So, in my campaign (set in 3 ABY, right before Empire Strikes Back), my players have come across an ancient Harrower class derelict. Details aside, they will be using it as a base for a while. As such, I'd like to be able to have stats for the ship. Looking around, I see LibrariaNPC and Ghostofman seem to do some good work in this regard. I know LibrariaNPC had the Harrower on his list of capital ships to do, but I haven't seen any stats posted. So, I've had an attempt at statting it out, keep in mind, this is my first attempt at statting out a ship. Also, this is for a stock ship, fresh off the assembly line.

Harrower Class Dreadnaught

Silhouette: 8, Speed: 2; Handling: -3; Defenses: 2 /2/2/2; Armor: 8; Hull Threshold: 120; System Strain Threshold: 45

Hull Type/Class: Dreadnaught/Harrower

Manufacturer: Taerab Starship Manufacturing

Hyperdrive: Primary: Class 2, Backup: Class 15

Navicomputer: Yes.

Sensor Range: Long

Ship's Compliment: 2,400 crew, 7,200 troops

Starfighter Compliment: 96 Mark IV Supremacy class starfighters, 32 B-28 Extinction class bombers, 35 shuttles

Encumbrance Capacity: 5,300

Rarity: R)/8

Customization Hardpoints: 2

Weapons:

• 8 port and 8 starboard light quad turbolaser batteries (Fire Arc: Port and Forward or Starboard and Forward; Damage: 9; Crit: 3, Range: [Medium]; Breach 2, Linked 3, Slow-Firing 1)
• 8 port and 8 starboard medium twin turbolaser batteries (Fire Arc: Port and Forward or Starboard and Forward; Damage: 10; Crit: 3; Range: [Long]; Breach 3, Linked 1, Slow-Firing: 1)
• 5 port and 5 starboard twin battleship ion cannon batteries (Fire Arc: Port and Forward or Starboard and Forward; Damage: 9; Crit: 4, Range: [Medium]; Breach 3, Ion, Linked 1, Slow-Firing 2)
• 10 assault concussion missile launchers (Fire Arc: Forward; Damage: 7; Crit: 3; Range: [short]; Blast 4, Breach 5, Guided 2, Inaccurate 1, Slow-Firing 1)
• 10 forward-mounted proton torpedo launchers (Fire Arc: Forward; Damage: 8; Crit: 2; Range: [short]; Blast 6, Breach 6, Guided 2, Slow-Firing 1)

Special: Massive 1

A few notes on how I arrived at these stats:

• I took the Victory II (AoR, p284) and modified it to fit what the wiki page says about the Harrower. I tried to keep the balance the same as the Victory, though with my stats, there's 2 more total turbolasers. I did this to match the models from swtor (they clearly have 32 total turrets visible). Unfortunately, there seems to not be any visible turrets for the ion cannons, so I'm not sure what to do there.
• The encumbrance capacity is something I have no real feeling for, however since the Harrower is 100 meters shorter, I decided to shave some encumbrance off.
• The number of fighters listed seem ridiculous . Compared to the 24 fighters from the Victory II, I'm not sure what to do.

I'm really looking for some feedback on this, so all comments welcome.

Update : Modified the stats as per LibrariaNPC's suggestions.

I had a writeup and then a computer failure made me lose what I have. Here's the abbreviated version:

First, statting up capital ships is a royal pain: tons of guns, massive crew needed, and there's the challenge of scaling Hull, System, and Encumbrance (the latter making the least amount of sense after you break out of Silhouette 5). It's a fun task, but challenging and very time consuming to do right.

That said:

1) Comparing to a Victory-class is very fitting due to size and armament, but not entirely so for the purpose of the ship, as the Harrower is more of an invasion/supression ship (which explains the fighter and troop differences). That said, it's still an excellent place to start.

2) For the weapon loadout, have you seen the Visual Encyclopedia of the Old Republic? It should help with getting exact numbers and locations, and makes for a great read.

I borrowed a copy last summer from another library via InterLibrary Loan, but sadly lost all of the notes I made when I moved, or else I'd offer more insight.

I do like how you chose where the ion cannons go; very fitting and useful!

3) As a point of argument: I'd scale the Hyperdrive to a x2. A number of ships from the Old Republic Era were at a x2, probably due to cost or accessibility of the technology (just guesses). I'd try to stay along those lines.

4) Ditch the cost. When it comes to warships, I'd try to avoid naming a price at all unless it's a "Black Market Estimate," and even then, I make it explode in value.

As for Rarity, I'd raise it to a 7 or even an 8. Even at their peak, you could only find them in certain areas, namely in Imperial space or on battlegrounds, and due to the resources needed to build even just ONE of these, they weren't everywhere. Star Destroyers are, in comparison, much easier to find, and therefore should be at a lower rarity (but not by much).

