I'm wondering what happens when Arya Stark ( www.tzumainn.com/agot/cards/card.php ) tries to use her ability to 'steal' stealth from a character who was granted stealth by Euron Crow's Eye ( www.tzumainn.com/agot/cards/card.php ) but has no Stealth keyword itself.

Arya can target a character "with stealth", so presumably the character who does not personally have the stealth keyword but gains it via Euron is a valid target? That's question one. If so, then when Arya does her thing that character "loses those keywords". Does that effectively neutralise Euron's effect (e.g. the character returns to not having Stealth), or does Euron somehow 're-apply' the Stealth. There's a bit of a conflict here.

My guess is that they neutralise. Euron adds, Arya removes. Net result is nothing. But our Greyjoy player successfully argued that Euron's ability is "always on" and he just re-adds the Stealth after Arya removes it. If I'm right, is this another case where keywords can double up, so a character who has Stealth of his own and then gets Stealth from Euron is "doubly stealthy"?

Question 1: Valid Target

I guess, yes, a character who gets stealth via Euron's ability is a valid target.

If we treat Arya's ability as a blanking ability (I KNOW IT'S NOT, but it's just an example), it wouldn't work, cause the Stealth had to be a part of the PRINTED text box to make it work...But she refers to a card "with stealth", so I don't think there's a problem, here.

Question 2: Does stealth "comes back"

OMG. It seems a mind blowing trick ;-)

From the FAQ

(3.11) Definition of Variables
Constant Abilities will constantly check and
(if necessary) update the definition or count of
their variables.
Triggered Effects and Passive Abilities define
or count their variables once (when the effect
is initiated), and the variable is then constant
throughout the duration of the effect.

I've "language" problems to understand this FAQ step correctly, so maybe I'm wrong...

We're not affecting the Euron's ability itself, here. We're just triggering Arya's ability to "steal" a Keyword from a char...remember that the Euron's ability is a Constant Ability as well as, let's say, an attachment ability which says "Attached Char gains Stealth".

The fact that a constant ability is giving a char the Stealth keyword doesn't prevent the keyword itself from being "stealed" for the duration of an effect, even if it theorically "comes back" again and again.
Arya's T.A. states that the Keyword is LOST until the end of the phase and I guess that's what happens.

LITTLE UPDATE ;-)

There's nothing really new, but I found a part of the FAQ that can be helpful...

It's about Lasting Effects interaction...Arya's ability is not a Lasting effect, but this can be the subject of different questions...

So, this topic becomes important to me.

Here the problem becomes (an extension to your question): what if stealth is "stealed" by another lasting effects?

Here it is...

Lasting Effects Conflict
Even if not triggered at the same time, multiple
Lasting Effects may affect the same card
at the same time. For example: a character
without the Power icon is affected by two lasting
effects. One (such as Slander) removes
a Power icon from the character, and one
(such as Lordship) adds the Power icon to
that character. In this example the two lasting
effects cancel each other, and the character is
left unchanged.

Short: when to lasting effects are in conflict, consider the original game situation.

Just to give more insight...

Laban Shrewsbury said:

Nope. No conflict. Like any other situation where things are being added and removed, you total them up. Just like STR, icons and Keywords in other situation. So your scenario here is simply "1-1=0."

Laban Shrewsbury said:

Correct. If the character has Stealth by some other means, it becomes "1+1-1=1."

Laban Shrewsbury said:

Well, Euron's ability granting stealth is "always on" as long as he is standing. That ability only adds stealth once, so it can be taken away. The FAQ says that whenever you look at a "gains" or "removes" type effect like this, you always start from scratch, add all modifiers together, and apply the result. So after Arya removes the stealth, if your Greyjoy player wants to add it again, he has to start from scratch. In essence, he it saying that after "+1 stealth (Euron) -1 stealth (Arya)" gives a net result of 0, the equation then becomes "+1 stealth (Euron) -1 stealth (Arya) +1 stealth (Euron)" gives a net result of 1. But he has added Euron's effect in there twice. There is no basis anywhere for a single constant effect like Euron's being applied to the same character two times.

Now, if an effect said "gains ALL stealth" or "loses ALL stealth," then you have something that reasserts itself. But in this case, Euron only adds one instance of stealth. Saying that he reasserts himself would mean applying his ability twice, which cannot be done.

DB_Cooper said:

Arya's ability is most certainly a lasting effect. The fact that it specifically says the keyword "steal" has a duration until the end of the phase means that yes, its effects "last" beyond the resolution of the effect itself, and then stop at some later time (the end of the phase).

ktom said:

Yeah, you're right.

...In that sentence I was referring to the ABILITY itself (Any phase: ...), which needs to be triggered.

