I think people are misunderstanding me: When I say don't JUST say "attack it with dice", is because that doesn't help anyone. We are already trying to do that. Its public knowledge.

To be fair, I and likely most others were responding to the OP and not you.

It's hard to give specific strategies because this game is incredibly situational. Not to mention, we don't even know what we are flying in those situations.

For me personally, I've beaten fat turrets without blocking simply because I don't run blockers. I think blocking is less valuable against YT-1300's, but is extremely potent against Super Dash with PTL. Not only because Dash's post-PTL movement is more predictable, but because (1) he relies on that BR/boost much more and (2) even if you miss the block, being R1 of Dash isn't punishing where R1 of a YT-1300 is.

For asteroid deployments, I find corner asteroids work well. It lends itself towards forcing the turret along the edges.

The issue against Fat PWT is that while been able to beat them you must also be able to beat non-Fat PWT lists to make to the top cut of a major tournament and right now there's nothing more versatile than a Fat PWT list to accomplish both this things in our MoV environment

BBBBZ, Tie Swarms and BTL Ys are probably the best non PWT solution, but I feel they are more prone to suffer from any "out of meta" swiss rounds shenanigans than the staples Fatties and, in the case of TIE swarms, you rely too much on the green dice compared to "0 green dice 16hp with boost" decimators, "at least 1 evade per turn and 15 hp with boost without worring to make actions to improve offense" Solos.

There aren't particular tactics that allows us to counter play PWT, rather than the generic and good against any kind of ship "focus your fire on the biggest threat" and "block their movement with your wounded ship so they can't finish it". It's more like we have to find, if there's, a non PWT list which retain the same reliability of a PWT one in the tournament environment (thus capable of making out of swiss rounds where you can face anything while still having a good MoV to win ties) AND is as less luck dependant as possible.

Soontir Fel (27)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Turr Phennir (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Tetran Cowall (24)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This tore apart a 26 hitpoint turret list for me very effectively.

The thing is that while being good against turret ships, triple autoceptors aren't actually bulletproof, especially against predator-gunner Solo/Chireneu: they could easely score 3 hits, let you spend a token and then score other 3 that you have to defend tokenless.

Also PTL Tetran is either a waste of point or a waste of his ability since you need to start a round stressless to do a koyo.

I'm neither particulary fond of PTL Turr, but at least he works. With abundance of Soontirs as Chireneau's wingmen I'd put VI on Turr and throw in a Jax who also has the added bonus of an higher initiative than Dash.

While being way too much luck dependant, a good tripleceptor list might be good way to deal to PWT fatties, it also suffers DeciVader way too much for my taste and also struggle a bit with MoV

Is it a viable stratagy to kil the PWT with a swarm, then stall for time to avoid having to kill corran/soonts?

No, it's not a viable strategy to ignore either because they'll rip you apart if you ignore them. And nothing besides Dash, phantoms, and Tycho can actually run from Soontir. You're also not likely going to be able to run from Corran.

Stalling is generally bad with a swarm. It's easy to lose the odd ship here and there, which means you're bleeding victory points and he isn't. You need to kill your opponent dead, or at least try.

A lot of it depends on the specific turret and support ship, and your own.

Range 3 is ideal for some ships, but I think you probably want to aim for medium range - range 2.

As a rule, a fat turret will have a higher pilot skill than a swarm, and even if it's dial is individually worse, the constraints of flying in formation make you less wieldy.

Don't go for range 1. It's too easy for a sweeping boost or barrel roll to leave a significant proportion of your squad with no shot; you don't need to loose out on too many shots to be left at a massive disadvantage - all your squad firing at range two is much better than half of it firing at range 1 - not least because the turret may well kill the range 1 shooters before they fire.

Autothruster Alphas is a mob I want to try at some point. Four plus Howlrunner sounds nice, but I suspect five leaves you with less of an exploitable linchpin.

Also: Carnor Jax. If you're making an autothruster anti-turret mob, consider this guy, because rebel pancakes tend to be very dependent on tokens for defence.

I've had a huge amount of success with a combination of Prockets and Corran. If it's PS9+, I prefer to block it with a Prototype so it can't run away. Preferably both Tycho (Procket platform) and Corran previously acquired TLs, which is simple to do. Then you zoom in on the R1 engagement, F+E on Tycho, E with Corran. This is a requirement most turns in order to styme the hurt the 4 dice can do. If you feel dangerous, feel free to F with Corran as well.