5) I understand your concerns regarding the starfighter complement, but I'd leave it as per whatever the source material says. Remember that the design of the ship impacts the stats, and since this ship was just as much used for invasion and suppression, it had more fighters and troops compared to the Victory, which was a cheap and affordable way to get a well-armed presence in an area.

6) For encumbrance, I'd actually make it even lower, perhaps in the 5000 range. Note that this ship has a MUCH larger vehicle and troop loadout than a Victory, which chews up available "extra" cargo space.

7) With regards to the shields, I'm not sure how I feel about the one facing getting a three. Yes, there are four shield generators, but I think that may be for size rather than an extra point.

Also not sure how I feel about Armor 9. Personally, seeing how the craft is acting as a catch-all, I wouldn't be surprised to see it hitting an Armor 8 to be between a Victory-class and a Dreadnought.

8) Drop the HP in half. These ships were built to purpose and not much else, and I feel that some things had to give to make it happen. Only a few true warships have HP in the first place, and only a few of them reach the 4 HP range. I'd give it the same as an ISD of 2.

9) I think Hull should be closer to the Victory-class, not over it, IMHO. The ship is a bit smaller and is close in the armor category, and while it doesn't have some of the same glaring weaknesses as the Victory-class (that cause so many problems), it does have more empty space that loses supports (namely, large fighter bay). Bring it to be the same, and you should be okay.

No major complaints on the System Strain. I'd debate about raising it to 45 to be a bit better than the unstable Dreadnought but slightly worse than a Victory-class.

Now, I will note that, as this is a derelict, the stats it should start with should be MUCH lower as systems are either not functional or even present, hull may be lower due to damage or salvage, etc. There was a really cool thread Ghostofman and I took part in with regarding to statting up a Venator to be used as a base in a similar fashion that the players would build back up instead of just living in the derelict. Fun stuff there!

I hope that helps with the goal you have in mind!

I

4) Ditch the cost. When it comes to warships, I'd try to avoid naming a price at all unless it's a "Black Market Estimate," and even then, I make it explode in value.

As for Rarity, I'd raise it to a 7 or even an 8. Even at their peak, you could only find them in certain areas, namely in Imperial space or on battlegrounds, and due to the resources needed to build even just ONE of these, they weren't everywhere. Star Destroyers are, in comparison, much easier to find, and therefore should be at a lower rarity (but not by much).

Pssst...Hey buddy... you wanna buy an aircraft carrier? It's got all the aircraft.... real cheap, fell off a truck this morning....

I had a writeup and then a computer failure made me lose what I have. Here's the abbreviated version:

First, statting up capital ships is a royal pain: tons of guns, massive crew needed, and there's the challenge of scaling Hull, System, and Encumbrance (the latter making the least amount of sense after you break out of Silhouette 5). It's a fun task, but challenging and very time consuming to do right.

That said:

1) Comparing to a Victory-class is very fitting due to size and armament, but not entirely so for the purpose of the ship, as the Harrower is more of an invasion/supression ship (which explains the fighter and troop differences). That said, it's still an excellent place to start.

2) For the weapon loadout, have you seen the Visual Encyclopedia of the Old Republic? It should help with getting exact numbers and locations, and makes for a great read.

I borrowed a copy last summer from another library via InterLibrary Loan, but sadly lost all of the notes I made when I moved, or else I'd offer more insight.

I do like how you chose where the ion cannons go; very fitting and useful!

3) As a point of argument: I'd scale the Hyperdrive to a x2. A number of ships from the Old Republic Era were at a x2, probably due to cost or accessibility of the technology (just guesses). I'd try to stay along those lines.

4) Ditch the cost. When it comes to warships, I'd try to avoid naming a price at all unless it's a "Black Market Estimate," and even then, I make it explode in value.

As for Rarity, I'd raise it to a 7 or even an 8. Even at their peak, you could only find them in certain areas, namely in Imperial space or on battlegrounds, and due to the resources needed to build even just ONE of these, they weren't everywhere. Star Destroyers are, in comparison, much easier to find, and therefore should be at a lower rarity (but not by much).

5) I understand your concerns regarding the starfighter complement, but I'd leave it as per whatever the source material says. Remember that the design of the ship impacts the stats, and since this ship was just as much used for invasion and suppression, it had more fighters and troops compared to the Victory, which was a cheap and affordable way to get a well-armed presence in an area.

6) For encumbrance, I'd actually make it even lower, perhaps in the 5000 range. Note that this ship has a MUCH larger vehicle and troop loadout than a Victory, which chews up available "extra" cargo space.

