In the Core Set, you really had a big difference between the Empire and the Rebels. The Empire had the big (medium, really) ship and a lot of light fighters, whereas the rebels had light ships and heavy fighter-bombers.

With wave 1, the Empire got a light(er) ship and heavier fighters, whereas the rebels got a bigger (medium) ship and also some more fighter options. Nevertheless, they are still the only ones with a speed-4 corvette, whereas the Empire is the only one with a close-range mangler.

Yet, when Wave 2 comes out, both factions will have a large ship, both will have a medium ship, and they will both have close range manglers (Gladiator and MC30 respectively) and they'll have fast-attack corvettes. The Neb-B will be the odd-ship-out, but somewhat negligible.

So, how distinct will the factions really be? Are they more than different shapes on similar capabilities?

If so, is that a bad thing? Should they be more distinct from one another?

The two factions are still very distinct. Hell Demolisher alone is probably the best thing about the Gladiator.

Strong broadsides v strong front arcs is significant, yes. One side wants to circle strafe, one side wants to joust. And the fighter options will likely remain pretty distinct, of course.

I think both sides could make similar lists but fortune most part retain there own flavor and differences which is good thing.

Strong broadsides v strong front arcs is significant, yes. One side wants to circle strafe, one side wants to joust. And the fighter options will likely remain pretty distinct, of course.

That is a good point, when it comes to the Mon Cals, the Assault Frigate and the current Imperial ships. However, the Nebulon-B and the CR90 are both more powerful in the front arcs than they are on the side, and the former has really vulnerable side arcs. Both of them like to go around and then come straight in on the flank. Also, the Gladiator's broadside is nothing to laugh at, especially at close range.

I think the options that are coming in wave 2, while somewhat similar to one another on first glance, still are going to have a lot of their own distinctions and nuances that will make them play very different from each other. For example the Corvette is somewhat similar to the Raider in that they're fast and light, but the Raider is more anti squad and close range oriented and can use missiles as opposed to the flighty but still fighty antics of the CR-90. The Imperial class is not the MC-80. Boba Fett is not Han Solo. Heck, even if the stat lines were more blurred the commanders, titles and other unique upgrades offer tons of variety.

We're fine. We're all fine, here... now... How are you?

Strong broadsides v strong front arcs is significant, yes. One side wants to circle strafe, one side wants to joust. And the fighter options will likely remain pretty distinct, of course.

That is a good point, when it comes to the Mon Cals, the Assault Frigate and the current Imperial ships. However, the Nebulon-B and the CR90 are both more powerful in the front arcs than they are on the side, and the former has really vulnerable side arcs. Both of them like to go around and then come straight in on the flank. Also, the Gladiator's broadside is nothing to laugh at, especially at close range.

It's true, there are exceptions! But if you want to run a rebel medium or large ship, you want broadsides. If you want to run an imperial medium or large ship, you want front arcs.

And while the shrimp frigate and Maximus look similar with their broadsides full of black dice, I expect they'll play pretty distinctly, particularly within the context of a 400 point fleet.

In the end of the day the ships may have similar stats but they vary with unique titles and a different array of upgrade cards. Not to mention the fighters are varied too.

mxlm pretty much hit it, as well as a few others: Rebels favor broadsides at long-medium range, with evasion for defense with some tanky tokens tossed in. Empire favors forward fire at medium-short range with very tanky defenses, hull and tokens.

The GSD and MC30 being the most overlap in ship roles, but even there you can see the differences in that GSDs have 3 shields fore and 1 aft compared to 2's all over for the MC30. This lends the MC30 to slightly different tactical considerations...though, granted, not that many from that change alone. Also, the severe short-range restriction on GSDs doesn't seem to hold as strongly on MC30s...plus upgrades.

I see both factions with very unique configurations, but as is natural they have their own ships that can fulfill the same TYPES of roles in a battle: fast flankers, speedy close-range brawlers, heavy bricks to hold the line, etc. The rebels even have the nebulon that is pretty uniquely theirs and has no counter in the empire, or mirror.

