe the rules state that your ship is destroyed (specifically) if you fly off the board, so it should trigger the pup

now how the pup deploys, especially relative to the table edge the YV flew off of, I have no idea.

No one answered me about the Flying off the board... doesnt anyone know if it would trigger the pup?

We can't know until they publish the rules for deployment. If the rules have you deploy the Pup like you were doing a barrel-roll or deploying a mine, I'd say you probably won't be able to deploy the pup (but if you were able to might end up in situations where the Pup deploys but is immediately destroyed because it is off the board). If the rules have you deploy in your deployment zone (which doesn't seem to fit the fluff of the upgrade) then you should be able to deploy.

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot. This entire mechanic requires several new rules to work. Rules that we simply don't know at the moment. Until FFG tells us how this works there really isn't any point in speculating about it (again).

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot.

what else can we do !?

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot. This entire mechanic requires several new rules to work. Rules that we simply don't know at the moment. Until FFG tells us how this works there really isn't any point in speculating about it (again).

In terms of doing the actual deployment I agree but when it comes to scoring I believe that FFG has provided all of the information necessary to come to a valid conclusion.

So, if the Hounds Tooth is the last ship and you destroy it, the gams is over, right? The game ends when all opponent ships are destroyed, and the Pup comes into play after the Hounds Tooth is destroyed, so not at all in this case.

If that would be the case, then you might not want to destroy the Hounds Tooth before all other ships are destroyed.

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot.

what else can we do !?

Wait until FFG actually says what the scoring rules for the pup are?

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot. This entire mechanic requires several new rules to work. Rules that we simply don't know at the moment. Until FFG tells us how this works there really isn't any point in speculating about it (again).

In terms of doing the actual deployment I agree but when it comes to scoring I believe that FFG has provided all of the information necessary to come to a valid conclusion.

They haven't provided any information at all on how tournament scoring will work with the pup. Not one single bit of rules text on this topic, all we have is prose describing the flavor that they intend the mechanic to evoke.

From the preview article:

" When the Hound's Tooth is destroyed, your pilot can fly out of its wreckage in the Nashtah Pup , a unique Z-95 Headhunter that doesn't cost any squad points and can't deploy until the Hound's Tooth is destroyed."

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/6/15/any-methods-necessary/

So, if the Hounds Tooth is the last ship and you destroy it, the gams is over, right? The game ends when all opponent ships are destroyed, and the Pup comes into play after the Hounds Tooth is destroyed, so not at all in this case.

If that would be the case, then you might not want to destroy the Hounds Tooth before all other ships are destroyed.

This seems accurate according to current rules. However, the flavor is pretty off for an escape ship. Maybe there will be specific text in the FAQ that says you get to deploy the Pup before you lose.

You guys are all assuming an aweful lot. This entire mechanic requires several new rules to work. Rules that we simply don't know at the moment. Until FFG tells us how this works there really isn't any point in speculating about it (again).

In terms of doing the actual deployment I agree but when it comes to scoring I believe that FFG has provided all of the information necessary to come to a valid conclusion.

They haven't provided any information at all on how tournament scoring will work with the pup. Not one single bit of rules text on this topic, all we have is prose describing the flavor that they intend the mechanic to evoke.

I don't think we really need any new information. The current rules handle this situation just fine.

• The game continues as long as both players have a ship on the board. There is nothing to suggest that any of those ships have to have a point value, merely that they exist.
• If the game goes to time and Player A has the Pup and Player B has any "real" ship, Player B will win, but may receive a Modified win if their ship is worth less than 12 points (currently impossible*).
• If Player A controls only the Pup (all other ships destroyed) and destroys Player B's last remaining ship, Player A will win due to destroying all his enemy's ships. If you destroy all your opponent's ships, points no longer matter, you simply win.

* I think this may be why they made the Modified win score change to 12 - so that no single ship can fit inside the point margin.

• If the game goes to time and Player A has the Pup and Player B has any "real" ship, Player B will win, but may receive a Modified win if their ship is worth less than 12 points (currently impossible*).

That is only true if the player with the Pup spent all 100 points. If the Pup was part of a 97 point list there are 3 points that the opponent will not score unless the Pup is destroyed.

So, if the Hounds Tooth is the last ship and you destroy it, the gams is over, right? The game ends when all opponent ships are destroyed, and the Pup comes into play after the Hounds Tooth is destroyed, so not at all in this case.

If that would be the case, then you might not want to destroy the Hounds Tooth before all other ships are destroyed.

This seems accurate according to current rules. However, the flavor is pretty off for an escape ship. Maybe there will be specific text in the FAQ that says you get to deploy the Pup before you lose.

The Pup is deployed before the Tooth is removed.

Its so refreshing to don't talk about ordnance fixes.

Its so refreshing to don't talk about ordnance fixes.

I wonder what upgrades maybe ordinances the pup will carry upon the 666's death....

A ship that is destroyed is immediately removed. Inserting the Pup in between the destruction and removal goes against established similar immediate rulings (Luke +R5 vs Corran end phase shot = Luke still dead).

From the preview article:

" When the Hound's Tooth is destroyed, your pilot can fly out of its wreckage in the Nashtah Pup , a unique Z-95 Headhunter that doesn't cost any squad points and can't deploy until the Hound's Tooth is destroyed."

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/6/15/any-methods-necessary/

Makes a hard choice for your opponent. Focus on the other ships worth actual points and let this freely chip away at you, or kill this wasting shots that could be taken at points on the board.