Now you're throwing 13 dice in one turn, 8 with a single modifier, 5 with dual modifiers. Your expected <boom> count is 10.375. Now, if it's against a Decimator, that's just straight up damage. Against a YT-2400 (which isn't that large of a threat in all honesty), you're looking at 2.26 + 3.94 + 2.26 = 8.46 damage. And against a YT-1300, 1.25 + 4.31 + 2.25 = 7.81 damage. So, if you're strategic about when you do this (read, after you've done 2-3 damage), you can easily wipe out the target in one large assault. The YT-2400 falls apart really easily, as does the Decimator. The YT-1300 (especially with double droids) is the only one at all that presents an-ongoing challenge. But if you got 3 damage prior to the burst round, it's left with only 2 hull.

Furthermore, in my experience it's not uncommon for it to be sporting several crits - all of which can be devastating. Not only is there the obvious Direct Hit card, but all of the pilot crits are nasty, and most of the ship crits are too (exceptions being muntions failure and thrust control fire).

In short, a single burst attack round can often cripple any large ship (this is also how I deal with Aggressors), drastically turning the tide of battle. If you are successful in killing it that round, then Corran can run away and regen any shields that were lost, or your opponent can be upset that he failed to kill Tycho prior to him getting his rockets off (and now feels like he wasted those shots on Tycho).

Thanks Khyros, nice write up! Would you be willing to share your list?

First off, I’d like to say that it’s great to see a thread about how to beat Fat Turrets instead of just wanting to nerf them or complain about them. I hate seeing them, but they can be beat. Maybe if we can develop ways to beat them we will stop seeing them.

How does a Fat Turret win? It baits you into committing your ships and then it boosts out of your firing arcs. Then, you chase the big ship because you need the points and it fires at you while you can’t fire at it. The support ships or other fat turret will try to follow you and blast you while this happens. Knowing this is their goal is the first step in avoiding it. Don’t fall into their traps.

The first is on a general level. If you would normally bank to get a shot on where a ship would be, make it a sharp turn instead for a Fat Turret. Just expect them to move regular, but then boost out of the way. So, guess where they are going to go and make it a hard turn in that direction instead. Not always possible and very situational, but it’s a basic concept to start with.

Figure out where they want to go. They are going to be thinking a few turns ahead. They will expect to turn and then boost one direction out of your firing arc. Which way will they go? Which way doesn’t trap them in a corner? Which one will let them have more room to run away from you? Expect that direction. Look at where the asteroids are set up and look for their escape lanes. This one is very important as you need to use obstacles in your favor.

Asteroids and Debris Fields are very important. You need to use your placement. How you want to set it up depends on your list and playing style. I have been flying Xizor and 5 Z-95’s and I love placing my asteroids on my side in the middle. This is because I will pick one side of the table and go up it. They protect my flank from those that want to come in at me. Often times, I will create pathways for big ships to come through at me. If I expect that is how they will come through, then it makes it easier to deal with. Here’s an example:

Other people like to cluster them in the middle so that the ships have a harder time zipping in from the flanks. That’s also a good strategy. I’ve also stacked as many asteroids on one side of the board as possible to just make it a no-go area. Making the table smaller is a good way to reduce their mobility. You might also want to create pathways to make them more predictable. You know what they want to do, so setting it up so that you know how they are going to move can be a boon. There are a number of things you can do and it all depends on what list you want and what strategy you want to take to face them.

Fat Turrets will want to scatter asteroids in the middle, but not too close together. They want them spread out to be annoying to formations. A Fat Turret will try to stick to the edges of the board and try to draw you into the middle and break up your formation of ships. That’s when they will zip up and catch one just in range and blast it to pieces. They want to break you up and take you out piecemeal. DON’T GO THROUGH THE ASTEROIDS AT THEM. I’ve made the time tight at games by sticking in formation and avoiding the rocks to not fall for that trap, but it’s been worth it. Better to keep your guys together and slow roll them than to jump at them. Remember that they will run out of table space at some point and will have to turn. Where will they turn? Plan on being there at the right time. Try to trap them there. Try to set up bumps and such to stop them from boosting.

