We've been playing for quite a while but we tend to keep it simple during space combat. It just seems complicated and we haven't put the time into investing into all the system has to offer. Until now, now we want to take the plunge and really start using vehicle combat.

Here's my question, surely asked when this forum was young, so please excuse me for bringing it up again. I am on top of the list of pilot maneuvers and actions from the CRB pages 232 through 234 plus additional actions on page 237 that folks on the ship can attempt. No problems there.

On page 240 it describes stellar (or planetary for vehicle) terrain. I want to start incorporating this to add to the excitement of the chase and combat. Here's my question: The rules call for a piloting check based on half silhouette (rounding up) and speed to navigate within the terrain. Is this the pilot's sole allowed action for the turn? Or does he still get one of the actions listed from pages 232 to 234 plus he also has to make the piloting check to Fly/Drive the ship where he's looking to go?

Or in simpler terms, is this piloting check just an additional roll he makes as a part of his turn to incorporate whipping around those asteroids and space debris or is this the only action he gets, therefore losing the ability to perform other actions during his turn.

Thanks for the information folks!

Technically that's his only action on that turn. I can't think of a reason off the top of my head to break that rule, but maybe someone else can...

Functionally, avoiding the terrain is the action, as opposed to a maneuver, so yes, its the only action they get. However, if I may flog my own work a bit, in "Stay on Target" it gives suggestions on how Advantage/Threat/Triumph/Despair can be spent in space combat when taking such actions. So it is possible that the pilot is only pulling off piloting actions in Stellar Phenomena, but roll well enough and you're inflicting damage on ships chasing you.

Functionally, avoiding the terrain is the action, as opposed to a maneuver, so yes, its the only action they get. However, if I may flog my own work a bit, in "Stay on Target" it gives suggestions on how Advantage/Threat/Triumph/Despair can be spent in space combat when taking such actions. So it is possible that the pilot is only pulling off piloting actions in Stellar Phenomena, but roll well enough and you're inflicting damage on ships chasing you.

Thanks for the quick feedback. That tells me how to run it next time we game. We're finally going to stop working around the space combat "headache" and tackle it head on because that's the only way we're all going to get used to the rules.

We've been playing for quite a while but we tend to keep it simple during space combat. It just seems complicated and we haven't put the time into investing into all the system has to offer. Until now, now we want to take the plunge and really start using vehicle combat.

Here's my question, surely asked when this forum was young, so please excuse me for bringing it up again. I am on top of the list of pilot maneuvers and actions from the CRB pages 232 through 234 plus additional actions on page 237 that folks on the ship can attempt. No problems there.

On page 240 it describes stellar (or planetary for vehicle) terrain. I want to start incorporating this to add to the excitement of the chase and combat. Here's my question: The rules call for a piloting check based on half silhouette (rounding up) and speed to navigate within the terrain. Is this the pilot's sole allowed action for the turn? Or does he still get one of the actions listed from pages 232 to 234 plus he also has to make the piloting check to Fly/Drive the ship where he's looking to go?

Or in simpler terms, is this piloting check just an additional roll he makes as a part of his turn to incorporate whipping around those asteroids and space debris or is this the only action he gets, therefore losing the ability to perform other actions during his turn.

Thanks for the information folks!

Just to add some details:

Yes it's his action.

BUT

It's an action he doesn't have to take if there's something else he wants to do.

Unlike other systems that assume the driver will automatically crash the moment his hands aren't at 10 and 2, EotE assumes you wouldn't be in the cockpit if you at the very least didn't know how to "not crash." So if the pilot wants to shoot a weapon, or spoof a missile, or play a hand of Sabacc instead of make an effort to maneuver through the asteroid field, he can. He won't automatically drop to speed 0, or smash into a space rock, or some other horrible thing (bear in mind that's "automatically" its totally possible the resultant Threat or Despair from the check he does make will generate that result).

Remember the Fly/Drive action only has to be taken if the players is trying to maneuver his vehicle in such away to change his range band relative to something else, if the pilot doesn't want to do that... no prob!

Also worth mentioning: In a Chase, where your movement is part of a separate "Chase" check at the top of every round, the Chase check is not the pilots action.

Is this included in any dev answers? because I read the stellar phenomena/terrain section with the explanation for the roll difficulty and it says "..Piloting check, even if he is attempting a starship maneuver that typically wouldn't require one. This starship maneuver's difficulty is based on the ship's speed, blah blah". The verbiage to me always read like it's simply calling for a skill roll to perform the fly/drive maneuver through obstacles if you're looking to change range bands instead of it just being automatic. Then there is the celestial hazards section where it lays out the potential for pilot checks as an action.