7) With regards to the shields, I'm not sure how I feel about the one facing getting a three. Yes, there are four shield generators, but I think that may be for size rather than an extra point.

Also not sure how I feel about Armor 9. Personally, seeing how the craft is acting as a catch-all, I wouldn't be surprised to see it hitting an Armor 8 to be between a Victory-class and a Dreadnought.

8) Drop the HP in half. These ships were built to purpose and not much else, and I feel that some things had to give to make it happen. Only a few true warships have HP in the first place, and only a few of them reach the 4 HP range. I'd give it the same as an ISD of 2.

9) I think Hull should be closer to the Victory-class, not over it, IMHO. The ship is a bit smaller and is close in the armor category, and while it doesn't have some of the same glaring weaknesses as the Victory-class (that cause so many problems), it does have more empty space that loses supports (namely, large fighter bay). Bring it to be the same, and you should be okay.

No major complaints on the System Strain. I'd debate about raising it to 45 to be a bit better than the unstable Dreadnought but slightly worse than a Victory-class.

Now, I will note that, as this is a derelict, the stats it should start with should be MUCH lower as systems are either not functional or even present, hull may be lower due to damage or salvage, etc. There was a really cool thread Ghostofman and I took part in with regarding to statting up a Venator to be used as a base in a similar fashion that the players would build back up instead of just living in the derelict. Fun stuff there!

I hope that helps with the goal you have in mind!

Thanks for the reply! For the most part, I completely agree with the changes you suggest. Once I read them, several were sort of "Oh, right ." moments for me. I will update the OP with the changes when I get a little more time. But, to address a few points:

2) No, I have not heard of it! I mostly just went based on flying around the Imperial Fleet in SWTOR; got some nice screenshots, but it was a bit of a pain. Checking around for a copy, I can't seem to find something of that exact name... did you perhaps mean this ?

4) Yeah, that was just more a copy/paste without wanting to put too much effort into it; my players will not be purchasing any of these. The Rarity totally makes sense, again, just copied the Victory, but I like your suggestions much better.

7) Yeah, I've been hemming/hawing over that since I wrote it down. I think that saying, "older shield tech, needs more generators for the same strength" makes me feel ok with keeping the shields at 2/2/2/2. Regarding the armor, AFAIK, the ship was the warship of the Sith Empire, so having it be it's heaviest armored kinda makes some sense. Otoh, I really dislike "So a 3000 year old ship is as good, if not better than our current stuff." So, I'll probably drop the Armor to 8 if for no other reason than to show technological progression.

8) Also another excellent point. I didn't look to closely at the Imp Star, but your rational makes perfect sense.

9) Regarding SS of 45, that does make some sense; I really was going for the "it's older tech, can't handle as much" angle... but I would rather be better than the Dreadnaught.

I did read through that entire thread on the Venator before posting; it's why I even knew to seek your advice. It was really cool, and I'm borrowing the Tiers idea.

In case you're interested, the story for the ship was that it was an active Sith Warship, when a ThoughtBomb was set off on the planet below. Normally those only effect force users and in a smaller radius, but the location was a Force Nexus, so I bumped up the effects. (Plus I love the creepy atmosphere of a ship that looks like the crew just vanished; Bushwacked is one of my favorite Firefly episodes.) Originally the ship was going to be window dressing, but my players did the smart thing and asked about fixing it up/using it as a base (as opposed to the Hutt they have a bunch of obligation to, now), so I decided I'd let them buy off some of that obligation in exchange for obligation to fixing the ship. I was super happy when I saw that as a suggestion in the Venator thread!

On another note; once I make the changes, I'd love to see my take included in your Starship Yard, should you ever get free time to work on the capital ship side of it. I'd be interested in contributing to it more; have you considered maybe putting the source for the PDFs up on GitHub (assuming you're even familiar; as a software developer, I often forget not everyone knows what I'm talking about...)? There's several ways to generate PDFs from, say, json files; I can envision using GitHub as a nice collaborative tool for this... it's a thought at least.

I

4) Ditch the cost. When it comes to warships, I'd try to avoid naming a price at all unless it's a "Black Market Estimate," and even then, I make it explode in value.

As for Rarity, I'd raise it to a 7 or even an 8. Even at their peak, you could only find them in certain areas, namely in Imperial space or on battlegrounds, and due to the resources needed to build even just ONE of these, they weren't everywhere. Star Destroyers are, in comparison, much easier to find, and therefore should be at a lower rarity (but not by much).

Pssst...Hey buddy... you wanna buy an aircraft carrier? It's got all the aircraft.... real cheap, fell off a truck this morning....