The thing about understanding Fat Turrets and where they will go will make them much easier to defeat. For one, you can just shoot them as you know where they are going to be. If you have cheap blockers in your list, it’s even better. I slow rolled a YT-1300 and YT-2400 along the table edge. They set up to joust me, but did the 1 hard turn to slow roll along his table edge. I slow rolled through a big spot in the asteroids and didn’t lose my formation until they were out of table edge. The Falcon turned in just a bit and took a shot at one of my ships. At this point, I knew what he wanted to do. He was going to turn to his left (my right) and boost out of there. So….I sent one Z-95 to the spot that I thought he was going to be. It was a hard turn and he wasn’t even facing anything, but if I guess right, it would be worth it. The Falcon did try to turn there and bumped. Instead of boosting out of arc, he ended up in R1 of a lot of Z-95’s with no actions.

If you can, try to split up your opponent’s ships. If it’s double fat turret or fat turret and support ships, just try to split them up. Knowing how the big ship is going to go is going to help, but if ever there is a point where they split, then you go for the fat turret hard. There was a game this past weekend against a Dash w/ 2 Ion Turret Y-wings. I went up my left flank and they went down my right. I banked in towards them as I expected Dash to act like that Decimator did in that first picture. Instead, the YT went straight and the Y-wings K-turned. I think he didn’t want everything to get caught in the corner and he expected me to slow roll. At this point, I moved as hard and fast against Dash. He was headed towards a corner and his support was going the other way. I had some come in behind him and then I tried to send others along my right to cut him off and make sure he can’t escape.

Everyone’s list is different and not everyone can use the same strategies. Also, some people might prefer different ones, but the idea with obstacles is to predict where your opponent is going to go. If you get that, then you beat the high mobility of their ships and turrets. That’s the biggest strength of their list.

High damage output is another way to take a big ship down fast. This is where there is variance in the ships. YT-2400 has 2 green dice, which can survive swarms better than others. M. Falcon with C-3PO has that free evade every turn. Decimator doesn’t have any evade dice, but has a lot of hull. It’s hard to really suggest one thing that will always work, but there are things you can do. Massed fire from a swarm is one. Ships with lots of red dice are another. Even dropping bombs can be good. One time, with a 4 Tie Bomber list, I was able to drop 4 Seismic Charges right where Leebo was going. I dropped and did a 5 K-turn. You only see 3 bombs in this picture as Leebo is actually on one of them. After the bombs, I had my TL’s and was able to unload my ordnance and kill him in one turn.

Ordnance is a good way to stop fat turrets. You can do a lot of damage in one shot, but it can be a challenge to pull off. It’s not impossible and there are ways you can improve your chances of doing damage. Jonus with a Tie Bomber works. Free Focus actions work. Free actions work. Homing Missiles work. If you fire a Concussion Missile with a Focus and your TL, there is a 94% chance you will get at least 3 hits.

One big thing to remember with fat turrets is that they are usually really good at defending against one attack. These days, most lists have only a few ships. If you can defend against one of those attacks, you evade maybe half of their damage. Just know that your highest PS pilot will probably be the one evaded. That’s also usually your best attack, too. So, make sure your other attacks can cause damage. A swarm doesn’t need to have more than 2 red dice to fire, but if you can get in R1, it improves the damage output. If you can have a lower PS pilot have your HLC or ordnance, you stand a greater chance of it doing damage. If you get shots in, try to get as many shots in on the same turn. It doesn’t matter too much if spend an attack to clear away the defense, but have no other shots.

The fewer ships you have, the happier fat turrets are. If you have only 2-3 ships, then you will have less attack dice to get through their defenses….unless you have Gunner or such. It’s harder to block with only a few ships and even if you block, that is one ship that can’t attack. It’s easier for them to concentrate fire and kill one of a few ships than to slowly smash through a swarm.

Control is another way to handle fat turrets. If you have an Ion Missile, it will knock out a big based ship for one turn. You KNOW where it will be. Make sure you are there with as many ships in R1 as possible. Hitting a ship like that near the board edge goes without saying, but also look at other things on the board. If you Ionize them for a turn, where will they go next turn? Where will you be? Can you maybe trap them in a corner? Or in the middle of an asteroid field? Or maybe you can just set up a joust in the middle as you know where they will be. It’s well worth it to get as many shots on someone at close range to kill the big ships fast as it is to send it off the board in one cool move.

Stress is another form of control. If you can prevent actions, you can seriously hamper the fat turret. Their goal is to boost out of your firing arc and fire at you. Stop that boost and you stop half their strategy. Stop his defensive actions for that turn and all your hits will have punch to them. Stress him out and make him predictable as to where he is going to go. Even a one shot stress at the right turn is enough to prevent him from escaping. No more K-turn and only able to boost with a green move.