I honestly don't know why they include both. I assume it is that the first sort of allows the PC to break off if they don't succeed on the fly/drive maneuver, sort of like they can't find a path through the field and pull up at the last second. The roll that is an action is when they say 'the hell with it' and plunge into an asteroid field regardless of consequence.

Kind of view the chase rule the same way. It's just a check applied to the two parties maneuvers.

80% sure it was on one of the O66s.

Where I am hung up now is that if a pilot has to use his action to make a piloting check in order to move through stellar phenomena or terrain that precludes him being able to take another action. For my PCs I'm not worried because some of them are gunners or engineers so everyone has something to do. However, my NPC TIE Fighters would be doing nothing but piloting in that scenario because they have to use their action to pilot and not to shoot. There would never be a threat from such a fighter because they don't get a chance to fire as an action.

Ghostofman said something about not having to make the pilot check if you don't want to but I'm not sure I'm understanding that. Why wouldn't you have to if you are trying to rocket through debris?

Thanks for the info guys; I'll need it for my game tonight when we're going to really lock down these vehicle combat rules.

There would never be a threat from such a fighter because they don't get a chance to fire as an action.

This is where the narrative part kicks in. If the TIE makes their piloting roll (which they'd better, with all those Handling boost dice), they'll probably get some Advantages and that can be used in a variety of ways, possibly including applying Strain damage to their target. Maybe for 3A/1T they've found a clear path and can skip the next round of Piloting-to-avoid-debris, and take a shot instead.

Ghostofman said something about not having to make the pilot check if you don't want to but I'm not sure I'm understanding that. Why wouldn't you have to if you are trying to rocket through debris?

Because, thanks to the multi axis system, you can get the same results on other rolls.

See Fly/Drive is only for changing range bands, once you are at the band you want to be, you can do other stuff.

So lets say you've got a group of TIEs attacking an asteroid base. The TIEs start turn 1 at short range, and Fly/Drive to move to Close, taking a Piloting check. Turn 2 the TIEs are already at Close Range, so there's no need to make a Fly check. Instead they make a Gunnery check to shoot the base. They take say 2 Setback on the check because of the floating rocks, and if they generate 3 Threat, the GM can say they had trouble getting into a good firing position and had a collision.

Make more sense?

Don't forget that the Stellar Phenomenon rules are there as a "go to" roll when conditions really are hazardous. Han Solo wasn't doing much else other than yanking on the controls when being pursued by four tie fighters through a hyper-dense asteroid field. These rules provide guidelines for the difficulty of a given action. However, if an action has a set difficulty, such as making a combat check on a similar-sized ship, then that's where you start throwing in 1-3 setback dice to account for the terrain.

Ghostofman said something about not having to make the pilot check if you don't want to but I'm not sure I'm understanding that. Why wouldn't you have to if you are trying to rocket through debris?

Because, thanks to the multi axis system, you can get the same results on other rolls.

See Fly/Drive is only for changing range bands, once you are at the band you want to be, you can do other stuff.

So lets say you've got a group of TIEs attacking an asteroid base. The TIEs start turn 1 at short range, and Fly/Drive to move to Close, taking a Piloting check. Turn 2 the TIEs are already at Close Range, so there's no need to make a Fly check. Instead they make a Gunnery check to shoot the base. They take say 2 Setback on the check because of the floating rocks, and if they generate 3 Threat, the GM can say they had trouble getting into a good firing position and had a collision.

Make more sense?

That summed it up perfectly Ghostofman. Thank you for the insight! During out last session we did an exciting chase scene with two three-member flights of TIE Fighters gunning for our heroes. We used the straight rules and everything went great!

Thanks again!

I am preparing my next game and was wondering about this. I have a different interpretation of the rules.

My reason is the following text :"Ship captains might find themselves in situations where they are already in the thick of an asteroid field and a need to perform an action that requires a Piloting check. In this case, the player makes his Piloting check as specified in the description of the action (not the check specified by his speed an silhouette)."

So it means the piloting player has to do two checks: one for the stellar phenomena and one other for his action. I think we can conclude that the stellar phenomena is a separate action, similar to the chase rules.

Is this included in any dev answers? because I read the stellar phenomena/terrain section with the explanation for the roll difficulty and it says "..Piloting check, even if he is attempting a starship maneuver that typically wouldn't require one. This starship maneuver's difficulty is based on the ship's speed, blah blah". The verbiage to me always read like it's simply calling for a skill roll to perform the fly/drive maneuver through obstacles if you're looking to change range bands instead of it just being automatic. Then there is the celestial hazards section where it lays out the potential for pilot checks as an action.

