If I'm reading the Regionals results correctly, 28 winners included a turret, 23 didn't.

Does this really justify a fix, errata, nerf?

I'm still seeing Phantoms winning, do they require another nerf?

I think people continue looking for problems where there are none.

I'd like to play my Millenium Falcon in casual games/tourneys please. That's the reason I got into this game. To play with my favorite tiny little ships. Don't spoil it for me!

At our regionals I didn't play against a single big turret. There wasn't even a Decimator in the entire place. I think u play what u like. I love e wings and a wings, so I play them. They are fun for me, and live zipping around. Will they win world's - nope. Not my lists. But fun? Oh yeah!

As far as I have understood, the problem is not turrets, but the time limit and Modified Victory rule heavily benefiting "point fortresses".

You are a brave man to start this thread on a topic that means many different things to many different people.

Any closest to the pin bets on how many pages this goes? I say at least 11.

I'm grabbing some popcorn.

As far as I have understood, the problem is not turrets, but the time limit and Modified Victory rule heavily benefiting "point fortresses".

It's been mentioned time and again that hardly any matches go to time at these tournaments. Again, it's not as big of an issue as people make it out to be.

You are a brave man to start this thread on a topic that means many different things to many different people.

Any closest to the pin bets on how many pages this goes? I say at least 11.

I'm grabbing some popcorn.

What can I say? I like to live dangerously lol

Why? Are they gone ?

oh...they're only in over half of all winning lists

also seriously, the PWT is not Han Solo nor the millennium falcon. That turret advantage could have been implemented in almost uncountable ways, FFG just chose the laziest

Why? Are they gone ?

oh...they're only in over half of all winning lists

also seriously, the PWT is not Han Solo nor the millennium falcon. That turret advantage could have been implemented in almost uncountable ways, FFG just chose the laziest

Though that may be true, implementing a change to the mechanic now will not work.

28/51 is really not that bad when you consider how much people complain about how OP they are. If they were so OP the percentage would be higher.

Also, there is a cause and effect to these claims about turrets.

People claim fat turrets are OP -> people bring more fat turrets to tournaments and less turret counters -> more turrets place top 8.

If I'm reading the Regionals results correctly, 28 winners included a turret, 23 didn't.

Does this really justify a fix, errata, nerf?

I'm still seeing Phantoms winning, do they require another nerf?

I think people continue looking for problems where there are none.

I'd like to play my Millenium Falcon in casual games/tourneys please. That's the reason I got into this game. To play with my favorite tiny little ships. Don't spoil it for me!

Well my Decimator Model lost its top turret so it is no longer able to shoot ing a 360. So my decimator gave in to the masses.... ARE YOU HAPPY WITH WHAT YOUVE DONE.... monsters. but seriously good =/= broken.

I don't think they're OP, I just think they're ungodly boring and poorly designed

I'm also not sold on the self-fulfilling prophecy on any level apart from local. While playing against PWT is little more than a dice-fest, a poor opponent will stack the odds in your favor by doing inexperienced things (such as jousting ). If the list isn't a double turret, then it's also very possible that inexperience will cost him/her the far more difficult to utilize arced wingman (especially soontir)

there is skill required in outplaying your opponent, even if your opponent is not allowed to outplay you, in that you still have to do that work. The stupid catch all mechanic + hot dice + mov skews will save a poor player, but I'm not sure it could hold across the number of games and players that attend at a regional level.

Basically, I'm not sold that the strength of turret is all in our heads even if they're not op. What is all in our head is the occasional occurrence of the baffling idea that turrets are somehow needed to counter arc dodgers. If the only way to counter a mechanic is to scrub it out of existence entirely, then the game's got a problem that we're not properly addressing .

People claim fat turrets are OP -> people bring more fat turrets to tournaments and less turret counters -> more turrets place top 8.

Actually, most people have evolved to notice that fat turrets have a natural advantage in tournaments. Most think it's due to points fortress.

I do think that over half of the lists winning Regionals being Fat Turrets is a clear indicator that there is a problem somewhere.

As far as I have understood, the problem is not turrets, but the time limit and Modified Victory rule heavily benefiting "point fortresses".