Once you punch a fat turret in the face, it panics. It wants to get out of there as fast as possible. It will want to probably go 3-4 and then boost out of the way. A 3 bank is a likely move, as its around obstacles. A curved boost can also get them further away. There is also the hard turn and boost to get around an asteroids. They will take a path to escape and immediately get out of firing arc. There are two things you can do. One is to try to block that escape or just hunt them down and kill them. How badly are they hurt? How hard is it for you to get them the very next turn? Those things matter. Another option is to change targets. Your opponent will bring in the support at this stage. Maybe you were able to split them up and the other is just rushing in as the hurt one is running. He’s expecting you to go after the hurt one. Maybe you suddenly turn and face the new threat? If you catch them off guard and guess where they are going to be, it might be that the other ship is soon just as hurt as the first one! The hurt ship will usually take a few turns to turn around and get back into the fight. It gives you a few turns to fight only a portion of his list with whatever you have left at that point. Kick its teeth in with the most brutal methods you have. Same tricks work. Block them with a blocker that not only stops his actions, but puts him in a spot where you know he is going to be. That can give you a lot of R1 shots where you are prepared.

If you face Corran Horn w/ any fat turret….kill Corn Hole first. Trap him and go after him. Double stress him if you can or just pour as much fire on him as possible. 3 green dice is nice, but fickle.

If you face a Phantom….kill that first. The 4 red dice are no joke and you should try to trap it and kill it ASAP or it will eat your list for lunch while you chase the Decimator.

Hopefully this will help some people out there. Fat Turrets are boring to play against because they all fly the same. Oh, people will say that the specific cards will matter. Sure, an HLC Dash vs. a Mangler dash will matter b/c you can get within R1 of the HLC Dash donut hole. What will the fat turret do, though? It will try to “kite” you. It’s where it leads you by the nose on a merry chase around the board and you can’t get many shots off on it. While that happens, it fires away at you and kills you one at a time. So, there are various upgrades to pay attention to, but these fat turrets only have one strategy.

Good luck and may the Force be with you in defeating fat turrets! Maybe if everyone gets better at killing them, they will go away.

To me it seems that the real strength of the fat turrets is their staying power. The longer the match goes the more likely they are to win either by eliminating opponents or on points. So for me the strategy is straightforward: a huge alpha strike. Set up asteroids strung as far across the board as possible making as much of an obvious path for the fatty as you can and hit it with everything first turn you're in range. Hit the turret with everything! This will very likely need to include ordinance. Make them pay for such a heavy investment in a single ship and won't allow them to take most of your points as you do it. If the turret isn't eliminated by the second turn of shooting then your Alpha strike was too weak. Ignore all incoming fire and focus on the mass and immediate destruction of the turret then use the remaining ships to eliminate the leftovers. Happy list building and good luck hunting.

staying power isn't entirely unique to the fat PWTs but I think the alpha strike has merit

the most important thing when dealing with ships that can't 1v1 a PWT's guaranteed defenses is concentrating fire Both C3po and the evade token are once per round affairs, meaning they'll neuter one attack and then proceed to have no more use against following dice. They of course will be doing everything they can to not let you do that.

In my opinion, it's not just staying power. It's their ability to dodge arcs. Big based ships can move quite far on the table and the ability to boost gives them extra movement power. The dials on the YT's, at least, are just insane. They can do just about any move...and then do an engine boost.

In my opinion, it's not just staying power. It's their ability to dodge arcs. Big based ships can move quite far on the table and the ability to boost gives them extra movement power. The dials on the YT's, at least, are just insane. They can do just about any move...and then do an engine boost.

not with obstructions they can't

problem is obstructions work both ways when flying a chunky, turret-hunting type list ala BBBBZ. Mileage may vary

OFC Dash doesn't give two *****, but Dash will be limited by his reliance on PTL and KK which will force a decision. Either the Dash player pushes (and pushes in advance to generate the free focus) and is more predictable for it, or the Dash player does not push (losing vital action efficiency) and telegraphs an open dial. The range 1 HLC bubble also makes his maneuverability far more limited than his ability (which does not account for space peanuts i.t.o being able to attack) and large-base roll/boost would suggest

Actually, I find that sometimes you can predict where Dash will go based on asteroids. Dash players tend to prefer to stick on Debris Fields to ensure they don't bump. So, you can expect them to stick around the obstacles. Sometimes.

EDIT: In other words, sometimes, when you have a hammer, you start looking for nails.

Warning to people in Kansas. Not all turrets kite you. Some of them joust you and Vader you into the ground and don't care if Chirp dies.