Just to be clear. ;-)

So...Short answer for the Newcomers: "Arya can steal the "Stealth" keyword from characters that gain it by Euron's Crows Eye ability."

ktom said:

You wouldn't say that if you were in our group !

So what would happen if Arya uses her ability and 'steals' the stealth from a character that only had stealth thanks to Euron, if Euron then kneels (removing the source of the stealth)? Does Arya also lose her 'stolen' stealth or is that stealth now hers until the end of the phase?

Presumably whatever the ruling there also applies in reverse, i.e. if the character Arya targets begins with only renown but then Euron stands to grant stealth also. Does Arya's ongoing ability then gain her the stealth the moment Euron stands?

My guess is that she continues to gain/lose stealth as Euron bounces between standing and kneeling. But we need an independent arbitrator sometimes...

Laban Shrewsbury said:

It's all a matter of the +/- equation. If you start with a Greyjoy character gaining stealth from Euron with no other indication of stealth (either the printed keyword or some other effect), you get:

+1 stealth (Euron) = 1 stealth. (Net result, character has stealth)

Then, if someone wants to trigger Arya, she needs a character that has a net result of stealth, Renown, or both. She then takes away one or both keywords, depending on which ones they had at the time she was triggered. So for our hypothetical GJ character:

+1 stealth (Euron) -1 stealth (Arya) = 0 stealth (Net result, character does not have stealth).

Now, you kneel Euron. The addition of stealth to the character Arya smacked is not gone, so the effective check becomes:

-1 stealth (Arya) = -1 stealth (Net result, character does not have stealth).

Note that here, you have changed the effects acting on the GJ character, but not on Arya. Her continuing effect is still in place (giving the GJ character -1 stealth and her +1 stealth), but there has been no new effect applied to her. What you have to recognize is that Arya's effect doesn't create some sort of "transmission" of a keyword from the target to her. Rather, it creates two separate lasting effects; -1 keyword for the target and +1 keyword for her. After her ability resolves, you are left with those effects and you cannot "retroactively" change them by changing the current condition and saying "if she used her ability now, it would have ended like this."

Look at it another way. Let's say I attack you with a 1-STR character on my turn. I win the challenge. On your turn, you draw a card that lets you give a character -1 STR. You use it on the 1-STR guy I used to win the challenge. Do we undo the claim for the challenge I won because my character now couldn't have won the challenge? Of course not. The effects of the challenge are in the past. Same thing with kneeling Euron in this case. Arya doesn't lose the "+1 stealth" effect on her because her effect triggered legally and created it in the past - what happens in the present doesn't undo it. To take away Arya's stealth, you have to add a new "-1 stealth" effect to her . It stays until the "+1 stealth" effect wears off.

The trick here is that Arya's ability does not create a "link" between the two characters that constantly has them interacting ad transferring the gain and loss of the keywords. Her ability is simply a "-X to this guy until the end of the phase" and also a "+X to me until the end of the phase." Done. No further interaction.

Laban Shrewsbury said:

No. At the time her ability resolves, she gets the "+1 stealth" and/or "+1 renown" depending on what the character had when the effect resolves. If that character gains stealth or renown later, you can't "retroactively" give Arya the same gained keyword any more than you can "retroactively" take it away if the target character loses it by some other means (as discussed above). Of course, if the Stark player has standing influence, they could just trigger Arya's ability a second time....

Let's use another example. Say that instead of stealth, Euron said "while Euron is standing, your GJ characters get +1 STR." Let's also say that there is a character that says "choose a non-unique character with a STR of at least 1. Until the end of the phase, that character gets -1 STR and this character gets +1 STR." I have a GJ character with a printed STR of 0, who is now 1 STR because I also have Euron standing. You use the "STR steal" character to give my character -1 STR (so his effective STR is 0 again) and your character is +1. In that situation, what happens now if Euron kneels? Does your character lose the STR he "stole"? (No, because it was legal when he took it.) Euron stands again - does my 0-STR character become a 1-STR character? (No, because there is only 1 "+1" effect and there's still a "-1" effect.) Does your character get an additional +1 because Euron stood? (No, because you only get the "+1" effect the one time for when you triggered the effect.)

Sometimes, the STR example is easier to see than a keyword. But change "+1 STR" to "+1 stealth" in all of the above and you have the Euron/Arya situation.

After pondering it some more I'll just answer my own question.

Of course, Arya has got her stealth now and that stays until the end of the phase regardless of what Euron does or doesn't do.

Laban Shrewsbury said:

~ Oh, sure. Come up with that after I type out the long explanation.

Ha ha! You pipped me to the reply.

I was wondering why I couldn't edit my own question to avoid looking stupid .

You've explained it far better than I ever could. Job done.