I played with this today (Vic2, Screed, ICBs, H9, Warlord) and so far, I've not seen the point of it.

Losing 1 command token doesn't sound too painful, plus if he doesn't have a token, all I can damage is a shield... if he has no shields, well, no damage. Sure, 1 shield damage is better than none but more often than not, I've done enough damage to get into his hull so a faceup damage card sounds so much better rather than being able to do 1 shield damage.

I think today I might as well have left it out and had a 5-point bid for initiative.

Keeping in mind that the crit effect resolves before the actual damage, it gives you the following options:

- If the target had a command token that's going to cause you problems, remove it.

- If the target starts off with shields and no command tokens, remove a shield (effectively an extra point of damage).

- If the target has no shields, or has no command tokens you want to remove, or you just want to take your chance on the faceup damage card, use the standard crit effect.

I hope your intent here

all I can damage is a shield... if he has no shields, well, no damage.

Was "no EXTRA damage", since the critical effect is in addition to the damage your doing.

Weapons with extra critical effects provide flexibility. With ICBs, if your attack is not going to penetrate his shields, use the ICBs to do more to him than you otherwise would have, if your attack IS going to penetrate his shields, use the default critical effect and do a face up card.

I agree with the options you present but like I said, I fail to see how ICB's effect is more useful than the normal crit effect. Maybe, MAYBE if I rolled 1 blue crit and 2 hits and he had three shields on the defending hull (assuming no defense tokens to be spent and he has no command tokens), then the 1 shield taken off by ICB is helpful as he ends up with one facedown damage card...... but like I said, so far, most attacks I've done have guaranteed I'll get past his shields and into his hull so it was better for me to trigger the normal crit effect. 5 points spent for the possibility of that scenario (1 crit, 2 hit vs 3 shields) doesn't seem to be a good tradeoff especially if I could've gone for initiative bid.

Forgottenlore, you are correct. Apologies for not being clear... I did mean no damage from the ICB upgrade card in particular.

EDIT: Please note that this card is equipped to a Vic2... by the time I'm rolling blue dice, I'm also rolling reds plus with H9 and Warlord, I'd rather roll more reds to trigger H9+Warlord for a double-HIT. If ICB can be more useful on a different ship, please say which ship it is on.

Put it this way: Do you ever find yourself dealing a relatively useless effect from a face-up damage card, and just wishing you had done an extra point of damage instead? It's happened often enough to me at least.

I think I'd rather "risk" dealing a faceup damage card for the chance of the Structural Damage (?? whatever the card is that does 2 damage)

Also, ICBs only really do "an extra point of damage" to shields and only if the defending ship has no command tokens. If the defending hull has no shields, ICB does not do anything. Wasted 5 points.

Put it this way: How many times have you shot at an enemy ship that had no command tokens?

The ICB upgrade is really designed for ships like the CR90b. Best dice to points ratio of all the ships already, then have it fly around doing nothing but Concentrate Fire commands and throwing 6 blue dice per turn, hopefully being able to activate the ICB on each attack of the two attacks. If done successfully, it's a ridiculous return on investment.

It's also a nice mirror match tech card for Empire, since it hurts Tarkin a lot, especially if you are first player - they add a desperately needed token, you activate first and remove it.

Assuming the target has no command tokens (which I'm finding relatively common once the battle is joined):

So, if the target has no command tokens you'd rather risk getting a card that does an extra point of damage (and could quite easily give some useless effect instead) rather than doing a certain extra point of damage?

Yes, ICBs will only do an extra point of damage when firing on a ship with shields. That's most of my attacks then.

Assuming the target does have command tokens:

The ability to strip your choice of command token can be powerful. Imagine the much feared Demolisher combo suddenly finding itself without its respawning nav token, and unable to use its Engine Techs upgrade. Imagine just about any build relying on Liasons to shift the dial to the right command at the right time, and suddenly without a token to activate.

Overall, I think I can see the trap you're falling into. ICB may not fit your personal style of play, and so you're falling into the trap of thinking they have no point at all. The ICB certainly do has its uses, and is a valid choice for those who care to take advantage of it.

I think your problem is your using the vsd, many upgrades don't work that well on the vsd because it is slow and expensive. Icb would be amazing on corvettes because they get extra damage from it. If it isn't working well for the ship you are using then maybe you shouldn't be using it on that ship

It's a card of very specific circumstances and requirements. I mean ion guns can only be used on two ships, both of which are technically variants right now, plus it's always reliant on blue dice, which let's face it are just as good at getting crits as any other die type (2/8 or 1/4). So... unless you're facing off against certain commanders or support staff the card may or may not be completely worthless. Against a token stacker like myself who loves to spend and save them like crazy? Infinitely useful.

It's terrible and if you're using it you shouldn't be. Overload Pulse is better in every way.

