OK, so I know one answer to these questions will be “ whatever the plot requires ” , and I also know many of you simply hand wave these as “ inconsequential ”

Which is all fine. Whatever works for your table of course.

But, my group do tend to look into the small specifics, and I would like a basis to work from, for various reasons, including a small ‘ drip drip ’ drain on their finances.

Now, this brings up a few questions about ship operations and running costs.

Firstly..

How much would It cost to sustain a player for a day? Money wise.

Ball park would do. I can extrapolate from there.

The last time I brought this up, I picked a number (That I cant remember now), and they simply bought enough non perishable goods, for all 4 of them, for a month.

Now onto the ship itself.

They own a (well, own would be a strong word, but you know … ), YT-1300. (Clich é , yes)

How much would you say it costs in fuel, to fill it up? (And how far would that get you?)

How much would you say it costs to fill the fresh water tanks?

How long would the power systems sustain the ship while its engines are ‘ off ’ (Much like running on battery power)

How much would you charge at a starport to be plugged into the local power for charging/running the ship while docked?

(OK, to clarify, as I know any of these services will vary dependant on the ship/port/region/etc so a simple “ Established/Rural/Shadowport/Colony/Backwater ” type numbers would do, as I can tweak as needed).

Now, for my group last week, I ruled that the ships system can run while the ship is landed, with the primary engines off, but they draw power from the systems reserves (batteries), and unless they turn off everything, eventually the system will run out of juice … which is why you can plug into a docks power supply while there, so either charge your systems, or run off the local power, without having to shut down completely.

Which means a quick getaway, as you don ’ t need to ‘ boot up ’ the systems from cold.

While in operation, with the engines running, they supply and charge the power systems.

(Much like running the stereo/lights/aircon, in your car … if the engines running, it charges the battery).

So really, I am looking at the consumable and runnings costs of a vessel.

And any other costs that might be associated that I have not listed above, that might throw a spanner in the works if I need it.

And again … . Yes, I know, many of your handwave all this, and will cite location/ship as huge variables, but I am just really looking for some opinions on ball park figures.

Many thanks!

RD

RD,

I can post the houserules I used for my episodic game. I made the players calculate living costs at the end of each adventure that included the cost of repairing the ship and healing characters, that way they had some cost of living, but starting fresh at the beginning of each adventure.

Salcor

Always interested, anything could be useful

I don't hand wave stuff, but I also can't really give you any kind of numbers without knowing how much money you typically are giving them or what they have on hand.

I use a x10 multiplier for vehicle costs, and a x100 for starships. I don't allow simple roll the dice purchase of weapons and supplies, we role play it and getting gear isn't a dice pool compared to a chart in a book at my table.

When it comes to ships I am realistic and it costs alot to keep flying. I do reward accordingly for jobs though.

Now I have to be honest I don't itemize individual days food. I don't break down costs in port either, any power or hookups to the sewer are assumed in daily costs.

So far ive just granted what the prewritten adventures have suggested (Escape from Mos Shutta, Long Arm of the Hutt, Trouble Brewing, Debts to Pay and currently Crates of Kryats).

But Im not sure that effects things, how much they earn shouldnt effect the cost of petrol.

My group would be interested in the nitty gritty details, as they are always trying to shave costs down (Old D&D habit, and im happy to use it for RP purposes, or to hike up the costs if required).

I believe 2P is trying to calibrate the costs to your reward style.

Part of the issue is that we can't really pull this all out whole cloth. We don't even know what is necessary to operate a vessel, much less how much that's going to cost, or if fuel is burned by the hour or by the parsec, or if fuel degrades over time, or what the wear rate is on engine parts. Do ion drives and hyperdrives use the same fuel? what about coolant, lubricants, hydraulic fluid - or even more esoteric consumables for the air and water recyclers.

At least in my opinion, much of what we see in the stories about independent freighters and other small operations in the outer rim is that the expensive part isn't buying a ship (though that can be expensive), it's operating a ship. We hear about a lot of experienced spacers who are running full cargo-loads of (legal) goods, selling them at a reasonable profit and still coming in negative over all. So what ever you come up with, it should be high - that's just the way of the galaxy in the Imperial Era.

I hear what 2P is saying, but I just dont feel that the more the players earn, the more it costs them to run their ship.... but that is entirely down to personal preference.