You mean the couple topics that cropped up on this board the past few days? That means nothing.

I don't think they're OP, I just think they're ungodly boring and poorly designed

I'm also not sold on the self-fulfilling prophecy on any level apart from local. While playing against PWT is little more than a dice-fest, a poor opponent will stack the odds in your favor by doing inexperienced things (such as jousting ). If the list isn't a double turret, then it's also very possible that inexperience will cost him/her the far more difficult to utilize arced wingman (especially soontir)

there is skill required in outplaying your opponent, even if your opponent is not allowed to outplay you, in that you still have to do that work. The stupid catch all mechanic + hot dice + mov skews will save a poor player, but I'm not sure it could hold across the number of games and players that attend at a regional level.

Basically, I'm not sold that the strength of turret is all in our heads even if they're not op. What is all in our head is the occasional occurrence of the baffling idea that turrets are somehow needed to counter arc dodgers. If the only way to counter a mechanic is to scrub it out of existence entirely, then the game's got a problem that we're not properly addressing .

I think it was addressed with autothrusters. Not every ship is able to equip it, but the "original" arc dodgers can (A-Wings, Interceptors). Maybe if we wait we will see more turret counter upgrades that work against the 360 mechanic? One thing at a time. FFG can't please everyone at once. Let's give them time.

I don't think they're OP, I just think they're ungodly boring and poorly designed

They are less fun than ships with arcs, I would totally agree. But that just means I don't really play them, because the fun I get out of arcs is mostly weighted towards my own ships and getting them pointed in the right direction rather than getting out of theirs. Soontir boost and barrel roll to get out of an arc isn't really satisfying in any meaningful fashion.

As long as PWTs aren't overpowered to the point where you can't win without one, they don't bother me. I would like to see more mechanics (like Autothrusters) aimed directly at them (and fat ships in general) though.

I've never been bored in a game against a turret. They usually have a LOT going on besides just throwing dice. I've had some rebel joust mirror matches that weren't particularly engaging though.

Dear OP,

Has MoV and combos like MF Title, Engine, Han, C3PO been fixed yet?

There is your answer.

I don't believe that over 50% of the lists that won containing a turret means something is wrong. 100% of the lists that one had Star Wars ships in them - lol. Good players will fly what they feel gives them a good chance at winning. If all ships were supposed to be equal, they'd all have the same cost, attack, defence and maneuverability. I personally love the variety this game has. I sometimes fly turrets and sometimes I don't. I like using "suprise" lists.

You still have to have a strategy and your dice still have fall in your favour.

I think far too much time is wasted on complaining that this or that needs fixing. There are so many differnet combinations of ships/pilots/factions you can run in this game and it makes it awesome.

100 point lists might be an issue. I'd like to see 125 points or something like that for tournaments. With 100 points I've never been able to kit any squad out exactly like I want to so that probably evens things out a bit too.

There will always be ships and combos that are better than something else and they will always have counter lists. Its like rock-paper-scissors. I haven't seen a single squad to date that hasn't lost a match - if that happens, then soemthing is broken but until then I think things are fine.

That turret advantage could have been implemented in almost uncountable ways, FFG just chose the laziest

To be fair it was Wave 2, X-Wing wasn't really a big thing and they were still using formulae in part for point costs. It's from the wave that produced Arvel Crynyd, Expose and Fel's Wrath. It's two waves before they realised charging for the EPT slot was kind of daft and that pilot abilities sucked for the costs they were charging.

I think it was addressed with autothrusters. Not every ship is able to equip it, but the "original" arc dodgers can (A-Wings, Interceptors). Maybe if we wait we will see more turret counter upgrades that work against the 360 mechanic? One thing at a time. FFG can't please everyone at once. Let's give them time.