I honestly don't know why they include both. I assume it is that the first sort of allows the PC to break off if they don't succeed on the fly/drive maneuver, sort of like they can't find a path through the field and pull up at the last second. The roll that is an action is when they say 'the hell with it' and plunge into an asteroid field regardless of consequence.

Kind of view the chase rule the same way. It's just a check applied to the two parties maneuvers.

I can see what you mean by that part of the wording, but in the next sentence it also stated "This starship's maneuver difficulty is based on...". Note, maneuver not action. I have always just read that as an addendum to the maneuver, not a replacement of the pilots action.

example; Tie pilot tries to Fly/Drive maneuver to close the distance=Pilot check, though it would not normally require one and attempts to use his action to shoot (adding setback due to stelar debris), etc.

By having the pilot make additional rolls, you are increasing the probability of something going terribly wrong. This, at least for me, seems more than balanced enough without making it his only action. This is where co-pilots are worth their weight in spice.

But, that's just my interpretation. Whatever works at your table is of course best.

No, I agree, I don't think it is an Action either, I think it's just a skill roll applied to the fly/drive maneuver if you are just looking to change range bands though say asteroids and maybe you're only constraint is time.

A good example of that, the Action section they mention, and Chase roll would be really helpful. Maybe an O66 item or something. Kind of a beefy rules question I would think.

Mainly we have two choices. Or a mandatory roll for each pilots at the beginning of the turn, similar to the chase rules. In that case, an asteroid field becomes quite dangerous (and fun) as at every turn you could have despairs.

Or to ask a piloting checks for manoeuvers that in normal circumstances would not require one, such as fly/drive. In that case, the frequency of rolls is much reduced but you also have less chance of the pursuing ennemy to crash. Also it makes the piloting role more pro-emminent as in normal situation, there is not much piloting checks required (except gain the advantage).

With a co-pilot, I think I will allow the pilot to roll his dice at the beginning of the turn and ask at the same time the co-pilot to roll the dice he adds (at least a boost die as in my group the co-pilot is a Drall).

A failure will require the pilot to reduce his speed, forcing him to stay longer in the asteroid field.

A despair will not mean a crash for the players as that would be the end of the story.

Mainly we have two choices. Or a mandatory roll for each pilots at the beginning of the turn, similar to the chase rules. In that case, an asteroid field becomes quite dangerous (and fun) as at every turn you could have despairs.

Or to ask a piloting checks for manoeuvers that in normal circumstances would not require one, such as fly/drive. In that case, the frequency of rolls is much reduced but you also have less chance of the pursuing ennemy to crash. Also it makes the piloting role more pro-emminent as in normal situation, there is not much piloting checks required (except gain the advantage).

With a co-pilot, I think I will allow the pilot to roll his dice at the beginning of the turn and ask at the same time the co-pilot to roll the dice he adds (at least a boost die as in my group the co-pilot is a Drall).

A failure will require the pilot to reduce his speed, forcing him to stay longer in the asteroid field.

A despair will not mean a crash for the players as that would be the end of the story.

Not necessarily. A crash can either be a minor or a major collision, which is essentially an a critical hit rolled against the vessel. E.G. if the pilot succeeds his check, he basically clips the object. If he fails, the ship slams against an astroid or whatever, which damages a critical system aboard. Alternatively it can be a even more drastic loss of speed.

The key thing with chases is to keep them going no matter what the result. I had a time where basically I couldn't escape an astroid field for 4/5 turns simply because I couldn't succeed. The field wasn't meant to be a part of a major chase and it made things incredably boring rather then exciting.

Not necessarily. A crash can either be a minor or a major collision, which is essentially an a critical hit rolled against the vessel. E.G. if the pilot succeeds his check, he basically clips the object. If he fails, the ship slams against an astroid or whatever, which damages a critical system aboard. Alternatively it can be a even more drastic loss of speed.

Good remark, I take note of that.

The key thing with chases is to keep them going no matter what the result. I had a time where basically I couldn't escape an astroid field for 4/5 turns simply because I couldn't succeed. The field wasn't meant to be a part of a major chase and it made things incredably boring rather then exciting.

The way I see my scene is that failing a roll does not prevent to leave the asteroid fields. Or damage to the ship happens or they have to reduce their speed and the pursuant have better chance to be at weapon range (if they succeed their own piloting check).