Bossk question

By mazz0, in X-Wing

The R7-T1 ruling wouldn't be different if "must" were in there: you'd still Boost, even if you were incapable of gaining the mandatory TL.

Actually, you'd still have to meet the first condition to be within R1-2 and in the arc of the opposing ship to boost. The TL is not mandatory, if you decide against using it you can still boost though.

I forgot ... the use and parsing of the subjunctive tense is a dying art.

The important question here is, is this a new form of templating they wanted to introduce. Previously cards that are restricted by stress have a sentence at the end to the effect of, "you may not use this card/ability if you are stressed". If not for new templating, I would have expected a similar sentence if this were the case.

Using "must" in this case makes it a mandatory effect, I still don't read it as a conditional, and it isn't really worded as a cost either. The strange thing is "if you have no stress, gain a stress" is not really any different from "if you have no stress, you must gain a stress" except when cards like Captain Yorr are factored in. But the Yorr example also fails miserably, if it is an effect, since you have a must versus Yorr effect, but the rest of the card doesn't hinge on the mandatory gaining of stress since it is still an effect and not a cost. As a cost (that needs to be paid) it would prevent the rest of the card from activating, as a mandatory effect nothing really cares.

I am hopeful that they caught the odd wording in preproduction and this is an early version, it certainly wouldn't be the first time something had changed.

...but my detective skills led me to a post by KineticOperator who suggested that the stress needed to be gained in order for the F/TL to happen. As Aaron has been a play tester previously I am respectful of his opinion. I do not know whether he in fact play tested this expansion but there is a good probability that he did (not that he could tell us either way) and thus I would assume that play testers would be able to play the cards as intended by seeking clarification from the designers.

I'm still up in the air about how it should work. I think the cost comparison to FCS is apt, so it is not that it is under costed per se, but I feel we would be less likely to be having this discussion if it cost more for what is a rather potent ability.

So does this mean I can take expert handling on bossk, barrel roll, take a stress and remove an enemy TL, then attack and miss, not take an additional stress and then get a focus token and a TL?

So does this mean I can take expert handling on bossk, barrel roll, take a stress and remove an enemy TL, then attack and miss, not take an additional stress and then get a focus token and a TL?

I think as it stands the answer is potentially. I don't honestly think this is solved short of an FAQ...

...However, unless you have a gunner why would you ever want to miss? Doing all of things does not get you any closer to your win condition (I.e. Doing damage). This is as bad as the people who wanted to purposely miss with their Flechette Torpedoes to keep them with Munitions Failsafe. It is just a bad play to go out of your way to expect or want to deal no damage.

Sorry to rain on everyone's R7-T1 parade, buuuuuut...

uJdR3k2.png

By R7-T1's "precedent", you can elect to not cancel your results and then add two hits.

FFG has a way they want Bossk to work, and they'll FAQ it to work that way. They will not be overidden by rules technicalities and precedents, they'll just change the rules as they've done in the past.

The question is which ruling is more likely given the cost of the card?

My hope (and preference) is that Bossk (crew) activates even if the pilot is stressed. Otherwise, it would feel as though rebel captive would become even more of an auto-include. That's just my 2 cents though.

Another Bossk pilot question:

If a Bossk crit hits a shield - will this crit absorbed by the shield before you can convert it to 2 hits?

Another Bossk pilot question:

If a Bossk crit hits a shield - will this crit absorbed by the shield before you can convert it to 2 hits?

No, the card says "before dealing damage." Also, the article talks about how awesome Bossk is at clearing shields.

So we have a consensus then?

We need an FAQ.

Somebody take that dress off Bossk... nobody cares what color it is... he just doesn't look good in a dress!

We need an FAQ.

Personally I'd just be happy with a clarification.

So does this mean I can take expert handling on bossk, barrel roll, take a stress and remove an enemy TL, then attack and miss, not take an additional stress and then get a focus token and a TL?

I think as it stands the answer is potentially. I don't honestly think this is solved short of an FAQ...