I think it's sad that we even needed auto-thrusters in the first place, since they just go to show you how poorly turrets integrate with ships in the game that actually require skillful maneuvering to even live. Though I obviously appreciate them now since they're better than nothing, I just wish turrets didn't have to **** interceptors so badly in the first place

That turret advantage could have been implemented in almost uncountable ways, FFG just chose the laziest

To be fair it was Wave 2, X-Wing wasn't really a big thing and they were still using formulae in part for point costs. It's from the wave that produced Arvel Crynyd, Expose and Fel's Wrath. It's two waves before they realised charging for the EPT slot was kind of daft and that pilot abilities sucked for the costs they were charging.

that is my personal theory for why the rule was ever greenlit

People claim fat turrets are OP -> people bring more fat turrets to tournaments and less turret counters -> more turrets place top 8.

Actually, most people have evolved to notice that fat turrets have a natural advantage in tournaments. Most think it's due to points fortress.

I do think that over half of the lists winning Regionals being Fat Turrets is a clear indicator that there is a problem somewhere.

Ok, a second look shows 8/51 winners were dual turrets. So 20 of the other lists had some kind of support. How many of these lists won because of their support?

Dash would be nothing without Corran. RAC would be pulverized without Soontir. Heck, I won my Regionals with Han+3Z and it was 2 Bandits against Corran in the end game. You can't count out the rest of the build just because it included a turret.

I don't believe that over 50% of the lists that won containing a turret means something is wrong. 100% of the lists that one had Star Wars ships in them - lol. Good players will fly what they feel gives them a good chance at winning.

If that doesn't mean something is wrong, then would constitute something wrong? I've heard from enough people in real life (not just a few vocal online minority) that the meta is boring and stale.

I think far too much time is wasted on complaining that this or that needs fixing. There are so many differnet combinations of ships/pilots/factions you can run in this game and it makes it awesome.

I do agree with this, though.

People claim fat turrets are OP -> people bring more fat turrets to tournaments and less turret counters -> more turrets place top 8.

Actually, most people have evolved to notice that fat turrets have a natural advantage in tournaments. Most think it's due to points fortress.

I do think that over half of the lists winning Regionals being Fat Turrets is a clear indicator that there is a problem somewhere.

Ok, a second look shows 8/51 winners were dual turrets. So 20 of the other lists had some kind of support. How many of these lists won because of their support?

Dash would be nothing without Corran. RAC would be pulverized without Soontir. Heck, I won my Regionals with Han+3Z and it was 2 Bandits against Corran in the end game. You can't count out the rest of the build just because it included a turret.

Yes, but over half the lists had some sort of Fat Turret. It wasn't Corran w/ someone else. The support is support. It's not Corran with support.

Ok, a second look shows 8/51 winners were dual turrets. So 20 of the other lists had some kind of support. How many of these lists won because of their support?

Dash would be nothing without Corran. RAC would be pulverized without Soontir. Heck, I won my Regionals with Han+3Z and it was 2 Bandits against Corran in the end game. You can't count out the rest of the build just because it included a turret.

The first post was fairly convincing but this comes across as a little desperate.

It's making the assumption that the way you measure how good something is if it works when you run it with itself. That's judging the TIE defender by triple defenders or the even less wise dual defenders, that the TIE interceptor is at its best when run with other TIE interceptors and suggesting the old TIE phantom was better when run with itself.

People claim fat turrets are OP -> people bring more fat turrets to tournaments and less turret counters -> more turrets place top 8.

Actually, most people have evolved to notice that fat turrets have a natural advantage in tournaments. Most think it's due to points fortress.

I do think that over half of the lists winning Regionals being Fat Turrets is a clear indicator that there is a problem somewhere.

Ok, a second look shows 8/51 winners were dual turrets. So 20 of the other lists had some kind of support. How many of these lists won because of their support?

Dash would be nothing without Corran. RAC would be pulverized without Soontir. Heck, I won my Regionals with Han+3Z and it was 2 Bandits against Corran in the end game. You can't count out the rest of the build just because it included a turret.

Yes, but over half the lists had some sort of Fat Turret. It wasn't Corran w/ someone else. The support is support. It's not Corran with support.

That's because that's how it's somehow being classified. More often than not in those two builds I described, Corran and Soontir are in the end game more often than the other ship. And usually they are clutch enough to close out the win. I would go as far as to consider the turrets as the support. They are just a big body guard to these aces. Which plays out exactly like it should.

I respectfully disagree.