So one of my players is playing a Pirate Prince of the Ragged helix and plans on making a series of greater minions based around having the size (1) trait, fanatical, high defense and medicae, while the player having high agility/fellowship, good dodge/parry, assassin strike, a jump pack and the unholy devotion talent.

The player is arguing that the minions will be on them at all times, by carrying rules, and as such, can hang on indefinitely, jumping in front of attacks when need be, healing their own damage, healing any damage the player might take, if, by chance, the player were to take a hit through their own 2 dodges, shield, ability to stay out of range and minion support.

Which, as you can imagine, leads to a series of problematic thoughts.

At first we considered mounting rules, but that would drastically limit the number of actions the player would be able to take, as it would impose that the minion would be moving with the player's movement, and the player would just be able to have one attack per turn, along with a myrriad of other issues. So, we scrapped that idea as it simply didn't make sense. So the logistics of that, and of any method of how actions fucntion when being carried by another individual, are up in the air and unexplained.

Secondly there is the issue of the fact that the player currently has managed to attain a fellowship bonus of 8 or so, which when combined with lord of chaos, means they will soon be able to get up to 12 minions of this description, which will make them all but invincible in just about any situation other than one in which I am purpously singling them out to antagonize.

Even if there's no real way to reign this in, I'd at least appreciate some level of assistance understanding the rules that would come into play in regards to carrying around 12 minions on you at all times.

Does it make sense in the setting to have him/her/it run around with 12 "creatures" on his person?

Wouldn't he be noticed easily by loyalists and ridiculed by fellow chaos worshippers?

Does he really want to spend the time commanding 12 minions ?

Does the minions really like to be injured/killed all the time?, word could get around and they could try and run away/make it tough for the Prince to find replacements.

Last but not least,

Is it not cowardly to shy away from pleasure and pain by hiding from new experiences behind lesser beings?

(Slaanesh dissaproves - ala 1 corruption through a Failing each time a wounding strike is blocked)

You as the GM is the final arbitrator of the story after all.

Update your Medicae rules to DH2 (always heals INTB+DoS, penalized -10 if Heavily Wounded, -10 per crit damage, each person can only benefit 1/day). First Aid will have a greater effect on more heavily wounded targets, but the skill won't be constantly usable. Minions using up two traits on size and fanatic shouldn't be very tough, they ought to be dying or near dying when taking a hit. Couple that with DH2 medicae and the character will have some back-n-forth on his resources again.

You can also fix a 'dodge OP' issue by porting in Inescapable Attack, Tier 2 Talent, penalizes evasion by DoSx10. So really, just adopt as much as you can from the more recent system. See also the new fatigue and blood loss rules.

Blast and Spray attacks should also be problems for this character.

Update your Medicae rules to DH2 (always heals INTB+DoS, penalized -10 if Heavily Wounded, -10 per crit damage, each person can only benefit 1/day). First Aid will have a greater effect on more heavily wounded targets, but the skill won't be constantly usable. Minions using up two traits on size and fanatic shouldn't be very tough, they ought to be dying or near dying when taking a hit. Couple that with DH2 medicae and the character will have some back-n-forth on his resources again.

You can also fix a 'dodge OP' issue by porting in Inescapable Attack, Tier 2 Talent, penalizes evasion by DoSx10. So really, just adopt as much as you can from the more recent system. See also the new fatigue and blood loss rules.

Blast and Spray attacks should also be problems for this character.

They seem to believe that the minion block will stop a spray weapon, which I outright call bull on if we're being perfectly honest, also, on a side note, the minion has a total toughness bonus somewhere around 12 if I recall.

What I caaant seem to find, are any rulings based on item use and size, anyone know where something like that might exist?

Also thanks keffisch, but as much as I am looking for ways to reel in this character, I think if I started applying corruption for every attack they blocked, it would very much come off as me singling out and victimising their character, which I have been trying to avoid doing where possible. I may eventually have to put my foot down and start implimenting rules like these though, cause as much as the player believes it's their right to be more powerful if they designed their character that way, it's honestly just a huge drain on the the story, as a good portion of the encounters have to be tailor made to actually be able to anything to this one player (who is also making use of a legacy velkyr rapier, a jump pack, assassin strike and raptor, leaving them as effectively the heaviest hitter in the party as well.)

Fear can also help against such opponents...

Imagine that, all your minions running away.

If the minion is Size 1, they should not be able to stop Spray or Blast using the Fanatic trait unless more than one minion contributes to this. Technically per Fanatic, they are soaking the 'hit', so they can indeed block spray or blast, but because they are also in the spray/blast, they are taking two hits from the effect. This can mean twice as many chances to be set on fire etc.

Athanatosz raises a good point, each minion must check for Fear independently if the player does not possess Into the Jaws of Hell (which they ought to have). However, Into the Jaws does not protect against the Willpower test made by individuals who are on fire. If the minions catch flame, they must pass a will save per round or detach.

A minion with 12 TB ought to be unreasonably dense, having a higher weight. I'm expecting these minions are conceptually a sort of turtle-headcrab thing with an underbelly of segmented limbs capable of fine manipulation. If the controlling player is a chaos space marine, weight is not likely to become a limiting factor, but it merits mention. Assuming CSM, horde attacks are not subject to evasion, and can help you with hitting the player (Renegades *can* evade Horde attacks, they treat hordes more like standard enemies).

If the player can clear each of these hurdles, then he is probably actually balanced for his amount of experience/gear (assuming the medicae change). Considering the minion build rules, the player could have a single Size 6-8 minion with Flyer 6, TB 4, Unnatural Toughness 4, Natural Armor 8, armored up via items to a total damage reduction of 22-24 with 16-20 wounds. That minion then acts as a tank for other minions to ride around in/on and shoot from. It's about as powerful as a Sentinel Walker at that point.

Wait wait wait....

Tb 12 as Toughness bonus 12 as Tb and unnatural Toughness?

First: how?

Core rule book give greater minions a maximum 40+4 which 8...(Tome of Excess can get him/her a 20+5+2d10)

Are we counting some kind of armor to? (worn, natural, machine)

Second: play out an enemy with the horde of minions talent(Tome of Excess).

"Oh so you got 12 minions what about my 40? Grapple & R@pe Boys! Grapple and R@pe...."

Wait wait wait....

Tb 12 as Toughness bonus 12 as Tb and unnatural Toughness?

First: how?

Core rule book give greater minions a maximum 40+4 which 8...(Tome of Excess can get him/her a 20+5+2d10)

Are we counting some kind of armor to? (worn, natural, machine)

Second: play out an enemy with the horde of minions talent(Tome of Excess).

"Oh so you got 12 minions what about my 40? Grapple & R@pe Boys! Grapple and R@pe...."

Also on a side note: demonic 4, unnat toughness 4, base 4.

thanks..

With 12 greater minions the player could arrange them into a CSM kill team. Greater minions has the potential to be made in the shape of a casual Astrates basic (like characteristic+Racial advances from core book)

As Gm, you're well within your rights to declare there is only one such minion around and any further minions must be different

But, on the other side, I'm a firm believer in letting the players have their fun. Let him have the minions and the insane defenses and let him have moments where it really comes through. And then have some moments where they are useless and another player has to shine through. There are lots of things that hit everything in an area like a the khorne talisman from ToB or a librarian's smite. There are psionics that deal damage without being a bolt or blast. Nurgles rot and psychic scream come to mind.

With all this exp being spent on minions, his character has to be really weak relatively speaking.

You may want to check your exp awards. A lot of GMs on the forums shoot for 100 xp per infamy ratio giving an end game of somewhere between 8000 and 12000 xp total.