Thrawn definitely belongs in Epic games. I would hate to see him used as a "discard" card, but it would fit with others that have been shown to us.

"Misdirection. Swap any two ships of equal base size that have not fired a weapon. Discard this crew card."

I cannot think of something Palpatine like that would give the tactical finesse Thrawn was known for. Ship movement would definitely be where he should excel. Tactically if at all possible. An alternative that might keep him in the game would be provide a free PTL effect to any ship on the board once per turn.

True, Thrawn was a tactical genius. But what made him unique from other well-known tacticians? It was the way he studied art of different species to draw out basic tendencies of his enemies so he could predict their movements better. That's why I like something that allows him to look at dials. But then you're making him a sort of glorified Intelligence Agent. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

What would be neat is if he could look at an opponent's dial and then change a dial on a friendly ship at the beginning of the activation phase. As to how many he gets to look at, how many he can change, and whether he gets discarded or not, I don't know. But I think that sort of effect would really feel like Thrawn.

True, Thrawn was a tactical genius. But what made him unique from other well-known tacticians? It was the way he studied art of different species to draw out basic tendencies of his enemies so he could predict their movements better. That's why I like something that allows him to look at dials. But then you're making him a sort of glorified Intelligence Agent. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

What would be neat is if he could look at an opponent's dial and then change a dial on a friendly ship at the beginning of the activation phase. As to how many he gets to look at, how many he can change, and whether he gets discarded or not, I don't know. But I think that sort of effect would really feel like Thrawn.

If it's check one dial and change one dial, then I think that's pretty **** good. Unless he's Epic only. If he's Epic only, I'd expect at least two dials checked and two dials changed.

What if he could look at and change any dial on the table? Probably too powerful, but I like it more than just look at one change one.

Yeah, the art thing has me concerned as well. I don't see how you incorporate that part into a dogfight.... unless...

Hmm... let's see... so he studied the art of one species at a time. Have him be able to look at all the dials of an enemy race before movement dials are revealed. That would be more thematic in usage. Difficult to implement, because you would have to know what each pilot was... and the generics do not have a race associated with them.

Maybe Thrawn shouldn't come into play... but I never figured Emperor Palpatine would be a crew member on a ship involved in a dogfight... so... there is that.

What if he could look at and change any dial on the table? Probably too powerful, but I like it more than just look at one change one.

Yeah, the art thing has me concerned as well. I don't see how you incorporate that part into a dogfight.... unless...

Hmm... let's see... so he studied the art of one species at a time. Have him be able to look at all the dials of an enemy race before movement dials are revealed. That would be more thematic in usage. Difficult to implement, because you would have to know what each pilot was... and the generics do not have a race associated with them.

Maybe Thrawn shouldn't come into play... but I never figured Emperor Palpatine would be a crew member on a ship involved in a dogfight... so... there is that.

I just assumed that Thrawn knows all the pilots on the opposing force so we juts take for granted that he knows their tendencies so that he can look at their dial (which actually represents him predicting where they will go) and changing a friendly dial (representing that he actually told them where to go ahead of time). The only reason the effect happens after the planning phase is because that's the only way to look at an opponent's dial after it's set, but thematically, he's actually predicting where they'll go -- he's just really good at it.

This would be such an annoying ability to play against, though, that I would imagine it would be limited to a discard ability. So I'm more inclined to let him look at more than one dial since it only happens once in a round.

Palpatine was a better tactician and he could see really far into the future, even manipulate people with sith magic.

Nobody is a better tactician than Thrawn. Palpatine's Battle Meditation DOES make him a better fleet commander though.

Ackbar and Leia outwitted him which lead him to his death.

Leia Outwitted him by winning the loyalties of the Noghri, (not hard considering they viewed her as the Lady Vader) not on the battlefield. That is what led to his death.

And he was losing the battle before he was killed anyways. He also should've figured a Noghri would be more loyal to Leia then to himself.Thrawn = NapoleonAckbar = Wellington

But, it was so artistically done.

And he was losing the battle before he was killed anyways. He also should've figured a Noghri would be more loyal to Leia then to himself.

Thrawn = Napoleon

Ackbar = Wellington

Also if it wasn't for the Noghri Thrawn could have survived, Palleon and the Chimera did. If he had survived the next time he faced Ackbar would have been much different. Yes he was out played that battle but no tactician is perfect. "IT'S A TRAP!!!!" anyone?

Just a thought.

Also if it wasn't for the Noghri Thrawn could have survived, Palleon and the Chimera did.

I honestly don't think Thrawn would have lost the battle. Paelleon clearly didn't think so.

I think it's significant that he was killed during the battle, because he would figured out a way to turn it around if he hadn't been.

