While they are two different games, I prefer Armada a million fold over Xwing. Everything about this game is way better IMO.

I like Armada, but realistically, it is a bit too long. It will never have the same competitive atmosphere but more of a planned out affair something the shut up and sit down review touched on.

Can I ask what other war games you play? (other than X-Wing)

Forgottenlore, how much was 6 TIEs by Wave 1? What about before? At MSRP of course (need a commonality)

Competitively just Xwing. I have been meaning to play more Armada (which I have everything except the frigate), but when I plan for my once weekly game night on Wednesday, I weigh getting in 3 games of Xwing or 1 Armada game in I choose Xwing. The idea of playing team Armada (Where you control 1 or 2 ships) seems really fun though.

I mean wargame in general.

I am not sure what you are playing in Armada but a 300 pt game should not take all day.

Yes I will agree playing a 300pt game in Armada really doesn't take that long. Especially if you are really into it . most times Armada games are over before the sixth round.

I believe the game will hold, but I really hope they throw a bone to rebel players on wave 2 because the learning curve to playing rebels is steep compared to the synergy heavy empire. And Im not going as far as saying stuff is broken but come on seriously some of the imperial combinations are just silly, and with playing rebels well sometimes it feels FFG treated us like the bastard red headed step child of the game " no offense to gingers" I hope Rebels can start kicking more ass in wave 2 before this game shifts to Imperial Armada.

rebels already kick plenty of ass, they're just not as simple as driving up to the opponent and unloading black dice. they require more positioning finesse and foresight to keep their maneuvering options open and keeping at long range where they are clearly superior

but if rebels want to be silly like imperials, they can also already do that

People may not be happy with getting in only 1 game though... Which I honestly find wierd. Every other wargame I have played, getting a single game is is a GREAT day.

Then again I never got into X-Wing. The scale and scope is not my thing. I love the idea of having thousands of lives (imaginary of course. . . Whistles innocently) under my control of life or death. I love the idea of massive ships duking it out, each Admiral "dog fighting" on such a large scale. . .

I think part of what makes the gameplay seem long are RTS video games. Much more than an hour is a long time to play a single game in that format. 2-3 hours, or more if you are picking a fleet is a really long time. Plus there is a lot of setup and tears own in this game, compared to computer games.

I think part of what makes the gameplay seem long are RTS video games. Much more than an hour is a long time to play a single game in that format. 2-3 hours, or more if you are picking a fleet is a really long time. Plus there is a lot of setup and tears own in this game, compared to computer games.

Set up and tear down is simple. Just keep things organized

I believe the game will hold, but I really hope they throw a bone to rebel players on wave 2 because the learning curve to playing rebels is steep compared to the synergy heavy empire. And Im not going as far as saying stuff is broken but come on seriously some of the imperial combinations are just silly, and with playing rebels well sometimes it feels FFG treated us like the bastard red headed step child of the game " no offense to gingers" I hope Rebels can start kicking more ass in wave 2 before this game shifts to Imperial Armada.

I agree. Against a competent Imperial player, a Rebel fleet is at a disadvantage. I've beat Imperials a few times as Rebels, but I can firmly say it was only due to player skill. We have a guy at our local club, he plays strictly Imperials and he's very good. Rebels have never beat him. ever.

Sadly, I just don't think that wave 2 will help completely end the sadness. It may dry the tears a little, but I don't see Home One coming out on top against an Imperial class.

I believe the game will hold, but I really hope they throw a bone to rebel players on wave 2 because the learning curve to playing rebels is steep compared to the synergy heavy empire. And Im not going as far as saying stuff is broken but come on seriously some of the imperial combinations are just silly, and with playing rebels well sometimes it feels FFG treated us like the bastard red headed step child of the game " no offense to gingers" I hope Rebels can start kicking more ass in wave 2 before this game shifts to Imperial Armada.

I agree. Against a competent Imperial player, a Rebel fleet is at a disadvantage. I've beat Imperials a few times as Rebels, but I can firmly say it was only due to player skill. We have a guy at our local club, he plays strictly Imperials and he's very good. Rebels have never beat him. ever.

Sadly, I just don't think that wave 2 will help completely end the sadness. It may dry the tears a little, but I don't see Home One coming out on top against an Imperial class.