I think your problem is your using the vsd, many upgrades don't work that well on the vsd because it is slow and expensive. Icb would be amazing on corvettes because they get extra damage from it. If it isn't working well for the ship you are using then maybe you shouldn't be using it on that ship

The problem is not the VSD itself, but the fact that all upgrades cost the same on all vessels, yet some profit a lot more than others. ICB is terrible on a VSD, and the reason why it was included on the VIC expansion pack is beyond me as it is only really useful on small ships to disturb and harrass. Likewise, leading shots is in the corvette expansion, but clearly is stronger on the VSD..

It's terrible and if you're using it you shouldn't be. Overload Pulse is better in every way.

I have to agree.

While it's possible to find a ship/build where it can potentially be useful, it's still one of the least useful cards out there.

I've mostly been playing Rebels, but wanting to put in more time with the Empire. One of the builds I'm planning on trying includes

Flagship: (146 pts)

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer(85 pts)

Admiral Screed (26 pts)

Ion Cannon Batteries (5 pts)

H9 Turbolasers (8 pts)

Expanded Hangar Bay (5 pts)

Veteran Captain (3 pts)

Flight Controllers (6 pts)

Warlord (8 pts)

Not cheap, I know, but at that points value it needs to be able to do everything, and ICB is part of that. As a Rebel player I've often used a banked Manoeuvre token to allow me to close in on VSDs, then increase to maximum speed as a way of leapfrogging them and avoiding too many shots from the front arc. It'll also remove the regenerating token if the opponent is using Demolisher/Wulff. ICB is largely there to kill off the banked Manoeuvre, or in some cases engineering. If I'm planning on using this (either to kill a token or take off an extra shield) then I'm safe to use H9s/Warlord on a red crit to turn it into two hits. If I'm desperate to get the ICB shot then Screed is there.

It's situational, and given the range of blue dice it's maybe more points than I really want to spend on its ability. Maybe I'll change my tune once I've played a few games with it, but the utility seems pretty nice.

Plus, after the last tournament I've got an alt-art Vic-II card, it would be a shame not to use it, and if I'm paying for blue dice anyway I might as well take some kind of ion upgrade!

That's just too many points sunk into one hull.

Useless?

Play it on the 39 point corvettes and you will see. It nets them abonus damage as long as the target has shields. It also counters repair token hoarding pretty effectively. It takes away all important nav tokens that have been saved for an emergency. If you fire at a shielded ship with both arcs it can very well mean two bonus damage. After all your enemy might redirect to other hull zones. Also in the very frequent case of hitting a brace action it can prevent only causing 1 damage.

I also don't understand the not being effective thing. I mean against shields your crits cause nothing usually. With this they do something as long as there is no token. And if there are no shields you just take the standard crit. It makes you efficient in 100% of cases. And it helps your other ships that shoot later the turn further mess up the hull of the ship!

That's just too many points sunk into one hull.

Almost certainly, after a few games with it I should be able to figure out what upgrades I'm getting use out and what ones are just bloating up the cost. But going to run it a couple times and hoping to get some use out of the ICB for this.

I have found it to be a of great use early game where my opponents have had time to build up command tokens. You would be surprised what he may have been relying on that for.

Most notably I'd have to point out that the damage done by ICB cannot be mitigated by Redirect, or Brace tokens as it is done by a critical effect (the same way assault concussive missiles work.)

While ICB is nothing to phone home about, I totally disagree that Overload Pulse is of any value on a VSD-II with the currently available fleet builds. Many people seem not to understand how it actually works and dramatically overestimate its real power due to not playing it correctly. If you want that kind of effect on a VSD-II, go with an Intelligence Agent.

It's terrible and if you're using it you shouldn't be. Overload Pulse is better in every way.

for the record I think overload pulse is even worse on The VSD, because it is very difficult to get multiple ships shooting at one target when you only have 2 maybe 3 ships and your opponent is far more manuvreable

Intelligence Agent would not have any effect on follow on attacks from the rest of the fleet.

The problem with OP on a VSD is that it's such a points sink that you need it to do more than just wiping out the target's defences. The Raider will probably be a much better OP platform for this reason, but at the moment the VSD is the only platform we have.

Forget Ion cannons and just pack Leading Shots.

Rerolling your misses is going to add up to more damage than the potential for an extra shield ping.

Forget Ion cannons and just pack Leading Shots.

Rerolling your misses is going to add up to more damage than the potential for an extra shield ping.

Eh, spending a dice means that you'll want to have lots of misses.

Forget Ion cannons and just pack Leading Shots.

Rerolling your misses is going to add up to more damage than the potential for an extra shield ping.

Eh, spending a dice means that you'll want to have lots of misses.

Yeah, but not having a lot of dice means your Ion Cannons probably aren't critting.

Currently, it's not worth upgrading CR90s (they have too few dice, too cheap) unless you're trying Overload Pulse shennanigans.

VSD2s are the only real choice atm, and they benefit madly from Leading Shots.

Intelligence Agent would not have any effect on follow on attacks from the rest of the fleet.

ummm, if they discard a defense token they can no longer spend it so... intel officer in fact has great benefit to the rest of your fleet.