I see both factions with very unique configurations, but as is natural they have their own ships that can fulfill the same TYPES of roles in a battle: fast flankers, speedy close-range brawlers, heavy bricks to hold the line, etc. The rebels even have the nebulon that is pretty uniquely theirs and has no counter in the empire, or mirror.

That's probably mostly because the Rebels simply have more total ships, due to receiving two in the starter. It may well even out down the road.

IMO the factions will be pretty similar after Wave 2 (mostly in terms of "roles" or "types" as you say), but I think that's a fundamentally good thing for both balance and variety. As long as nothing is a mirror image of anything else I'm still pleased with significant overlap.

there's no way in hell a Mon Cal is even anything but superficially similar to the ISD

it's not as simple as saying it has a VSD on each side; the orientation of the strong arcs + the nav chart defines how a ship plays and even seemingly minor differences promote drastically different playstyles

similarly the corvette and the raider have very little in common apart from their size and speed. the corv is a long/medium ranged spam bot/support ship while the raider is an in your face close-range little bastard with hefty anti-squadron armaments.

just as the Neb and the Gladiator are different, and the fattie and the VSD are different, these new Wave 2 ship have very little to warrant any belief that they won't play completely differently to their analogs

if anything, the two factions become more distinct with each expansion

I'm okay with the Rebellion having an extra ship type, because largely they tend to be much more squishy comparatively to the Star Destroyers on the other side of the fence. Many people love to harp on how weak the Nebulon B is, but you have to hand it to the Escort Frigate for being a reasonably priced anti-squadron ship.

Indeed. I'm actually looking forward to trying out the Neb-B if I ever get a chance to play Rebs. It looks like a ship that's hard to use well...something I love.

Indeed. I'm actually looking forward to trying out the Neb-B if I ever get a chance to play Rebs. It looks like a ship that's hard to use well...something I love.

I feel it was a mistake of FFG not to issue Imperial versions of the ship cards with the base-set for both the Neb-B and Corellian Corvette. The Nebula-B frigate is an Imperial built ship that the Rebel's have acquired through capture or defections and the corvette is used by the Empire, local defence forces, corporations, rebels, and pirates. There is even a reference in the excellent Star Wars Sourcebook (West End Games) to a VSD "GrimDeath" operated by the Rebels. So should be no harm to use the other sides ships by agreement or in custom scenarios for your own fun, though I imagine the Empire at its height would not care or need to use captured Rebel-designed ships (like AF2), unless as a ruse e.g. staged attacks on civilians to discredit the Alliance.

Indeed. I'm actually looking forward to trying out the Neb-B if I ever get a chance to play Rebs. It looks like a ship that's hard to use well...something I love.

I feel it was a mistake of FFG not to issue Imperial versions of the ship cards with the base-set for both the Neb-B and Corellian Corvette. The Nebula-B frigate is an Imperial built ship that the Rebel's have acquired through capture or defections and the corvette is used by the Empire, local defence forces, corporations, rebels, and pirates. There is even a reference in the excellent Star Wars Sourcebook (West End Games) to a VSD "GrimDeath" operated by the Rebels. So should be no harm to use the other sides ships by agreement or in custom scenarios for your own fun, though I imagine the Empire at its height would not care or need to use captured Rebel-designed ships (like AF2), unless as a ruse e.g. staged attacks on civilians to discredit the Alliance.

None of the extended background is visible in any way in the movies though, so FFG has every right to ignore it. We did not see these elusive Imperial Nebulon-B's at Hoth or Endor. We did not see a rebel taskforce capturing them from an Imperial shipyard. We just see two very distinct types of fleets, without any identical ships between them, duking it out at Endor.

Indeed. I'm actually looking forward to trying out the Neb-B if I ever get a chance to play Rebs. It looks like a ship that's hard to use well...something I love.