I believe the game will hold, but I really hope they throw a bone to rebel players on wave 2 because the learning curve to playing rebels is steep compared to the synergy heavy empire. And Im not going as far as saying stuff is broken but come on seriously some of the imperial combinations are just silly, and with playing rebels well sometimes it feels FFG treated us like the bastard red headed step child of the game " no offense to gingers" I hope Rebels can start kicking more ass in wave 2 before this game shifts to Imperial Armada.

I agree. Against a competent Imperial player, a Rebel fleet is at a disadvantage. I've beat Imperials a few times as Rebels, but I can firmly say it was only due to player skill. We have a guy at our local club, he plays strictly Imperials and he's very good. Rebels have never beat him. ever.

Sadly, I just don't think that wave 2 will help completely end the sadness. It may dry the tears a little, but I don't see Home One coming out on top against an Imperial class.

I think this will be somewhat true. The MC80 will require more of that finesse that everyone is talking about. The side arcs are where it's firepower lies and it must maneuver not only to fire out of those arcs but, to try to protect that arc. Rebel players will be exposing a very wide target to the enemy.

I'll bet we hear a few Imperial players shout, "Concentrate all firepower on that MC80!" And just watch the gladiators and raiders converge on that big target.

I'm just SO excited for wave 2, I can feel it.....

I believe the game will hold, but I really hope they throw a bone to rebel players on wave 2 because the learning curve to playing rebels is steep compared to the synergy heavy empire. And Im not going as far as saying stuff is broken but come on seriously some of the imperial combinations are just silly, and with playing rebels well sometimes it feels FFG treated us like the bastard red headed step child of the game " no offense to gingers" I hope Rebels can start kicking more ass in wave 2 before this game shifts to Imperial Armada.

I agree. Against a competent Imperial player, a Rebel fleet is at a disadvantage. I've beat Imperials a few times as Rebels, but I can firmly say it was only due to player skill. We have a guy at our local club, he plays strictly Imperials and he's very good. Rebels have never beat him. ever.

Sadly, I just don't think that wave 2 will help completely end the sadness. It may dry the tears a little, but I don't see Home One coming out on top against an Imperial class.

Yep, got a guy like that in my area as well....makes for some sad days....makes me want to seek out people who are new to the game like me. So I feel that I can feel like an equal on a game.. Kinda getting burnt out on playing against screed and howlrunner and soontir and the super duper Gladiator face **** machine.....

I think part of what makes the gameplay seem long are RTS video games. Much more than an hour is a long time to play a single game in that format. 2-3 hours, or more if you are picking a fleet is a really long time. Plus there is a lot of setup and tears own in this game, compared to computer games.

Wait. . . People build their fleets on the spot? I am coming up with ideas and concepts constantly and putting them down on my phones BattleScribe. . . I thought everyone did things like that. . .

Set up and tear down is simple. Just keep things organized

It is what I do. I have all my lists pre loaded on battle scribe and already have my cards, upgrades, and fighters pre set before a game. It takes me no time to set up and ready to rock....Time management and organisation It's a habit that hasn't left me from my days in the ARMY.

So you have one guy that beats everybody else, and your immediate thought is not that he is just better then other players? Instead you immediately proceed to Rebels are horrible and need to be fixed. Yeah, I do not at all agree with that position and absolutely do think that if you continue that line of reasoning that player will just continue to dominate your area.

So you have one guy that beats everybody else, and your immediate thought is not that he is just better then other players? Instead you immediately proceed to Rebels are horrible and need to be fixed. Yeah, I do not at all agree with that position and absolutely do think that if you continue that line of reasoning that player will just continue to dominate your area.

In Portland we are doing an escalation league that started at 180 and every 2 weeks we bummed it another 40 points. This gave us all a chance to learn strengths and weaknesses of our ships. Now in this league, I play rebels one week and Imperials the other. This let's me see what issues pop up and how to combat such things.

So you have one guy that beats everybody else, and your immediate thought is not that he is just better then other players? Instead you immediately proceed to Rebels are horrible and need to be fixed. Yeah, I do not at all agree with that position and absolutely do think that if you continue that line of reasoning that player will just continue to dominate your area.