I am trying to keep my players on the slightly poor side... granted, they have gotten about 5k per job they have done so far, but they have not done many jobs, and thats the basics from the pre-writtens ive run.

I am trying to evoke the feeling of a hard life on the rim, so I clearly dont want running costs to be too extortionate... but at the same time, costs for docking and ship services on Coruscant, will be different to those on Tatooine, and different again on Nar Shadaa.. simply due to the differences in locale.

What I am trying to guage, is some basic ideas on figures that I can use as a foundation, simply opinions on what these things cost, and how others see "ship operations" in their own minds.

I picture a Hyperdrive pulling power from the core engines, rather than having their own fuel... but doing so burns more fuel (like turning your air con on), so more jumps = more fuel, but its the same fuel.

a Ship uses Fuel and Power, the Engines burn the fuel in regular operation, and generate power, but when they are not running, the batteries take over, and that is also limited... I was wondering how others saw it.

I know others "dont" see it, as they dont micromanage that deep, which is fine

I would say they just set a variable %, depending on where they are located for expenses to be applied to rewards and call it an operating tax. Kind of like the rarity modifier for items. Core worlds have more gas stations, hence more competition. 'Milo's Gas n Go' on planet bumf*ck is the only service station for parsecs...that sort of thing.

WEG addressed this in Tramp Freighters (Galaxy Guide 6). You can find pdfs of this document online. The game mechanics in it are mostly irrelevant since credits=cridits and time units=time units regardless of game line.

As far as sustaining players goes, in my group I just put it down to them eating at least once a day and the cost of a meal is roughly equivalent to the worth of a ration pack from the CRB (IIRC, ~5 credits). They can skip a day (because who wants carbs, right?) starting with an easy Resilience check, and then scaling in difficulty from there for subsequent days (though additional successes can prolong the times between those checks).

Here are the house rules I used.

End of Session Upkeep

Shadow obligations – these obligations are always in play, they do not figure into the obligation table to be triggered, and they must be settled at the end of each episode.

Obligation (ship) – Maintaining a ship on the fringe is important and difficult all at the same time. The complex machines are home to most adventuring groups, and usually take a lot of love and attention. At the end of each adventure the group must spend an amount of credits to keep the ship running. The formulas and consequences are as follows.

Ship Cost X.01 = Episodic upkeep cost

Hit Threshold total damage x 100 + System Strain total damage x 10 +50 for each critical damage = repair costs

Ordnance purchase = number of weapons x base cost (concussion missiles = 500 credits, proton torpedos = 750) Note: Ordnance purchase does not figure into the negative effects of this rule.

Total upkeep cost = Episodic Upkeep + Repair Cost

IF the Episodic upkeep cost is not paid at the end of the episode, then the next episode the crew each has their strain threshold lowered by 1, and the ships system strain threshold is lowered by 2. The third episode that the upkeep cost is not paid the next episode the crew’s strain threshold is lowered by 2 and the ships system threshold is lowered by 4. On the fifth episode that the upkeep cost is not paid all ship based skill test suffer one setback die. To buy off these effects the cost is cumulative, so if the characters did not pay upkeep on episode 1, episode 2 would cost 2 times the upkeep cost. For each level of this penalty, it upgrades the difficult of any skill checks to make modifications by 1. The ship always starts the episode with a full wound threshold.

Example: Chewie, Han, Leia, and C3PO land in Bespin after a daring escape from the Imperial Fleet at the end of their episode. Normally their upkeep costs would be as follows:

YT-1300 upkeep cost = 100,000 × .01 = 1,000 credits.

Repair cost = The Falcon suffered 5 point to it wound threshold and 10 points of system strain while escaping the astroid belt. It also is suffering from critical damage to its hyperdrive.

Repair costs = 5×100 + 10×5 + 50 = 600 credits.

So the crew has to pay a total of 1600 credits to avoid any adverse affects. To cover the tab, Han calls in a favor that Lando owed him.