Sounds Legit!

Thanks for the reply! For the most part, I completely agree with the changes you suggest. Once I read them, several were sort of "Oh, right ." moments for me. I will update the OP with the changes when I get a little more time. But, to address a few points:

2) No, I have not heard of it! I mostly just went based on flying around the Imperial Fleet in SWTOR; got some nice screenshots, but it was a bit of a pain. Checking around for a copy, I can't seem to find something of that exact name... did you perhaps mean this ?

4) Yeah, that was just more a copy/paste without wanting to put too much effort into it; my players will not be purchasing any of these. The Rarity totally makes sense, again, just copied the Victory, but I like your suggestions much better.

7) Yeah, I've been hemming/hawing over that since I wrote it down. I think that saying, "older shield tech, needs more generators for the same strength" makes me feel ok with keeping the shields at 2/2/2/2. Regarding the armor, AFAIK, the ship was the warship of the Sith Empire, so having it be it's heaviest armored kinda makes some sense. Otoh, I really dislike "So a 3000 year old ship is as good, if not better than our current stuff." So, I'll probably drop the Armor to 8 if for no other reason than to show technological progression.

8) Also another excellent point. I didn't look to closely at the Imp Star, but your rational makes perfect sense.

9) Regarding SS of 45, that does make some sense; I really was going for the "it's older tech, can't handle as much" angle... but I would rather be better than the Dreadnaught.

I did read through that entire thread on the Venator before posting; it's why I even knew to seek your advice. It was really cool, and I'm borrowing the Tiers idea.

In case you're interested, the story for the ship was that it was an active Sith Warship, when a ThoughtBomb was set off on the planet below. Normally those only effect force users and in a smaller radius, but the location was a Force Nexus, so I bumped up the effects. (Plus I love the creepy atmosphere of a ship that looks like the crew just vanished; Bushwacked is one of my favorite Firefly episodes.) Originally the ship was going to be window dressing, but my players did the smart thing and asked about fixing it up/using it as a base (as opposed to the Hutt they have a bunch of obligation to, now), so I decided I'd let them buy off some of that obligation in exchange for obligation to fixing the ship. I was super happy when I saw that as a suggestion in the Venator thread!

On another note; once I make the changes, I'd love to see my take included in your Starship Yard, should you ever get free time to work on the capital ship side of it. I'd be interested in contributing to it more; have you considered maybe putting the source for the PDFs up on GitHub (assuming you're even familiar; as a software developer, I often forget not everyone knows what I'm talking about...)? There's several ways to generate PDFs from, say, json files; I can envision using GitHub as a nice collaborative tool for this... it's a thought at least.

Glad to be of service!

My apologies for the unusual delay; I've spent the past five days at a blacksmithing class learning how to make a sword (and somehow left with one). Fourteen hour days in the smithy is not conducive to being online, apparently. . .

2) Yeah, that's the book. I tend to cross titles after a while; working in a library tends to do that (and I rely on fuzzy logic for a lot of things with specific titles nowadays because of it). It's a really wonderful title and, if I were running an Old Republic campaign, that would have been the first book I would have grabbed.

I'm still looking at getting it anyway because it's just a lovely book.

4) Glad it helps! Remember that you're working with a ship that is nowhere NEAR the correct era, so the rarity and estimated value is really variable; like an old car, a collector may pay top credit if it's even serviceable, while scrap value is negligible in comparison.

7) It's hard to say what "four shield generators" means. It could be backup generators (like the Mon Calamari), or it could just be the various facings. They could have worked with the lowest bidder who gave them crap generators, and it needed four for that reason.

I'd leave it in the 2 range across the board as it is a warship, but I don't think it's got the same expected oomph as an ISD or the defensive qualities of an MC90.

Also remember that Star Wars functions in a state of Technology Stasis. Advancements are negligible, and new technologies are VERY rare. They basically use the same technology and just change the design or make a minor upgrade that isn't great enough to reproduce.

Take a look at blasters. The reasons why blasters change tends to be preference according to canon. Legends showed a bit more of a reason, like reduced time between shots.

That said, it's FULLY possible that a 3000 year old ship is as good, if not better than, a modern ship...if it was well taken care of. It may also lack some of the more "modern perks" that weren't used thousands of years ago.

9) See above regarding "older tech." If the ship is in disrepair, then just make it weaker to start, don't make a fully functional version inferior.

Thread: It's a fun thread, and glad you read through it! I'd surely do something like the tiers if I were in your shoes.

GitHub: I've heard about it when I was in grad school, but never had the chance of need to use it. If I ever get around to revisiting it (or get enough requests to motivate me to sit down and just plug out more things), I'll consider it!