Thrawn lives and the imps win that battle. Without a doubt.

Apparently not far enough.

BUT did he really die? I mean, has any sith ever exploded? Killed by his own lightning? That's like the Elphaba and water. Or was it really his plan all along?

Also if it wasn't for the Noghri Thrawn could have survived, Palleon and the Chimera did.

I honestly don't think Thrawn would have lost the battle. Paelleon clearly didn't think so.

I think it's significant that he was killed during the battle, because he would figured out a way to turn it around if he hadn't been.

I completely agree. So like I said Leia only outwitted him because of the Noghri being her version of a Wookie Life Debt. (Whole Planet debt to entire family line vs. Single Wookie to single family (for those that do not know))

Thrawn even surviving that battle changes the entire course of the rest of the EU. Can you Imagine him against the Vong?

Apparently not far enough.

BUT did he really die? I mean, has any sith ever exploded? Killed by his own lightning? That's like the Elphaba and water. Or was it really his plan all along?

We will probably find out in December.

Apparently not far enough.

BUT did he really die? I mean, has any sith ever exploded? Killed by his own lightning? That's like the Elphaba and water. Or was it really his plan all along?

I think Zahn got that from RoTJ when Palpatine exploded after being thrown down the shaft. I rather liked the explanation that if you're so full of Dark Side energy it is released in an explosion when you die.

Thrawn even surviving that battle changes the entire course of the rest of the EU. Can you Imagine him against the Vong?

He'd be awesome, but is there really any Vong art for him to study?

Apparently not far enough.

BUT did he really die? I mean, has any sith ever exploded? Killed by his own lightning? That's like the Elphaba and water. Or was it really his plan all along?

We will probably find out in December.

I'm sure on December we'll find out he never existed.

Apparently not far enough.

BUT did he really die? I mean, has any sith ever exploded? Killed by his own lightning? That's like the Elphaba and water. Or was it really his plan all along?

I think Zahn got that from RoTJ when Palpatine exploded after being thrown down the shaft. I rather liked the explanation that if you're so full of Dark Side energy it is released in an explosion when you die.

Thrawn even surviving that battle changes the entire course of the rest of the EU. Can you Imagine him against the Vong?

He'd be awesome, but is there really any Vong art for him to study?

Everything they did was art. Organic, but still art.

BUT did he really die? I mean, has any sith ever exploded? Killed by his own lightning? That's like the Elphaba and water. Or was it really his plan all along?

Well, he DID make clones of himself.

Of course, so did Thrawn. The ending of the Hand of Thrawn series was so disappointing because they set it up like Thrawn was coming back. But then Luke had to go and **** it all up!

Not even on purpose! Just wrecking the place while fighting the security system!

I liked it, gave it closure.

I liked it, gave it closure.

I don't want closure! I want Thrawn back!

But that's probably exactly why Zahn did it. He knew with cloning in the universe, some other writer could bring back Thrawn, so he wrote a story where Thrawn set that up exactly and then had the clones destroyed. Because he didn't want anyone else bringing back Thrawn.

I find cloning tiresome plot device. Because even if they cloned thawn, it still wouldn't hold a candle to the original article, in the same way that most clone troopers were not the mercenary for hire jango. Luuke was another example of clones not really working, though force sensitivity compounded that.

I would say that Thawn was outright a better tactician in the same sense that palp was a unparalleled scheming politician, sure palpatine evidently had battle meditation, but it had nothing to do with tactics but rather he made his men fight better. Arguably the Death Star 2 ambush was actually hugely detrimental to the empire simply because he todo them not to engage, allowing the rebellion to directly engage the star destroyers up close to deny their otherwise superior firepower.

Thawn was just sangificantly more adaptable then old palp because he planned in response to the foe, a strat very few imperial officers ever considered. The fact that people like ozzel was able to become officers at all is reflective of how close minded most imperial officers were.

Palpatine and Tarkin were huge on intimidation. Thrawn just worried about winning.

I think there was also a point where Thrawn was ordered to do something, he told the Emperor to shove it because it would be a waste of men and ships, the Emperor had someone else do it, it failed massively and then the Emperor started listening to Thrawn on when something is a waste

He'd be awesome, but is there really any Vong art for him to study?

Knowing Thrawn originally came from the Outer Regions it seems likely that at some point the Chiss Ascendancy would have encountered Zonama Sekot (Rogue Planet) at some point in their explorations. That theoretically could have given him time to study the world that ultimately gave birth to the Vong culture. Of course that knowledge would be incomplete/tempered by the unforeseen creation of the Warrior caste among the Vong during their journey between galaxies.

You may elect not to deploy a ship (under 25 points?) Action : place a reserve ship within 1 range band of this ship, then discard Thrawn.