Obligation – self: All creature, including droid require some kind of upkeep. Food, medic, oil, and entertainment are all required to keep a sentient healthy and sane. However, life on the fringe can be hard. Much like ships, at the end of every episode each character must pay to ensure they are healthy and ready for the next episode. To determine this cost use the following:

Characters total wound threshold + total strain threshold x5 = Episodic upkeep cost

Total Wounds at the end of the adventure x 10 10 per critical injury = medical costs

Total strain taken x 5 = entertainment costs.

personal upkeep = episodic upkeep +medical costsentertainment cost

Each episode the character does not pay his or her personal upkeep cost their strain threshold is lowered by 1. They will always start the beginning of the next episode with full wounds. This represents the ongoing affects of aches and pains, and hunger. These effects are cumulative with all other obligation affects. The cost of this upkeep is also cumulative similar to the ship upkeep cost.

Someone posted a summary of these costs from Galaxy Guide 6, which HappyDaze mentions above. I couldn't find the specific thread but I know it's here because I copied it into my holocron.

Someone posted a summary of these costs from Galaxy Guide 6, which HappyDaze mentions above. I couldn't find the specific thread but I know it's here because I copied it into my holocron.

I would be interested in seeing that, if anyone knows where to find it?

Someone posted a summary of these costs from Galaxy Guide 6, which HappyDaze mentions above. I couldn't find the specific thread but I know it's here because I copied it into my holocron.

I would be interested in seeing that, if anyone knows where to find it?

I little creative use of the search tool yielded this thread from our very own Desslok: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/89479-starship-equipment-and-operating-costs/

I like the idea of an "upkeep" obligation. When triggered, that's when your ship's low on fuel or you are out of PB&J or whatever.

For players, I use the Field Ration Pack as a basis for food. 5 Credits per meal (on a dollars to credits comparison) is pretty reasonable. 3 meals a day, 15 credits/person/day. I'd offer some kind of discounted rate for bulk buying, however. If you buy a pound of hamburger and a Helper mix, you're going to spend more than if you bought 10 pounds and as many Helper boxes, or just milked a larger purchase offer.

For the sake of argument, let's say that it takes 3 weeks to travel the length of the Perlemian Trade Route from end to end. On this run, we're going to be smuggling some Booster Blue. Each crate takes up 3 Encumbrance worth of space/weight, and contains 100 doses. We can get paid 750 credits each crate, minimum.

Our contact is letting us fill up our hold. With a full crew, our pantry stocked, our water tanks filled, and our fuel topped off, we can carry 55 crates worth of this stuff.

So, we spend 3 weeks traveling to Coruscant, managing to avoid any unwanted attention. With a little luck, we land on planet without customs officials to check us out. It's the busy season for trade on Coruscant and they simply don't have the time to send an official for our inconsequential ship.
First time for everything....
A buyer offer 900 credits per crate, giving us 49,500 Credits for the shipment.
We had an in with a supplier, so we only had to pay 500 credits per crate. We bought our hold full for 27,500 Credits, netting a profit of 22,000 Credits.
But that's before our expenditures.
It cost us 1,000 Credits to dock at a reputable location. This fee includes a secure storage of our ship, and a hardline connection to a power grid for 24 hours. It would cost an additional 500 Credits per day if we wanted to stick around. The first 500 handled the initial paperwork that has to be sent off to BoSS.
It's not hard to find a starship dock that will handle ONLY the BoSS paperwork, but that price goes up the further from the Core Worlds you get. Secure facilities and power hard lines become even MORE expensive under the same circumstances, though major ports tend to keep prices down due to competition.

If we had to do without the power line, our ship could stay in low power mode for over half a year, though we'd run out of consumables LONG before that happened.

Now, we've completed the business deal and need to get ready for our next run.
Fuel will be our biggest expense. It costs us 1,000 credits/weeks worth of fuel in the Core Worlds. I've seen this price go as high as 2,500 Credits if you get too far out of the way. Again, major trade lanes tend to keep this price down, so we're better off doing our shopping as close to one as we can get.
It'll cost us about 5 Credits for enough water for one of our crew to get through a day. Water rich planets and trade routes may be cheaper, but Tatooine will see you paying between 15-20 credits per person per day. Moisture farmers only produce so much, you know, and they like to gouge off-worlders.
So, we need 3 weeks worth of everything. If you know a guy, or can sweet talk someone, sometimes you can get a bulk discount. This is especially handy with those massive ships that make several runs before having to stop, or just run straight across the galaxy. For us, though, with only 2 months worth of anything, some things are easier to get a deal on than others.

In conclusion....

Food: 5 Credits/Person/Meal or 150 Meals for 650 Credits

Adjust if needed.