I actually don't understand Vader mon Cheri. Is soontir really that scary? Is it tech against aggressors?

I don't fly decis so I don't understand the rationale, but it seems rebel captive would be the more effective upgrade on a ship that expensive and that integral to a list (helping the opponent kill it seems counter-productive)

A decivader can do 8 potential crits you can't avoid, on top of that it's got a TL'd 360 turret for 43 points that's capable of killing a 49 point bot, and you've still got nearly 60 points to play around with.

So you either go for the expendable deci leaving fel and friend alive or you go for named fighters leaving the deci for end game where you'll not have the firepower to win before Vader crits you into oblivion.

I understand the decivader (****'s scary, son!); I don't understand Vader on fat Chiraneau specifically

Oh that was Vader on Cheri? I just thought you were hitting on me

oh monsieur, even in le galax-ee far far away français is ze language of lovee~

they do not call heem ze rear admiral for nothing

Vader is a good passenger on a deci to use as insurance against slippery targets. I flew a game last week where I was able to finish off two ships that hung on by 1 hp each. So using it tactically is good.

I agree loading him onto an expensive ship with a ton of upgrades seems counter intuitive.

I actually don't understand Vader mon Cheri. Is soontir really that scary? Is it tech against aggressors?

I don't fly decis so I don't understand the rationale, but it seems rebel captive would be the more effective upgrade on a ship that expensive and that integral to a list (helping the opponent kill it seems counter-productive)

It depends on what Chirp is there to do. In this case he was there to torpedo any aces or a couple of generics so that Whisper could clean up the remainder.

This is part of the reason why I keep telling people that it is just flat out wrong to think you can fly the same way against different turret lists(even if they are the same ships) and expect to always have similar results.

Focus ion fire has worked for me. It might not be THE answer, but it is MY answer. Even if you can't drag them off map you control and limit where they will be next turn to hammer them again.

I've had really solid results running them with 3 autothruster prototypes. They can occupy enough space and move so quickly that it is extremely hard for the deci to find a way out. Deci/Fel you can reliably beat.

Soontir Fel (27)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Turr Phennir (25)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Tetran Cowall (24)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This tore apart a 26 hitpoint turret list for me very effectively.

Vader however is still a broken card on turrets and the only hope against him is focused fire until they limit him to within arc fire like the doom shuttle.

For vader on a Decimator to solely kill all of your interceptors he would have to take 18 damage to himself if no direct hits were drawn. I wouldn't say its broken, it is definitely a 100% anti fel hard counter though and I love nothing more than being ps 10 and boosting in range of fel and missing my first shot vadering him then activate gunner and miss again and vader and draw a direct hit. One of the most satisfying moments ever.

My regionals list was a pair of HLC TIE Defenders (named guys), and Rexler Brath had an Ion Pulse Missile. I would deploy my rocks in a lose formation in the middle of the board, and I'd tend to attack out of the rocks. With fairly fast HLCs (like the ones on Defenders) I like to be towards the middle of the board and behind the turrets. Between rocks, the table edge, the threat of the Ion Pulse Missile, and good position, it makes it really easy to keep the guns on target. Unlike massed ships relying on primaries, HLC Defenders are tough to kite. A single one can still punch some damage through most defenses, and two will only take a few turns to drop any ship in the game.

I'll note that I think heychadwick's advice was really good, and it was almost exactly the opposite of what I did when I faced fatties. This is because he was flying a bunch of 2-dice guys (large footprint, range matters a lot), and I had a pair of HLC Defenders (small footprint, range doesn't matter). This illustrates how much strategy matters when you're planning to defeat something.

If it wasn't for all the evades they can get (mainly han), they really aren't THAT hard to kill.

If you face Corran Horn w/ any fat turret….kill Corn Hole first. Trap him and go after him. Double stress him if you can or just pour as much fire on him as possible. 3 green dice is nice, but fickle.

If you face a Phantom….kill that first. The 4 red dice are no joke and you should try to trap it and kill it ASAP or it will eat your list for lunch while you chase the Decimator.

Kill the escorts first versus the turret is always going to be a debate, but yeah - when you've got something like corran, try to kill him dead - anything with regenerating health needs to stay down, and if he's packing R2-D2, he's not got a generic R2 astromech - which means he's probably nailed to the green manouvres, so he's actually more predictable than the pancake.

If it's a pack of TIE bombers or Z-95s - something with lots of toughness for its cost - then don't try and fight them first.