No you are the one making that assessment on my post, I and other players have stated that a competent and competitive player has a bigger advantage and not only including the already heavy synergy of the imperial faction in this game and it is really bad when you have someone who takes joy in beating learning players. So would you be the type of guy who if asked to teach a new player to the game, would you bring out all the possible nasty combinations that the imperial faction has to offer like Screed, super Demolisher, howlrunner and soontir? Or would you try to tone it down to a something suitable for a beginner to play against? You see if you are bringing out your best stuff that you know is just nasty and you a playing someone who is just learning the game then yeah I would consider that just kinda a jerk move. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has seen this...hell I know I'm not.

Just say only one upgrade per ship or even no upgrades with new players and then go from there....

So you have one guy that beats everybody else, and your immediate thought is not that he is just better then other players? Instead you immediately proceed to Rebels are horrible and need to be fixed. Yeah, I do not at all agree with that position and absolutely do think that if you continue that line of reasoning that player will just continue to dominate your area.

And another thing, I never once said Rebels are horrible... That's you putting words in my mouth and I don't appreciate it. If anything that I'm trying to say is that they lack something. And yes I'm pretty **** new to the game and yes I'm still learning but the more games I play the more I learn and yea after a few games yea I still believe the rebels lack something. Your stating that I just threw my arms up in the air and said Rebels ******* suck so why play them......yea this is the point where I'm just going to ignore you.

So you have one guy that beats everybody else, and your immediate thought is not that he is just better then other players? Instead you immediately proceed to Rebels are horrible and need to be fixed. Yeah, I do not at all agree with that position and absolutely do think that if you continue that line of reasoning that player will just continue to dominate your area.

No you are the one making that assessment on my post, I and other players have stated that a competent and competitive player has a bigger advantage and not only including the already heavy synergy of the imperial faction in this game and it is really bad when you have someone who takes joy in beating learning players. So would you be the type of guy who if asked to teach a new player to the game, would you bring out all the possible nasty combinations that the imperial faction has to offer like Screed, super Demolisher, howlrunner and soontir? Or would you try to tone it down to a something suitable for a beginner to play against? You see if you are bringing out your best stuff that you know is just nasty and you a playing someone who is just learning the game then yeah I would consider that just kinda a jerk move. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has seen this...hell I know I'm not.

I don't play games that are so broken as to create a NPE for a reasonable player solely on the basis of me bringing out actual real builds. Do you really think that's what this game is?

If you want to learn to beat a Demolisher, you need to play against a Demolisher. Since you are going to see a Demolisher in pretty much any real Imperial list at this point, it makes absolutely no sense to not get games in against it. Unless you don't actually want to get better against it that is.

And the reason I believe that you are throwing your arms in the air over the situation is because your outburst laden posts, read as if you are throwing your arms in the air. Rebels are the red headed step child to the synergy laden Imperials or am I misqouting you there?

If you'd like to ignore me please go right ahead it certainly will not bother me if you do so.

The litmus test for this would be the results of the 2015 World Championships. A diverse top ten would be a great portent for things to come.

I don't really count X Wing or IA as wargames, though.

What is your rationale behind this?

These are wargames, they do tick all the boxes!

So you have one guy that beats everybody else, and your immediate thought is not that he is just better then other players? Instead you immediately proceed to Rebels are horrible and need to be fixed. Yeah, I do not at all agree with that position and absolutely do think that if you continue that line of reasoning that player will just continue to dominate your area.

No you are the one making that assessment on my post, I and other players have stated that a competent and competitive player has a bigger advantage and not only including the already heavy synergy of the imperial faction in this game and it is really bad when you have someone who takes joy in beating learning players. So would you be the type of guy who if asked to teach a new player to the game, would you bring out all the possible nasty combinations that the imperial faction has to offer like Screed, super Demolisher, howlrunner and soontir? Or would you try to tone it down to a something suitable for a beginner to play against? You see if you are bringing out your best stuff that you know is just nasty and you a playing someone who is just learning the game then yeah I would consider that just kinda a jerk move. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has seen this...hell I know I'm not.

Is this a demo game? No. Is my opponent and adult? Yes. Then I am not going to patronize them by bringing a list that I wouldn't normally bring. How am I helping a player get better at a game if I am using something that they won't actually ever play against? What do they gain from being given false expectations of effectiveness. That does not mean I am looking to steal a win from an unsuspecting player, I'll go over my list, why I brought what I brought, and what I plan to do to win the game with it.