I'd probably go no higher than doubling the price, and that under extreme duress. Only on a backwater planet that specifically imports food. The further away they would have to import FROM, the higher the cost.

Water: 5 Credits/Person/Day or 100 "Gallons" for 400 Credits
Again, adjust if needed.

I'd max out as 20 Credits, but only under specific circumstances.

Fuel: 1,000 Credits/Week

Probably no higher than 2,500 credits. Treat your max fuel the same as your max consumables. After all, technically, fuel is a consumable.

Docking: 500 Credits for BoSS Compliance, 500 Credits for secure facility with power

Increasing the further you get from Core Worlds and Trade Lanes.

Security and Power should increase higher and faster than BoSS compliance. It wouldn't be totally unreasonable to go as high as 5,000 Credits for this if you are in some REALLY shady places.
BoSS is law across the Galaxy. You may be gouged a bit, but probably no worse than 1,000 even in some remote places. If you haven't checked in with BoSS in awhile (some planets may not recognize or adhere) then your next port-of-call may charge double for the large amount of data that they have to send for you.

This journey would leave us with a profit of 15,130 Credits after all is said and done. But we got lucky this time. We didn't have to bribe anyone, we got a pretty decent price on our sale, and a hell of a deal on our purchase. We also got some bulk deals on our food and water, though we might have been able to shop a little bit better.

This cargo put us in some amount of danger, though. If we had been caught, it would have sealed a one way trip to Kessel for all 8 of us on board. So, it paid better in return. If we had taken a safer cargo, we would not have been able to make such a profit.


Hope this was both helpful and entertaining.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention; the 3 weeks travel time was assuming a Class 1 Hyperdrive. Increased time for higher Class, decreased by half for a .5.
But I'm sure you knew that already, you smarty pants, you!

They've pretty music he perfected fusion power so I don't think power would be an issue. Ion drives do use fuel and blasters use gas for plasma, but just sitting parks shouldn't be a problem.

OK, related question.

The book lists the YT-1300 as having 2 crew, and Passenger Capacity of 6.

And Two Months of Consumables.

Would it be fair to say then, that the ship can carry enough consumables to support 8 beings for 2 months

And by logic... 4 beings for 4 months?

How would you factor Droids into that? Since they neither need to Eat or Breath, but still require power

Droids have upkeep requirements in terms of spare parts, oil, battery changes etc. I'd assume that 2 months is basically how much 'personal storage' there is that's only practical to use for consumables- not cargo hold space. Cupboards and the like. If the droid wants to keep spare O-rings and WD-40 in his bathroom cabinet instead of toothpaste and soap, then he can.

Actually, droids are considered luggage by most spacefaring organisations. But they indeed prefer to spend their time in a kitchen cupboard, taking up space intended for victuals for organic beings.

Seriously, I haven't got PC droids in my group, so they're handled as cargo.

Another question came up during the campaign, though: With provisions of two months for four, can the ship handle four more for a month, if they sleep on yoga mats in the hold? My ruling was that the ship's life support cannot recycle waste at a higher rate, especially air, for a prolonged time, say a few days.

Actually, droids are considered luggage by most spacefaring organisations. But they indeed prefer to spend their time in a kitchen cupboard, taking up space intended for victuals for organic beings.

Seriously, I haven't got PC droids in my group, so they're handled as cargo.

Another question came up during the campaign, though: With provisions of two months for four, can the ship handle four more for a month, if they sleep on yoga mats in the hold? My ruling was that the ship's life support cannot recycle waste at a higher rate, especially air, for a prolonged time, say a few days.

I mentioned before that fuel should also be considered a consumable.

If you jump onto a ship and essentially hijack it from 2 people who brought with them about 2 months worth of food and water, and you have a total of 3 people in your group, you're all going to burn through that food and water in about a week and a half. Just a hair longer.

The ship, however, is going to keep on keeping on until it runs out of fuel.

Your decomposing bodies will be particularly swollen by this point.

As far as recycling the air and life support systems go, I'd put it on the same level as consumables, just for the sake of making things simple. And unless you want to add an expense, it could be about as simple as a Semi using DEF to clean its systems. Cost included in the fuel, it just needs an hour or so to purge the system clean and be good to go again.

System Strain could represent additional members on board.