...However, unless you have a gunner why would you ever want to miss? Doing all of things does not get you any closer to your win condition (I.e. Doing damage). This is as bad as the people who wanted to purposely miss with their Flechette Torpedoes to keep them with Munitions Failsafe. It is just a bad play to go out of your way to expect or want to deal no damage.

Why? Because you get multiple actions for only a single stress. By trying to miss your first shot your getting a TL and focus for free if you barrel rolled first using expert handling, so your essentially getting 3 actions plus a removal of a TL in you if you had one all for a single stress. Otherwise if you don't miss our shot then bossk won't trigger. Plus now you have the potential of rerolling without needing to use your TL. For instance, first action you choose expert handling. Barrel roll, take stress, remove TL. You attack with 3 dice and get blank, blank, hit. Defender evades, so gunner and bossk trigger, now you get a TL, focus and still at only 1stress. You attack with 3 dice again, hit, eyeball, crit. Spend your focus and now you've got 2 hits and crit and a TL to use next round if you want.

you can't barrel-roll using extra handling and use bossk crew on a yv-666 unless you want to create a time paradox

the action efficiency generated by bossk is only slightly greater than cards like PTL or FCS and is far more situational, so I doubt it'd break the game if it triggered while stressed

might be why the other YVs were tragically released without epts :(

Edited by ficklegreendice

you can't barrel-roll using extra handling and use bossk crew on a yv-666 unless you want to create a time paradox

the action efficiency generated by bossk is only slightly greater than cards like PTL or FCS and is far more situational, so I doubt it'd break the game if it triggered while stressed

might be why the other YVs were tragically released without epts :(

I actually didn't catch that the other pilots didn't have epts I kind of assumed at least one of them would besides bossk. Oh well there goes that plan haha.

To copy and paste my interpretation of Bossk from the other thread (since this thread's specifically about him):

I think it makes more sense to compare crew Bossk to Fire Control System than to Accuracy Corrector. Since Bossk will usually be paired with a gunner, he functions in much the same way as your standard Buzzsaw approach.

Why isn't he more expensive than FCS? Well, while he also provides a focus, he does have some much more significant limitations compared to it:

-The attack must miss in order for Bossk to trigger. FCS can still give you a target lock if you hit on all your dice.

-You must be stressed after missing, whether you gain a target lock and focus or not. If you're already stressed, then that's not a disadvantage to Bossk, but you're still limited to greens next round unless you want to sacrifice your actions and rely on missing for Bossk to trigger.

Add to that, FCS doesn't stress you, allowing a buzzsaw Phantom to immediately re-cloak.

-Bossk is unique, Fire Control System is not

-There's only one ship in the game currently that can even use Bossk and a Gunner, so he's not quite as versatile.

All in all, I think with all that, and the separate sentences in his wording, it makes sense for crew Bossk to be usable while you already have a stress token. He's no more overpowered than buzzsaw whisper, with similar pricing.

Plus, Accuracy Corrector is a separate thing entirely. AC lets you cancel your dice and add two [hit] results. If you have an autoblaster cannon and AC, that's an obvious advantage over rerolling and potentially getting crits. You don't have to miss to trigger AC, since it happens in the modify dice step. If you roll one hit against, say, a Chiraneau at range two, he can't avoid it unless he has Ysanne. If you change that two two hits, well, he's getting a damage (or potentially he's taken double your initial damage).

Then add to that, AC will cost 0 points on a Tie Advanced sometime int he near future, and will probably be an auto-include on the generics for me.

So, that's my take on the Bossk crew, but I guess we'll have to wait for clarity. I could be dead wrong.

I think we've probably discussed this enough, shall we talk about breakfast now?

I think we've probably discussed this enough, shall we talk about breakfast now?

Dude, breaking my fast is so awesome!

And it shall be dubbed, the Bossksaw!