I don't play games that are so broken as to create a NPE for a reasonable player solely on the basis of me bringing out actual real builds. Do you really think that's what this game is?

If you want to learn to beat a Demolisher, you need to play against a Demolisher. Since you are going to see a Demolisher in pretty much any real Imperial list at this point, it makes absolutely no sense to not get games in against it. Unless you don't actually want to get better against it that is.

And the reason I believe that you are throwing your arms in the air over the situation is because your outburst laden posts, read as if you are throwing your arms in the air. Rebels are the red headed step child to the synergy laden Imperials or am I misqouting you there?

If you'd like to ignore me please go right ahead it certainly will not bother me if you do so.

You are still not getting it ...and at this point I'm not going to try to explain it to you anymore. You are still twisting everything I have written out of context.

I still believe the rebels lack something.

What do you think the Rebels lack?

The game is asymmetrical, so there are differences in the fleets, but there is no noticeable reason to take Imperials over Rebels.

The Corvette and the Nebulon-B are quite capable of dishing out more red dice than an imperial player at long range and fast enough to avoid getting into short range unless they get greedy. At long range with a Concentrate Fire Command these will probably do enough to have a VSD in a world of hurt.

Ask yourself what are the victory conditions of the game. If he is spending 297 points on his fleet bid 296 points and go second, if you have 5 ships and he has 2 you will move a good number after him and not have anything to guess about. As first player he sets up his first ship before you do anything, you have handed him 3 terrible choices for missions and if you think about the obstacles you can make his life harder. You can almost fly over and past any obstacles the VSD has trouble moving past a set of obstacles, perhaps you can have him set up his VSD on one side and teh GSD on the other?

If this Imperial player is taking the same fleet over and over, what is that fleet? Think of ways to leverage that knowledge against him. (I think this is where ScottieATF is noticing a flaw with what is happening and like him I say "A good tradesman doesn't blame his tools.") I think the Rebels have a good solid basis for a few fleet archetypes that are quite competitive. Corvette Spam, Snipper Spam (4+ Nebs) and the Gallant Haven and Aces. Don't expect wave 2 to help you here, quite honestly wave 2 will present more choices for all sides and more problems. If he is doing something over and over and winning it isn't him that needs to change or learn. I don't think there is a magic bullet here, you just have to set it up and figure it out.

Understand that running into the middle of an Imperial fleet is going to be a great way to lose you have to flank and move to keep the smallest possible number of ships he has shooting at yours while maximising what you shoot back. Question to ask yourself before you do anything is what do I need to win, is this it? If you are 6 points behind on turn 6 do you go after his GSD or after the Tie Fighter?

A Nebulon-B with 2 Blue Anti-Squadron Dice, 3 Red to the Front upgraded with XI7 Turbolasers and Intel Officer will be a major pain to the VSD/GSD – understand that at speed 3 it can yaw 2 left and yaw 2 right in a couple of combinations, using a Nav Command. So you can keep a ship at arms length for a turn or two by using the Nebulon-Hokey-Pokey. Practice this and you'll find you can easily double arc a VSD.

Finally you aim isn’t to kill everything. I don’t think I have tabled my opponent in any of our games. Your aim is to kill enough, and play the mission just enough as to be ahead on points after the 6th turn. Your goal may well be NOT to even allow the VSD/GSD to come close to a kill. As a Rebel player you control the tempo of the fight, you have good long range gear, fast ships and robust squadrons. If you are just rushing in to kill your opponent off you are removing the key advantage you have and handing it right back to the Imperial player.

I think this current argument is silly.

If you crush your opponents and don't go about helping them, teaching them ways they could improve, you will end up with a very small player base. That is BAD for a new game like this.

Now on to Rebels. They really don't lack much. They have a medium ship that can take hits, they have fast small ships that can deal annoying amounts of damage, and they have a lot of synergy that Ness to be fleshed out more.

Imperials are not a point and click set up either. Your squadrons have great synergy bit need to be backed by a flag ship. The speed demon GSD needs support and can be taken out if left alone easily enough.

I can't wait until online versions of the game come out so I can prove this over and over again.

I'm reasonably sure people play on Vassal already.

I'm reasonably sure people play on Vassal already.