I feel it was a mistake of FFG not to issue Imperial versions of the ship cards with the base-set for both the Neb-B and Corellian Corvette. The Nebula-B frigate is an Imperial built ship that the Rebel's have acquired through capture or defections and the corvette is used by the Empire, local defence forces, corporations, rebels, and pirates. There is even a reference in the excellent Star Wars Sourcebook (West End Games) to a VSD "GrimDeath" operated by the Rebels. So should be no harm to use the other sides ships by agreement or in custom scenarios for your own fun, though I imagine the Empire at its height would not care or need to use captured Rebel-designed ships (like AF2), unless as a ruse e.g. staged attacks on civilians to discredit the Alliance.

None of the extended background is visible in any way in the movies though, so FFG has every right to ignore it. We did not see these elusive Imperial Nebulon-B's at Hoth or Endor. We did not see a rebel taskforce capturing them from an Imperial shipyard. We just see two very distinct types of fleets, without any identical ships between them, duking it out at Endor.

regardless of extended background's relevance in the OT, there's a golden rule that makes FFG far more justified in making nebs rebel only

gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fluff

Indeed. I'm actually looking forward to trying out the Neb-B if I ever get a chance to play Rebs. It looks like a ship that's hard to use well...something I love.

I feel it was a mistake of FFG not to issue Imperial versions of the ship cards with the base-set for both the Neb-B and Corellian Corvette. The Nebula-B frigate is an Imperial built ship that the Rebel's have acquired through capture or defections and the corvette is used by the Empire, local defence forces, corporations, rebels, and pirates. There is even a reference in the excellent Star Wars Sourcebook (West End Games) to a VSD "GrimDeath" operated by the Rebels. So should be no harm to use the other sides ships by agreement or in custom scenarios for your own fun, though I imagine the Empire at its height would not care or need to use captured Rebel-designed ships (like AF2), unless as a ruse e.g. staged attacks on civilians to discredit the Alliance.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the Imps tried to capture AF1s for their own use whenever possible. The same could be true of 2s.

Edit: Also Gladiators sometimes were captured by pirates I'm sure a few ended up in rebel hands. And I would be shocked if no Raiders ever ended up in rebel hands through either capture or defection due to their size and role.

The sides are still vastly different.

Imperials want to play it close, rebels want to play at range. Imperials throw all the dice, rebels slowly scrape away with their own barrages. Imperials have aces who work together and assist other squadrons, the Rebels have glory aces.

The game is still different in the sides. You would see that Mikael if you played both sides more often ~_^

The ships will have decidedly different ways that they have to be played but I think the biggest difference between the sides will be their command styles.

The Rebels command style is more flexible and teamwork and multi asset interaction.

The Imperials command style is more rigid, centric and about delegation.

Indeed. I'm actually looking forward to trying out the Neb-B if I ever get a chance to play Rebs. It looks like a ship that's hard to use well...something I love.

That's the spirit!

Indeed. I'm actually looking forward to trying out the Neb-B if I ever get a chance to play Rebs. It looks like a ship that's hard to use well...something I love.

That's the spirit!

You make a good point. I'm kinda glad the first game I played was as the Victory. It really taught me the value of planning in advance and movement.

heres a good way to frame the differences in play style:

Take your favorite list and try to replicate it in the other faction. The closest I got was using a neb escort as my victory for a slow-fire-base. And the AFMKII as my gladiator hammer. The problem is, both ships are more hammer/anvil than a heavier anvil and hammer distinction.

Also, both ships prefer fighting from afar. Squadrons are simply unreplicatable. The strongest setup for Rebs seems to just take all named pilots and escort your ships till they can jump into enemy ships and blast their ships.

The MC30 will make this more accurate, but then I'll need to find how to anchor my ships, maybe with an MC80, and still it's always broadsides.

The MC80 is a Broadsiding VSD. The MC30 is a better version of the GSD simply because it can have more red and blue dice in its hull (did I mention blue dice), it also is likely to be speed 4

Doubt it'll be speed 4. Also, black dice are better...