No? ****.

you can't barrel-roll using extra handling and use bossk crew on a yv-666 unless you want to create a time paradox

the action efficiency generated by bossk is only slightly greater than cards like PTL or FCS and is far more situational, so I doubt it'd break the game if it triggered while stressed

might be why the other YVs were tragically released without epts :(

I actually didn't catch that the other pilots didn't have epts I kind of assumed at least one of them would besides bossk. Oh well there goes that plan haha.

Do we know for sure about the PS6 doesn't have an EPT?

And it shall be dubbed, the Bossksaw!

No? ****.

buzzbossk

buzz bosskyear!

you can't barrel-roll using extra handling and use bossk crew on a yv-666 unless you want to create a time paradox

the action efficiency generated by bossk is only slightly greater than cards like PTL or FCS and is far more situational, so I doubt it'd break the game if it triggered while stressed

might be why the other YVs were tragically released without epts :(

I actually didn't catch that the other pilots didn't have epts I kind of assumed at least one of them would besides bossk. Oh well there goes that plan haha.

Do we know for sure about the PS6 doesn't have an EPT?

His upgrade bar is partially visible in the spread image. EPTs are always listed first, and upgrade bars have never changed from the initial announcement to release.

As I posted in the other thread:

Guys, the wording follows the same precedence as R7-T1:

bossk-crew.pngR7-T1_1.png

And the FAQ for R7-T1 says:

If a ship equipped with R7-T1 is at Range 1–2 and inside the firing arc of an enemy ship, the following sequence occurs: the ship equipped with R7-T1 may acquire a target lock on the enemy ship. Then, the ship equipped with R7-T1 may perform a free boost action, even if it did not acquire a target lock on the enemy ship.

So, in this case with Bossk, if you do not have a stress token, you must take a stress token. Then, you must take a focus and TL the defender.

Exactly this. Think of it this way:

[Trigger Condition]

Execute A

Execute B

"Execute A" and "Execute B" are independent. Both fire off of the trigger condition. "Execute A" has an additional nested if statement within it, but that does not affect "Execute B"

In this case:

[Trigger Condition] = "After you perform an attack that does not hit"

Execute A = "if you are not stressed you must receive one stress token"

Execute B = "assign 1 focus token to your ship and acquire a target lock on the defender"

If they had intended to only trigger the card if you were not previously stressed, then they simply would have worded the card as:

"After you perform an attack that does not hit and you are not stressed, you must receive one stress token, assign 1 focus token to your ship, and acquire a target lock on the defender"

(emphasis mine) It's not worded this way, so it always triggers after you perform an attack that misses, regardless if you previously had stress or not.

Well I'm pretty sure if you see Bossk (crew) you are going to see Gunner pared with him as it works sort of like a fire-control system that adds a focus token for a stress token.

Now the question is where will you see him. There are not a lot of multiple crew slotted ships in the S&V roster (the YV-666 is the only one). So if Bossk (crew) is on the table then it is certain that the YV-666 will be on the table and it will not be Bossk(pilot).

However if that is your build I think you would be better off with Buzzdroids (aka bro-bots)

And it shall be dubbed, the Bossksaw!

No? ****.

Perfection. :D

Marinleaver: I'm not so sure - Brobots is a very specific setup. I think it's closer to say that any build flying a YV-666 is going to be extremely tempted to fly Bossk as part of it - either as the pilot (because that crit-to-hits effect is fantastic) or as the crew (where bossksaw is going to take a lot of doing to outperform!). What you pair such a ship with is an interesting question - either you end up running a variant of the IGb Boba lists, with either Boba or IG staying alongside, or you fly it with a couple other ships alongside - warthogs come to mind if they'll ever fix bloody MoV... ;)

It seems like a great ship to pair with an ace. Pity they bollocksed up the PS on the StarViper, because a pre-VI PS 6-7 Guri would've paired well... and, uh, Scycks don't count. ;) (Even with the pricing errors, after all the effort they put into Interceptors and A-wings, you'd think they'd still have thought to give Laetin an EPT... grump grump)